How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

floggg · 21-02-2015 02:27AM

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

Obviously, I'm for equality.

I have issues with marriage - but that's for another debate. I've went from abstaining to voting yes.

Thank you. Really hope you do get out to vote. You don't know what it will mean to wake up on the 23rd and to know your country believes you equal - and how crushing it would be to wake up to a no vote and realise they don't!

joe912 · 21-02-2015 11:02PM

floggg wrote: »

Thank you. Really hope you do get out to vote. You don't know what it will mean to wake up on the 23rd and to know your country believes you equal - and how crushing it would be to wake up to a no vote and realise they don't!

everybody is equal just some people are more equal than others.

21-02-2015 11:06PM

joe912 wrote: »

gay adoption something I have a problem with

So you are basing your vote on one thing - on the actions of the government on an entirely unrelated issue. How odd.

Not sure what is wrong with "gay adoption" anyway, especially given it is perfectly legal and so forth already.

joe912 wrote: »

I also believe it would be naïve to think that a child being brought up by a gay couple wouldn't be subjected to abuse from their peers.

I think it naive to expect they will. Go over to the Boards.ie AMA forum for a start where one of our very users brought up by two mothers experienced no such abuse.

What is naive is thinking that bullies and abusive peers pick targets based on things like this. Such cowards pick targets first - and reasons second. They will pick a person who is vulnerable to abuse. Simple as that. Whether they happen to have glasses - a lisp - red hair - gay parents - a handicap - acne - or whatever else is incidental data that comes second.

joe912 wrote: »

The condescending attitude of the yes side doesn't help.

I have not witnessed any of note - but it is irrelevant either way. If you let the attitudes of others influence your vote - then you have abandoned reason and are merely voting on a grudge. Do not be so easily swayed intellectually - because all it would take to swing your vote is for someone to "poe" the side they disagree with and you will fall in line like a sheep. BOTH sides have their arrogant - their abusive - and their condescension. If you are noting it in one side only then your bias is clear and your decision is already made. What people tend to do is choose their side first - then selectively notice the "attitudes" of the other side second.

Mark Tapley · 21-02-2015 11:20PM

joe912 wrote: »

everybody is equal just some people are more equal than others.

Seems an odd quote. Isn't that how the pigs tried to justify their corruption.

Sonics2k · 21-02-2015 11:41PM

joe912 wrote: »

I would have no problem with gays or lesbians marrying although I imagine being able to get married will leave it less attractive to them. I was initaially not going to vote as I don't ccare enough to bother. I am however going to vote no because the government have decided that they are smarter than the rest of us by bringing in legislation regarding gay adoption something I have a problem with, mostly that hetro couples will be overlooked in favour of gay couples to avoid discriminating against people on the basis of their sexual orientation (despite doing exactly that). I also believe it would be naïve to think that a child being brought up by a gay couple wouldn't be subjected to abuse from their peers.

I was raised by a lesbian couple and recently did an AMA on boards.ie about it.

Before jumping to conclusions about being bullied as a child, why not have a read of it for some first hand experience.

aloyisious · 23-02-2015 03:16AM

joe912 wrote: »

I would have no problem with gays or lesbians marrying although I imagine being able to get married will leave it less attractive to them. I was initaially not going to vote as I don't ccare enough to bother. I am however going to vote no because the government have decided that they are smarter than the rest of us by bringing in legislation regarding gay adoption something I have a problem with, mostly that hetro couples will be overlooked in favour of gay couples to avoid discriminating against people on the basis of their sexual orientation (despite doing exactly that). I also believe it would be naïve to think that a child being brought up by a gay couple wouldn't be subjected to abuse from their peers.

By your quote (despite doing exactly that) do you mean you see that the boards making decisions on adoptions of children are currently discriminating against gay people in favour of heterosexual people?

When you wrote "I also believe it would be naïve to think that a child being brought up by a gay couple wouldn't be subjected to abuse from their peers" did you not see that that is active discrimination against children themselves by their peers?

There is one thing you seem to be mixing up when it comes to adoption of children, that is the decisions with regard to (A) gay people and (B) gay couples. Gay people singular are allowed to adopt. Gay couples (as units) are not currently allowed to jointly adopt children. Gay couples, similar to heterosexual couples, are currently raising children in family-type units.

The only difference is that the current law on adoption discriminates in favour of heterosexual couples and that is what the Govt plan to change in it's new adoption legislation bill.

if I read you correctly, you are going to compound the discrimination you perceive in (A) adoption board decisions against gay people and (B) that against the children by their peers (other children) being brought up by gay couples by (C) voting to continue the current discrimination against the gay couples on a third ground: denial of access to civil marriage.

Your other quote "everybody is equal just some people are more equal than others" is exactly how the current laws on access to civil marriage and adoption of children discriminate in favour of heterosexual couples as distinct from gay couples.

Love2love · 23-02-2015 01:40PM

10989160_10152988998365219_104344109289862964_n.jpg
Not sure if these have been posted on this thread yet, I've gone back a couple of pages and haven't seen anything.

These were handed out in the RDS at the weekend.

I can't see this doing any good for the opposition side to be honest.

shruikan2553 · 23-02-2015 01:45PM

Love2love wrote: »

10989160_10152988998365219_104344109289862964_n.jpg
Not sure if these have been posted on this thread yet, I've gone back a couple of pages and haven't seen anything.

These were handed out in the RDS at the weekend.

I can't see this doing any good for the opposition side to be honest.

I find it strange its such a bad thing and yet so few people want it according to them.

Wouldn't voting against SSM for religious reasons be closer to sharia law?

OldNotWIse · 23-02-2015 01:58PM

Love2love wrote: »

10989160_10152988998365219_104344109289862964_n.jpg
Not sure if these have been posted on this thread yet, I've gone back a couple of pages and haven't seen anything.

These were handed out in the RDS at the weekend.

I can't see this doing any good for the opposition side to be honest.

lol, it actually reads like a parody. "Same sex people will get cancer earlier in life" - what the actual? Things like this only serve to highlight the idiocy of the no campaign. They are not doing themselves any favours. I notice the "to donate" section at the bottom too. Sure can't they ask the church for money?

Savage Tyrant · 23-02-2015 02:02PM

Boiled down to its bare bones, Marriage is really a declaration.
Declaring that 2 people have made a deep connection and as such have decided to continue life's journey as team. To share the journey and the benefits of having such a close bond partner by your side in the good times, and to share any burden that arises in the bad times.
Why should the legal side of that declaration be denied to anybody based upon the fact their partner just happens to have a bit too much penis (or vagina) for other peoples liking?
If you don't really like or get the idea of gay marriage, then by all means, don't go marrying a gay person yourself..... But don't deny other consenting, happy adults that right.

Zubeneschamali · 23-02-2015 02:03PM

Love2love wrote: »

I can't see this doing any good for the opposition side to be honest.

I was wondering if it was an anti-No parody, but it seems to be genuine, you can download it from adfam.ie

They really are that deranged.

OldNotWIse · 23-02-2015 02:07PM

To everyone using the "wont someone please think about the children" line - ever cross your worried minds that children who are bullied because their parents are SS are bullied by children of hetero couples? Why not try to address this instead of looking at the problem from an anti-gay stance? If hetero couples didn't raise their children to be so small minded and judgmental, there wouldnt be this problem.

Love2love · 23-02-2015 02:12PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I was wondering if it was an anti-No parody, but it seems to be genuine, you can download it from adfam.ie

They really are that deranged.

Truly!

Statisically they are more subject to Alcholism, illegal drug abuse, depressesion & suicide

Yes because of f*cktards like you....

arayess · 23-02-2015 02:29PM

OldNotWIse wrote: »

To everyone using the "wont someone please think about the children" line - ever cross your worried minds that children who are bullied because their parents are SS are bullied by children of hetero couples? Why not try to address this instead of looking at the problem from an anti-gay stance? If hetero couples didn't raise their children to be so small minded and judgmental, there wouldnt be this problem.

stupid point.

It is silly to think parents beliefs have any baring on what their kids tease or bully other kids on.

You thinking living with cool hip parents who embrace all manners of social liberalism will prevent their kids being a dick?
come off it.

Savage Tyrant · 23-02-2015 02:37PM

arayess wrote: »

stupid point.

It is silly to think parents beliefs have any baring on what their kids tease or bully other kids on.

You thinking living with cool hip parents who embrace all manners of social liberalism will prevent their kids being a dick?
come off it.

It's precisely because it's seen as an abnormal family dynamic that it becomes a point for ridicule.
If children are taught from an early age that some kids have a mam and dad, and some have 2 mam's, some have 2 dad's it would be less of an issue. This includes teaching at home and in school.
It wasn't too long ago that 1 parent families were abnormal and kids would have been teased about that in school. But it has become less of an issue due to it being more common and talked about.

bodice ripper · 23-02-2015 02:40PM

arayess wrote: »

stupid point.

It is silly to think parents beliefs have any baring on what their kids tease or bully other kids on.

You thinking living with cool hip parents who embrace all manners of social liberalism will prevent their kids being a dick?
come off it.

It would have influenced me as a kid. Maybe the parents you are talking about are just **** parents.

OldNotWIse · 23-02-2015 02:41PM

arayess wrote: »

stupid point.

It is silly to think parents beliefs have any baring on what their kids tease or bully other kids on.

You thinking living with cool hip parents who embrace all manners of social liberalism will prevent their kids being a dick?
come off it.

You don't think a child's belief system/values are shaped by their upbringing? Children are like a blank canvas. It's such a huge responsibility to bring up a child. Of course they are going to be influenced by their parents. Look at the footage of little 5 and 6 year olds in America whose parents are followers of the Westboro Baptist Church. Do you think they just got up one morning and decided they'd go to a soldiers funeral and hold up a sign saying "God hates fags" - they did in their holes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k56_o9XRQFQ

aloyisious · 23-02-2015 03:21PM

arayess wrote: »

stupid point.

It is silly to think parents beliefs have any baring on what their kids tease or bully other kids on.

You thinking living with cool hip parents who embrace all manners of social liberalism will prevent their kids being a dick?
come off it.[/QUOT

You must think there is no chance of kids learning from what they see and hear in the family home at the family table (like learning by rote).

arayess · 23-02-2015 03:34PM

bodice ripper wrote: »

It would have influenced me as a kid. Maybe the parents you are talking about are just **** parents.

Influenced? but in what way.
You are influenced by parenst for sure but its' up for grabs whether you follow ,reject or adopt a neutral position on their stance.

yes of course ...they're all **** every single one of them whose children ever do or think wrong . it means the parents failed.
:rolleyes:

OldNotWIse wrote: »

You don't think a child's belief system/values are shaped by their upbringing? Children are like a blank canvas. It's such a huge responsibility to bring up a child. Of course they are going to be influenced by their parents. Look at the footage of little 5 and 6 year olds in America whose parents are followers of the Westboro Baptist Church. Do you think they just got up one morning and decided they'd go to a soldiers funeral and hold up a sign saying "God hates fags" - they did in their holes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k56_o9XRQFQ

What about all the people with racist/homopobe parents?
They don't all follow the same mantra even as kids.

bodice ripper · 23-02-2015 03:36PM

arayess wrote: »

Influenced? but in what way.
You are influenced by parenst for sure but its' up for grabs whether you follow ,reject or adopt a neutral position on their stance.

yes of course ...they're all **** every single one of them whose children ever do or think wrong . it means the parents failed.
:rolleyes:

What about all the people with racist/homopobe parents?
They don't all follow the same mantra even as kids.

When in doubt, make some **** up to reply to.

floggg · 23-02-2015 03:49PM

Savage Tyrant wrote: »

Boiled down to its bare bones, Marriage is really a declaration.
Declaring that 2 people have made a deep connection and as such have decided to continue life's journey as team. To share the journey and the benefits of having such a close bond partner by your side in the good times, and to share any burden that arises in the bad times.
Why should the legal side of that declaration be denied to anybody based upon the fact their partner just happens to have a bit too much penis (or vagina) for other peoples liking?
If you don't really like or get the idea of gay marriage, then by all means, don't go marrying a gay person yourself..... But don't deny other consenting, happy adults that right.

:eek::eek:

So that rules me out of marrying anybody then...

aloyisious · 23-02-2015 04:27PM

floggg wrote: »

:eek::eek:

So that rules me out of marrying anybody then...

What??? you're not available???? :eek:

Annasopra · 23-02-2015 05:46PM

Donegal GAA Footballer has pledged he will vote Yes and that he would be ashamed of himself if he voted no and had children in the future who turned out to be gay

https://soundcloud.com/yesequality-donegal/eamon-mcgee-pledge-to-vote-campaign-launch-yesequality

WoolyJumper · 23-02-2015 07:55PM

Thought I'd post this video. A woman who was raised by lesbian parents makes a good point about how all these "pro family" anti gay campaigns have a negative impact on children in gay headed families.

The no side, who claim to be pro children are forgetting that the arguments they make are also hurtful to the children raised by gay parents, single parents and any other situation outside the "norm"

OldNotWIse · 24-02-2015 10:39AM

WoolyJumper wrote: »

Thought I'd post this video. A woman who was raised by lesbian parents makes a good point about how all these "pro family" anti gay campaigns have a negative impact on children in gay headed families.

The no side, who claim to be pro children are forgetting that the arguments they make are also hurtful to the children raised by gay parents, single parents and any other situation outside the "norm"

"Homophobia is the only thing that damages children of gay parents". Never a truer word

OldNotWIse · 24-02-2015 10:54AM

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-hello-same-sex-marriage-bye-bye-mammy-could-be-no-campaign-message-1.2114313

"They know very well that in Ireland a quarter of all children are already being raised by single mothers, and that insulting those women (and their extended families) is not a winning strategy. It’s the notion of men bringing up children without a mother that is the exposed nerve.

At a rational level, this makes for a crazy distinction – it is an appeal, not against same-sex marriage, but against gay men being allowed to raise children. Two lesbian women raising a child would be fine by this criterion and we know, of course, that it’s not actually fine with conservatives. But we know, too, that to defeat a referendum you don’t have to be logically consistent. You just have to play on enough people’s nerves for doubt to enter their minds. It will not be sufficient for those who want a Yes vote to counter a powerful emotional argument with a calmly rational one."

shruikan2553 · 24-02-2015 11:01AM

How many times have families been destroyed according to these people? There was contreceptives and divorce before and they were wrong. Third times the charm eh?

OldNotWIse · 24-02-2015 11:47AM

shruikan2553 wrote: »

How many times have families been destroyed according to these people? There was contreceptives and divorce before and they were wrong. Third times the charm eh?

I believe that most of the people banging on about the sanctity of marriage and the needs of the children actually don't give a damn about either. I certainly don't see them expressing concern about any of the issues that might be perceived as a threat to marriage - rising levels of legal separation and divorce, infidelity etc., nor are they doing anything proactive to change the situation for the one in four children who suffer sexual abuse, usually at the hands of a known family member, or the countless others who suffer neglect, verbal abuse and exploitation. They prefer to run ragged shouting about gay men being paedophiles and the lesbian couple next door who will "destroy your marriage" simply by being there. The boys might play with barbies! The girls might grow up with daddy issues! No ladies and gentlemen, the "sanctity of marriage" and the "wont someone please think of the children" lines are mere scapegoats for their own homophobia and hatred. In reality, they couldn't care less about either...they are simply a stick to beat the gays with.

efb · 24-02-2015 04:49PM

Mattie mcgrath not in favour of the gay marraige it seems

joe912 · 24-02-2015 06:32PM

OldNotWIse wrote: »

I believe that most of the people banging on about the sanctity of marriage and the needs of the children actually don't give a damn about either. I certainly don't see them expressing concern about any of the issues that might be perceived as a threat to marriage - rising levels of legal separation and divorce, infidelity etc., nor are they doing anything proactive to change the situation for the one in four children who suffer sexual abuse, usually at the hands of a known family member, or the countless others who suffer neglect, verbal abuse and exploitation. They prefer to run ragged shouting about gay men being paedophiles and the lesbian couple next door who will "destroy your marriage" simply by being there. The boys might play with barbies! The girls might grow up with daddy issues! No ladies and gentlemen, the "sanctity of marriage" and the "wont someone please think of the children" lines are mere scapegoats for their own homophobia and hatred. In reality, they couldn't care less about either...they are simply a stick to beat the gays with.

you make a valid point if most children who are abused are abused by a family member and most abuse is carried out by men then regardless of homosexuality, stastically a hild will be 50% more likely to suffer abuse if both its mammy and daddy are men.

How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

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