Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Read Mod Warning in OP 7/1/15

Lord TSC · 20-02-2015 01:12PM

Liam O wrote: »

Rooney isn't being played in a position that he can effect the balance of the team positively. When he is he's the team's best player.

I won't debate "best player" since that's a matter of opinion.

I will debate the fact he affects the team positively. Even as a striker, I think he has a habit of dropping too deep (though I accept that's a problem with our midfield) and doesn't offer much more than I would expect of a striker at United should. I think he has a habit of having 90 seconds every game where he is great, but 88minutes of doing nothing at best, and being wasteful at worst.

I just honestly think we could offload him and have a striker who offers everything he does and a bit more for the same wages, etc. I don't think he is as vital as some people make him out to be, and think there are significantly better options out there for team balance.

homerjay2005 · 20-02-2015 01:14PM

keane2097 wrote: »

The squawka article posted yesterday re:Smalling was interesting at the surface level I looked at it.

Anyone happy to agree with the argument that he has been much better than common perception? Equally, anyone cast a more discerning glance over the article in question find any issues with it?

i think Smalling gets alot of unfair critism, i think he is a fine player. much better player than Jones IMO.

MagicMarker · 20-02-2015 01:15PM

keane2097 wrote: »

I don't think Rooney is the best striker at United but would think he'd be the best of the three to keep if you were going to let two go.

That doesn't make a lot of sense. If you were selling 2 out of 3 of your strikers, why would you not keep the best one?

TheDoc · 20-02-2015 01:15PM

Headshot wrote: »

Yes and the player.

We can buy much better CM or striker than Rooney. He's a hinderance at this stage for me. If he's good enough to play striker, why isnt he playing as a stirker? Surely LVG knows he's even a bigger hinderance in CM of late

I get the impression that after two failed attempts...Rooney knows there is no one else in Europe's elite that will have him at his cost.

He essentially called Mourinhos bluff at Madrid after the transfer request went in. But Madrid never came calling.

While I don't doubt Rooney grafts well and is dedicated...the synical side of me thinks he well knows he won't have it so good anywhere else...and that's why he doesn't make a fuss being out of position.

The level of Falcao and RVP this season and last has been toxic. Rooney surely is a better option up front. If he kicked up about he could get up front. I just imagine he's happy enough playing where he is asked.

On defenders..Evans has been embarrassing this season. Such promise regressed so fast. Smalling irks.me.only because he looks like a stupid player but he's been much more assuring after his sending off. Maybe the penny dropped this was his last chance.

I have time for Jones...just needs to stop injuring himself like a clown.

At present I'd have no objections to Falcao, RVP and Evans going in the summer. Plenty of football left to play so things can change.

I've been kicking the idea around in my head of Lukaku BTW. Obviously has no secret wanting to play top level football.

At 21, his critiscm is well out of whack. He has a bright future ahead of him and has impressive return for his age. I think a new striker will come in the summer...and we could do a lot worse then Lukaku .

Mitch Connor · 20-02-2015 01:15PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i think Smalling gets alot of unfair critism, i think he is a fine player. much better player than Jones IMO.

If he hadn't got sent off vs City (and had played as he did vs Chelsea, for example) people would have a much different view of his season, imo.

Pro. F · 20-02-2015 01:16PM

Headshot wrote: »

Yes and the player.

We can buy much better CM or striker than Rooney. He's a hinderance at this stage for me. If he's good enough to play striker, why isnt he playing as a stirker? Surely LVG knows he's even a bigger hinderance in CM of late

I think your dislike of Rooney's personality clouds your judgement on him as a player.

I wouldn't use LVG's selections as a reliable way of judging players. He's very prone to making mad selections to fit into what he wants from the team, rather than based on who is the best player.

What much better striker than Rooney can we buy?

nicklauski · 20-02-2015 01:20PM

I'd be keeping Smalling for sure.

Evans, happy to see the back of him now at this stage. Sad to say, I was a huge fan of Johnny and wanted to see him progress with United, I even thought he was an outside bet for captain last year!

United pursuing players on a free hardly has anything to do with the money the owe clubs all ready for players is it

Champions League is a must for LVG this year, that money coupled with the Adidas deal and United are laughing with chasing nearly who ever they want.

Lord TSC · 20-02-2015 01:21PM

TheDoc wrote: »

I've been kicking the idea around in my head of Lukaku BTW. Obviously has no secret wanting to play top level football.

At 21, his critiscm is well out of whack. He has a bright future ahead of him and has impressive return for his age. I think a new striker will come in the summer...and we could do a lot worse then Lukaku .

I was kicking names about as well when trying to figure out strikers I'd like to sign, and his name cropped up pretty quick. I know he had a good season last year but haven't heard much about him this season. How's he doing?

Mitch Connor · 20-02-2015 01:22PM

What ever attacking players we sign in the summer they need one attribute - PACE. We are a horribly slow side. The lack of pace in RVP and Falcao is a big problem for us imo. The oppo defence can push up because they know RVP and Falcao won't exploit the space in behind - so the midfield gets more congested making it more difficult for the midfielders to find space to create in.

I feel we must be looking at a forward or two for the summer, and I hope whomever we may get has a decent whack of pace - if only to open the pitch up a bit.

Maximus Alexander · 20-02-2015 01:25PM

MagicMarker wrote: »

That doesn't make a lot of sense. If you were selling 2 out of 3 of your strikers, why would you not keep the best one?

I believe what he's saying is that Rooney is not the best striker of the three, but is the best player of the three.

Younger than RVP, doesn't look damaged like Falcao, has a long history at the club, is the captain, can play deeper, etc.

Mitch Connor · 20-02-2015 01:26PM

I reckon Dybala could be the hot ticket striker this summer. Young, quick, doing very well at the moment. Will cost a lot, and being linked with a host of top clubs.

A couple of signings like Depay and Dybala could make a massive difference to United - adding real pace to the side, providing space and runs for the likes of Rooney, Mata, Di Maria, Herrera to look for and exploit.

keane2097 · 20-02-2015 01:30PM

MagicMarker wrote: »

That doesn't make a lot of sense. If you were selling 2 out of 3 of your strikers, why would you not keep the best one?

Age, robustness and adaptability make him the best player for United's squad. I'd have him as a worse striker than RVP but not by a whole heap.

Rayne Wooney · 20-02-2015 01:33PM

As much as I like Falcao he's not got the pace that we're missing up front and would cost too much to buy, ideally him and RVP will go in the summer and Rooney, Wilson and another brought in will fight for one spot/ two on occasion

Then we need to buy at least one top quality midfielder to stop the Rooney in midfield dilemma and let Mata play, a winger too, then on to defenders at the very least a centre back and right back

Will be disappointed if we don't completely change to a 433/4231 by next August, it seems to be the formation Van Gaal can get his teams playing good football regularly

TheDoc · 20-02-2015 01:56PM

Lord TSC wrote: »

I was kicking names about as well when trying to figure out strikers I'd like to sign, and his name cropped up pretty quick. I know he had a good season last year but haven't heard much about him this season. How's he doing?

Martinez put all his eggs in one basket with him. He came back from the WC and took a few weeks to get going needing rest. Then Martinez let Eto go, and Kony still isn't back for them. He's being relentlessly overworked for a 21yr old, which hasn't had a summer of in two years I think.

Playing in a struggling Everton team he is doing well. If you consider since 2012 only Suarez, Aguero and RVP have scored more goals then him, that's prestigious company.

He has had two years in the premier league scoring double figures for meh teams. At 21, he's scored more goals then pretty much any world class player had at his age, and is just shy of his 100th appearance I believe.

He seems to be getting some horrendous flack, why I don't know. A lot of it seems to be the belief he took the move to Everton cause he doesn't have the atittude for a top team, where as to me he's made the right decision, moving to get first team football and development.

We've a history of getting great return from strikers we buy already exposed to the premier league. Cavani, Dybala, Vietto, there are plenty of stellar names to tickle the tasebuds, but as I've seen with Falcao, and as we saw with Forlan, not every foreign player can adapt to this league and do well.

Lukaku would be top of my list if I'm honest. His strengths simply arn't in other likely targets, and his weakness' are all something that will come with development and experience.

It's just spitball talk in reality, I've just been following him and stuff written about him a lot lately after I read some really harsh critique before Christmas on him. Kane mania has kinda knocked him off the "hot young prospect" chart, but that is not exactly a bad thing.

TheDoc · 20-02-2015 02:01PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I reckon Dybala could be the hot ticket striker this summer. Young, quick, doing very well at the moment. Will cost a lot, and being linked with a host of top clubs.

A couple of signings like Depay and Dybala could make a massive difference to United - adding real pace to the side, providing space and runs for the likes of Rooney, Mata, Di Maria, Herrera to look for and exploit.

Dybala certainly shaping up to be this summers drama alright, considering the chairman of the club has indicated he will more then likely move. (albeit for mental money)

I don't think a lack of pace up front is fundamentally required for us. It's nice to have, but I don't think it's a real problem. More important for me is intelligent movement.

Granted this season isn't probably the best case point, but a lot of teams are sitting deep on us, allowing us do that pedestrian possesion game in front of them. There isn't actually that much space in behind the opposition back four. When we break sure, but I've noticed more regularly we have slow buildup through midfield which lets the opposition set and settle. Then we have RVP and Falcao coming deep to just have a backward layoff. Neither of them drift out wide, neither of them spin of the shoulder, they both want to get involved.

Strikers with clever movement, can drift out wide, or make space, that creates gaps for the pace of Di Maria to move through quickly.

My take on it anyway, Falcao and Van Persie are so eager to get involved they keep coming deep for ineffective lay offs, and that condenses everything into the middle and forces the lateral passing for retain possesion. If they both started to spread CB's apart, and play high up, it would provide more running space for Di Maria, and allow more influence for whoever we play at 10.

I think Vietto for Villareal really personifies what we are missing. Has a tendency to drop a little deep to get involved, but he lays of paces out wide, and then spins and breaks in towards the box. He offsets defenders, or latches onto the end of crosses whipped in from the byline. Our strikers are coming deep, laying it back to Blind or Rooney five yards, then not making the movement forward to send the Cb's running to goal. HAvn't seen much of Dybala so dno what he does.

TheDoc · 20-02-2015 02:10PM

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Will be disappointed if we don't completely change to a 433/4231 by next August, it seems to be the formation Van Gaal can get his teams playing good football regularly

4-2-3-1 always sounds immense to me.

----Carrick

Blind
-Herrera--Mata---Di Maria

Rooney----

Obviously armchair tactics from me, there must be a reason 4-2-3-1 isn't as amazing as I think it would be. Just seems to balance on paper, providing a defensive net for counter attacks while providing space and fluidity for the front 4, flanked by RB/LB to provide even more width.

ericzeking · 20-02-2015 02:10PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

What ever attacking players we sign in the summer they need one attribute - PACE. We are a horribly slow side. The lack of pace in RVP and Falcao is a big problem for us imo. The oppo defence can push up because they know RVP and Falcao won't exploit the space in behind - so the midfield gets more congested making it more difficult for the midfielders to find space to create in.

I feel we must be looking at a forward or two for the summer, and I hope whomever we may get has a decent whack of pace - if only to open the pitch up a bit.

Would prefer a midfielder (or just play Herrerra) and play Rooney up front.

Rooney is well able to stretch the play.

bangkok · 20-02-2015 02:12PM

Headshot wrote: »

Yes and the player.

We can buy much better CM or striker than Rooney. He's a hinderance at this stage for me. If he's good enough to play striker, why isnt he playing as a stirker? Surely LVG knows he's even a bigger hinderance in CM of late

As a matter of interest who would you rate as a much better striker than rooney that would be available to us? I think you are being very critical of rooney. He is playing out of position for the good of the team, not giving out just getting on with it, rooney stats for playing as a striker are very impressive

Kirby · 20-02-2015 02:14PM

Headshot wrote: »

Yes and the player.

We can buy much better CM or striker than Rooney. He's a hinderance at this stage for me. If he's good enough to play striker, why isnt he playing as a stirker? Surely LVG knows he's even a bigger hinderance in CM of late

The biggest hindrance has been LVG himself and his insistence on playing players out of position and his persistence with playing unsuitable formations.

Spazdarn · 20-02-2015 02:15PM

We could probably buy a better striker than Rooney, they do exist... but you'd be paying mental money.

TheDoc · 20-02-2015 02:15PM

ericzeking wrote: »

Would prefer a midfielder (or just play Herrerra) and play Rooney up front.

Rooney is well able to stretch the play.

If memory serves correct Rooney fell into this pattern of dropping too deep last season under Moyes and the last while under Fergie. There doesn't seem to be the consensus from three managers now, including like, 4 England managers, that his is best played in the no.10 role, or behind someone operating on the last man.

But he does have a tendancy to go all over the front line. I think there just needs to be a very clear and defined "on the last man" part of our front line. PErsonally I'd put Falcao there as I think his touch back to goal is horrendous, were as RVP can be flawless at this. Think his first season with us, the ball stuck to him like glue anytime he had it fizzed into him. Let Van Persie drop short and receive and lay off, and have Falcao constantly on the last man, prodding space and rolling off behind.

At the moment it doesn't look to be clear, with maybe the assumption one goes one stays, but both seem to do the same thing far too much.

One of the big problems for Falcao is his eagerness to get involved, has him coming short to do what his is just not as strong at. So even with RVP and Falcao both in poor form, Van Persie looks superior because he is good at controlling the ball back to goal.

If Falcao just stayed up front, and didn't get involved deep, he might have a strong excuse of being starved of service. But coming deep all the time just highlights his weakness in that area, and makes him look, to be honest, sub premier league standard.

Spazdarn · 20-02-2015 02:20PM

TheDoc wrote: »

If memory serves correct Rooney fell into this pattern of dropping too deep last season under Moyes and the last while under Fergie. There doesn't seem to be the consensus from three managers now, including like, 4 England managers, that his is best played in the no.10 role, or behind someone operating on the last man.

But he does have a tendancy to go all over the front line. I think there just needs to be a very clear and defined "on the last man" part of our front line. PErsonally I'd put Falcao there as I think his touch back to goal is horrendous, were as RVP can be flawless at this. Think his first season with us, the ball stuck to him like glue anytime he had it fizzed into him. Let Van Persie drop short and receive and lay off, and have Falcao constantly on the last man, prodding space and rolling off behind.

At the moment it doesn't look to be clear, with maybe the assumption one goes one stays, but both seem to do the same thing far too much.

One of the big problems for Falcao is his eagerness to get involved, has him coming short to do what his is just not as strong at. So even with RVP and Falcao both in poor form, Van Persie looks superior because he is good at controlling the ball back to goal.

If Falcao just stayed up front, and didn't get involved deep, he might have a strong excuse of being starved of service. But coming deep all the time just highlights his weakness in that area, and makes him look, to be honest, sub premier league standard.

Agree on the Falcao bit, if he stayed up there he'd be far more effective, points to issues creatively if the midfield aren't creating enough chances for him.

While Young has improved he's still not great, and Valencia is poor going forward, so our wingers are poor enough, everything has to go through the centre.

Herrera and Blind should be playing from the start, Rooney should be up front with one of Falcao/RVP. Januzaj should be on the wing... I know his decision making can be poor but he needs experience, and he has to potential to change games.

Lord TSC · 20-02-2015 02:22PM

Spazdarn wrote: »

We could probably buy a better striker than Rooney, they do exist... but you'd be paying mental money.

Luckily, money isn't a massive issue any more.....

20-02-2015 02:24PM

Rooney and Falcao have both shown that they have no problem doing literally no defensive duties in the last few years. Falcao has more assists for United than he had in all his time at Atletico afaik. There's a stage where you have to look at the system and not put it all down to the players.

MagicMarker · 20-02-2015 02:24PM

Lord TSC wrote: »

Luckily, money isn't a massive issue any more.....

It will be if we don't make the Champions League.

MagicMarker · 20-02-2015 02:26PM

Liam O wrote: »

Rooney and Falcao have both shown that they have no problem doing literally no defensive duties in the last few years.

Rooney gets back defending ALL the time??

Giggsy11 · 20-02-2015 02:27PM

Rooney is least of all our problems. He is our best striker by a mile and also plays/impacts game better at #10 than any of our #10s.

RVP and Falcao should be off in summer and a pacey striker should be signed. Rooney has enough pace to stretch defense, physical strength to fight off CBs. Also his finishing is great too. With proper midfield he will score loads of goals.

Kirby · 20-02-2015 02:27PM

MagicMarker wrote: »

It will be if we don't make the Champions League.

You will. I'd bet good money on it. United have been playing terribly for ages and yet are still grinding out wins. Reminds me of the last title win.

If United didn't make top 4 at this stage i'd be shocked. I'd say they are favourites out of the chasing pack.

Vic Vinegar · 20-02-2015 02:27PM

Good article from GNev about United\LvG

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/11424827/Manchester-United-fans-must-stop-pining-for-Sir-Alex-Fergusons-champagne-football-that-era-is-over.html

Lord TSC · 20-02-2015 02:32PM

MagicMarker wrote: »

It will be if we don't make the Champions League.

I still think we'd be in a grand position financially tbh; between TV deals, global sponsorships and the much flauntent Adidas deal, money shouldn't be a massive issue.

Not the prestige of playing in CL football, or not, on the other hand....

I'd still be shocked if we aren't top 4 though.

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Read Mod Warning in OP 7/1/15

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