Dublin dominates Central Council's games development budget

gaffer91 · 07-02-2015 07:06PM #1

Link

Disgraceful and utterly unjustifiable. Even if you take into account Dublin's large population the funding gap between them and other counties is completely unfair.

Dirty Dingus McGee · 07-02-2015 07:29PM

If the money to Dublin isn't going to be cut (which will do no good) then the money to every other county should be doubled.Particularly when Dublin are able to generate a lot more money from sponsorship than any other county and don't need central funding as much as other counties do.

freddiek · 08-02-2015 12:01PM

the GAA recognizes that Dublin needs an unfair advantage to be competitive and will take the necessary steps to ensure that unfair advantage is continued.

rpurfield · 08-02-2015 12:21PM

freddiek wrote: »

the GAA recognizes that Dublin needs an unfair advantage to be competitive and will take the necessary steps to ensure that unfair advantage is continued.

They really need to be looking at other Leinster teams too, a championship that is a forgone conclusion before it even starts is no use to anyone. If they won't cut Dublin they should at least be looking to bump up the rest of the Leinster counties. I honestly reckon the pick of Kildare and Meath in Navan last night wouldn't beat the Dubs, and they're ment to be the 2nd and 3rd best teams in the province.

At the same time all the money in the world will be no use if you don't have the proper people in place to make sure it's put to proper use.

Jampip · 08-02-2015 12:51PM

rpurfield wrote: »

They really need to be looking at other Leinster teams too, a championship that is a forgone conclusion before it even starts is no use to anyone. If they won't cut Dublin they should at least be looking to bump up the rest of the Leinster counties. I honestly reckon the pick of Kildare and Meath in Navan last night wouldn't beat the Dubs, and they're ment to be the 2nd and 3rd best teams in the province.

At the same time all the money in the world will be no use if you don't have the proper people in place to make sure it's put to proper use.

That's a ridiculous statement - Bump up all the counties in Leinster. What about the other three provinces?

I do feel sorry for the other Leinster teams in that Dublin is so exclusively funded but that isn't the answer.

I think year after year we are seeing that a championship based on geographical location isn't viable. The Ulster championship is the only one contested by more than two teams.

The money has been spent in Dublin. Now move that funding to counties like Leitrim and Carlow that are languishing in Division 4.

Poor_old_gill · 08-02-2015 01:04PM

This is a genuine question- given that Dublin have a sponsorship deal far in excess of probably anyone else and also have various other commercial incomes that others cant match- why is there a need to have such a large games development budget there?

I would have assumed that the need for extra money to support a lager population would be satisfied by these commercial incomes- also the hiring of Bernard Dunne as a "life coach" looks rather ridiculous

dixiefly · 08-02-2015 01:11PM

rpurfield wrote: »

They really need to be looking at other Leinster teams too, a championship that is a forgone conclusion before it even starts is no use to anyone. If they won't cut Dublin they should at least be looking to bump up the rest of the Leinster counties. I honestly reckon the pick of Kildare and Meath in Navan last night wouldn't beat the Dubs, and they're ment to be the 2nd and 3rd best teams in the province.

At the same time all the money in the world will be no use if you don't have the proper people in place to make sure it's put to proper use.

I wonder how much Meath and Kildare actually got, they are not even mentioned in the top seven.

Regarding the pick of Meath and Kildare not beating Dublin. I would suggest that the pick of meath and Kildare last night would struggle to beat Dublin's second team.:mad:

Slattsy · 08-02-2015 01:26PM

Love these threads. Who needs the Sunday tabloids?

The_Honeybadger · 08-02-2015 02:02PM

I'd go further and say the pick of the rest of Leinster would probably not beat dublin. The Leinster championship is a joke at this stage and does the dubs no favours either. The first serious opposition they faced last year blew them away, partly because they weren't used to that type of intense game after the turkey shoot they enjoyed in Leinster. That's not dublins fault of course, and they have used whatever money they have been granted very wisely to develop an excellent squad.

Rather than pulling the rug out from under Dublin now and dismantling the excellent programmes they have id much rather see an effort to bring the other counties up. A gradual reduction in Dublins funding is inevitable and they will deal with that. It's up to other counties to develop plans and make a good case for increased funding. Traditionally strong counties like Galway for example should be able to much better than recent years.

davegrohl48 · 08-02-2015 02:09PM

Don't some of the larger clubs actually have full time staff? Personal trainers in gyms being high profile players/Coaching officers? Hence aren't central funds in some ways propping that up.

Jampip · 08-02-2015 02:11PM

Slattsy wrote: »

Love these threads. Who needs the Sunday tabloids?

Would you think it's fair that Dublin gets 21 times the amount a county it has only 2.5 times the population of like Cork does?

Also, it has twice the population of Antrim but what support are they getting for development?

You can act like its sensationalism and stick your head in the sand but there's a very real problem here.

Poor_old_gill · 08-02-2015 02:18PM

Slattsy wrote: »

Love these threads. Who needs the Sunday tabloids?

Its a factual article that is being discussed- no need to insinuate some kind of conspiracy

fullstop · 08-02-2015 03:19PM

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Its a factual article that is being discussed- no need to insinuate some kind of conspiracy

Sure he thinks everything is a conspiracy against Dublin :rolleyes:

namloc1980 · 08-02-2015 05:08PM

Is that article accurate? Dublin got €1,500,000 from Central Council and the next highest allocation was €69,000 to Cork - just 4.6% of what Dublin got! Wow. That seems fair and equitable :rolleyes:

Godge · 08-02-2015 08:30PM

This is a joke of a thread.

Martin Breheny's anti-Dublin prejudice shines through in the way he manipulates the figures in the article.

(1) This is game development money, aimed at encouraging kids to play
(2) It is not a determinant of inter-county success
(3) The figures relate only to money distributed to counties directly by Central Council
(4) Most of the money is distributed through the provincial councils so the ultimate destination isn't clear.

But hey, just keep up with the typical bash-Dublin thread based on half-lies.

Jampip · 08-02-2015 08:59PM

Godge wrote: »

(1) This is game development money, aimed at encouraging kids to play
(2) It is not a determinant of inter-county success
(3) The figures relate only to money distributed to counties directly by Central Council
(4) Most of the money is distributed through the provincial councils so the ultimate destination isn't clear.

(1) why should Dublin get a budget 21 times better than Cork's? Going by population, Dublin has 2.5 times the amount of kids Cork does. Not 21 times.
(2) spending money on coaching and development will of course lead to inter county success. That is money other counties cannot spend.
(3) so the money doesn't include the millions Dublin also make in corporate sponsorship? We knew that.
(4) how is the destination not clear? The money went to Dublin GAA board. Do you propose they handed it onto Meath or Kildare?

The_Honeybadger · 08-02-2015 09:07PM

Jampip wrote: »

(1) why should Dublin get a budget 21 times better than Cork's? Going by population, Dublin has 2.5 times the amount of kids Cork does. Not 21 times.
(2) spending money on coaching and development will of course lead to inter county success. That is money other counties cannot spend.
(3) so the money doesn't include the millions Dublin also make in corporate sponsorship? We knew that.
(4) how is the destination not clear? The money went to Dublin GAA board. Do you propose they handed it onto Meath or Kildare?

Cork also get an allocation from the munster council which is not included in the article though. Omitting this makes the situation look far worse. Not sure where you'd get figures for this.

nice_guy80 · 08-02-2015 09:27PM

Don't Dublin also get funds from Leinster GAA?

Cork GAA has the most clubs. They should definitely have better coaching development systems in place.

Every county should be entitled to a certain level of funding to provide support to clubs and county development squads.

Eg Longford and Westmeath get more or less equal funding. However, Westmeath have hurling squads from U12 up to Senior. Longford barely has a senior hurling team (the county boards fault).

bruschi · 09-02-2015 11:19AM

those figures are from central council, they do not include money received from Provincial councils. Dublin do not get 21 times what Cork get. I'd prefer to see proper figures of money received by counties before going on some mad rant. This article is seriously inaccurate in its conclusions, regardless of the sparse facts it does use.

I do agree however that Dublin get far too much in comparison to other counties, but at least base that opinion on proper figures.

mooonpie · 09-02-2015 11:26AM

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Don't Dublin also get funds from Leinster GAA?

Not according to the article:

Effectively, Dublin are treated as a province for games development purposes. The coaches are employed directly by the Dublin County Board, whereas coaches in the rest of the country are paid by the provincial councils.

howiya · 09-02-2015 11:58AM

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Don't Dublin also get funds from Leinster GAA?

Cork GAA has the most clubs. They should definitely have better coaching development systems in place.

Every county should be entitled to a certain level of funding to provide support to clubs and county development squads.

Eg Longford and Westmeath get more or less equal funding. However, Westmeath have hurling squads from U12 up to Senior. Longford barely has a senior hurling team (the county boards fault).

Dublin coaching project received 241,050 in 2014 out of a total spend of 4,263,504 on Games Development by the Leinster Council

Figures contained here - http://www.leinstergaa.ie/_fileupload/Leinster%20Accounts%202014.pdf

Cork aren't a good example. Look at the money they are receiving for the redevelopment of Frank's field. Perhaps they should be investing that in coaching and development as Donal Óg said on the Sunday Game the night they were hammered by Tipp.

Lastly Dublin weren't just handed this money. They went to the GAA with a plan for investing in the future of gaelic games in the county. How many other counties have done this?

Why are there no articles about counties being refused money instead of articles about how much Dublin got?

bruschi · 09-02-2015 06:19PM

howiya wrote: »

Dublin coaching project received 241,050 in 2014 out of a total spend of 4,263,504 on Games Development by the Leinster Council

Figures contained here - http://www.leinstergaa.ie/_fileupload/Leinster%20Accounts%202014.pdf

Cork aren't a good example. Look at the money they are receiving for the redevelopment of Frank's field. Perhaps they should be investing that in coaching and development as Donal Óg said on the Sunday Game the night they were hammered by Tipp.

Lastly Dublin weren't just handed this money. They went to the GAA with a plan for investing in the future of gaelic games in the county. How many other counties have done this?

Why are there no articles about counties being refused money instead of articles about how much Dublin got?

thats a complete misnomer of an argument. Pretty mcuh every county has a development plan and go to council for funds. Off hand, I have seen Kilkennys, Wexfords, Louths and Longfords development plans, but no additional funds were provided for any of them.

People seem to think like this is some sort of competition, come up with the best plan and we'll allocate the money. It doesnt, and didnt work like that. The GAA in conjunction with Dublin, came up with a development plan, included in which was a €5 million investment into hurling. It was a one off investment into a development, not something that was available for others to compete for.

This argument has been brought up before to defend the money given to Dublin as if other counties should get off their hole and have a plan like theirs. They have done, and have produced and implemented them, but it wasnt part of an overall GAA strategic plan and thus wasnt given additional funds.

deadybai · 10-02-2015 06:33PM

So why is it that Dublin avail of so much funds from the GAA? I cant understand how people can sit there and defend it when the amount Dublin receive is over 1 million more than the next county. Its obviously unfair no matter what the money is for.

However, you dont hear anyone really complaining about it. So there must be an explanation as to why they get so much?

Thankfully it doesnt bother me that much being from Kilkenny but you have to feel for counties like Kildare, Meath, Wicklow Antrim etc.

nxbyveromdwjpg · 10-02-2015 07:18PM

deadybai wrote: »

However, you dont hear anyone really complaining about it.

Seriously?

Godge · 13-02-2015 01:32PM

deadybai wrote: »

So why is it that Dublin avail of so much funds from the GAA? I cant understand how people can sit there and defend it when the amount Dublin receive is over 1 million more than the next county. Its obviously unfair no matter what the money is for.

However, you dont hear anyone really complaining about it. So there must be an explanation as to why they get so much?

Thankfully it doesnt bother me that much being from Kilkenny but you have to feel for counties like Kildare, Meath, Wicklow Antrim etc.

It is population and number of children playing it that determines why they get so much money.

Somewhere like Blanchardstown with clubs like Brigids, Erin go Bragh, Peregrines, Castleknock, Westmanstown Gaels probably has as many kids playing as full counties.

BonnieSituation · 13-02-2015 05:39PM

Not to cross-pollinate with commentary from other sports. But the recent addition of Cabinteely to the League of Ireland caused ructions among people who complained that we had "yet another Dublin club". Whilst I would agree anecdotally that we don't need another Dublin club in the LOI I think that when the desire provincially for another LOI club in say, Mayo or Kerry isn't there, the FAI have no real choice but to accept that another club from the capital.

But when you look at the figures on it you realise that the addition of Cabinteely means that Dublin has the right amount of clubs v population of the State. (30% clubs v 28% of State population)

Some people see Dublin as "a county" on a par say with Leitrim (population 28,000) when the county itself has 51% of the Leinster population as a whole and then within the GDA 39% of the State population or the exact same population as the whole of Fermanagh, Armagh, Tyrone, Derry, Antrim and Down COMBINED!

I think in all these arguments people forget just how big Dublin is and that it gets funded with multiples of other counties is a result of these chasms in population differential.

Jampip · 15-02-2015 11:42AM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Not to cross-pollinate with commentary from other sports. But the recent addition of Cabinteely to the League of Ireland caused ructions among people who complained that we had "yet another Dublin club". Whilst I would agree anecdotally that we don't need another Dublin club in the LOI I think that when the desire provincially for another LOI club in say, Mayo or Kerry isn't there, the FAI have no real choice but to accept that another club from the capital.

But when you look at the figures on it you realise that the addition of Cabinteely means that Dublin has the right amount of clubs v population of the State. (30% clubs v 28% of State population)

Some people see Dublin as "a county" on a par say with Leitrim (population 28,000) when the county itself has 51% of the Leinster population as a whole and then within the GDA 39% of the State population or the exact same population as the whole of Fermanagh, Armagh, Tyrone, Derry, Antrim and Down COMBINED!

I think in all these arguments people forget just how big Dublin is and that it gets funded with multiples of other counties is a result of these chasms in population differential.

Belfast has half the population of Dublin. If population is the big decider, why aren't Antrim getting a lot more?

Also, you name six counties there. If they combined have the same population as Dublin, why don't the funds paid to the six of them equal that paid to Dublin?

howiya · 15-02-2015 01:33PM

Jampip wrote: »

Belfast has half the population of Dublin. If population is the big decider, why aren't Antrim getting a lot more?

Also, you name six counties there. If they combined have the same population as Dublin, why don't the funds paid to the six of them equal that paid to Dublin?

From the link in the OP's post

"However, the other 31 counties receive support from their provincial councils for funding coaches and other promotional activities.

Effectively, Dublin are treated as a province for games development purposes. The coaches are employed directly by the Dublin County Board, whereas coaches in the rest of the country are paid by the provincial councils."

gaffer91 · 15-02-2015 02:18PM

Another link here

It says the entire funding for games development that the Leinster Council received was €1.64 million- slightly more than the almost €1.5 million Dublin received. It doesn't give a breakdown on each individual county though. That does make the money distribution seem slightly more equitable.

This article from October gives different figures so it's tough to see what exactly is correct.

Perhaps the fairest thing to do would be to review total income from gate receipts, grants from central and provincial councils, money from sponsorship deals and any other sources. Then, money gained from sponsorship deals and gate receipts could be deducted from central council/provincial funding. Hopefully then, between all sources of income, counties would have a roughly similar spending money per capita, with some of the "weaker" counties having slightly more spending per head.. This would go someway towards reducing the unfair advantage Dublin have from large sponsorship deals etc.

An example of how this would work would be say if Cork had sponsorship deals of €100,000 a year vs Dublin having deals of €500,000. The money from the central and provincial councils would be reduced then for Dublin, so that when all funding is taken into account, Dublin's budget is still only in the region of 2.5 x Cork's. This would ensure a more level playing field.

nice_guy80 · 15-02-2015 02:55PM

Each report seems to muddy the waters.

Dublin also gets funding direct from the government, AFAIK.

I'd like to see an independent review of the funding of all coaching across the country. If Dublin needs it, then fair enough. But it shouldn't be to the detriment of other counties.

BonnieSituation · 19-02-2015 10:31PM

Jampip wrote: »

Belfast has half the population of Dublin. If population is the big decider, why aren't Antrim getting a lot more?

Also, you name six counties there. If they combined have the same population as Dublin, why don't the funds paid to the six of them equal that paid to Dublin?

Another straw man of an argument that is always thrown up.

Obviously I can't ask each individual resident but we could write off half the population of Armagh, Down and Antrim for starters as they would likely have no care for the GAA. And then there's the substantial minorities of Tyrone, Fermanagh and Derry...

Seriously, stop looking at Dublin as a "typical" county and you'll start accepting that that the financing that goes to Dublin is of a level that is more or less appropriate.

The biggest scandals are counties like Longford and Westmeath who have been discussed that get similar funding but don't seem to do as much with it.

Dublin dominates Central Council's games development budget

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