Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Read Mod Warning in OP 7/1/15

Irishcrx · 05-02-2015 10:29AM

Lord TSC wrote: »

Was reading their fans saying their massive problem at the moment is their inability to score goals; that they had 5 or 6 good chances last night, but that their attacking players have zero ability to put the ball into the net....

Yeah the issue is up front not at the back. Lewondowski banged in 20-25 goals a season for them, when he didn't Reus or Gotze would chip in. This season they are creating chances but cannot find the back of the net.

Immobile couldn't wear Lews boots , isn't half the player.

Aubamehang isn't a bad player, but he' s a winger and isn't a great finisher either. IMO they really needed to spend on a striker in January to sort the mess out...and they didn't.

The Moldy Gowl · 05-02-2015 10:29AM

If they get relegated they might do a juventus on it. The players could stay and get the club back up especially if klopp stayed.

They would get tremendous hate from their fans if they just bailed. Unjustified hate no doubt but one or 2 might want to get the club back up since it was their fault

adox · 05-02-2015 10:32AM

I think people are under estimating the state the club was in when Moyes left.

The Moldy Gowl · 05-02-2015 10:36AM

adox wrote: »

I think people are under estimating the state the club was in when Moyes left.

You mean fergie.

markc91 · 05-02-2015 10:36AM

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

You dont just become a bad player overnight when you're a world cup winner and world class for the best part of 5 years, he's playing in a team void of confidence, it plays its part. Put anyone of our world class players in the QPR Moyes led United side and see how they would be playing after 6 months of defeat after defeat.

FYP

bangkok · 05-02-2015 10:47AM

id be 100% confident Dortmund wont get relegated. too many good players and 1 win could put them up to 14th in the table

Will I Amnt · 05-02-2015 10:56AM

bangkok wrote: »

id be 100% confident Dortmund wont get relegated. too many good players and 1 win could put them up to 14th in the table

That's what was being said a few months ago when they were rock bottom.

TheDoc · 05-02-2015 11:00AM

Will I Amnt wrote: »

That's what was being said a few months ago when they were rock bottom.

Was going to say. There is always the " ah it will be fine" first it was injury crisis then it was settling back in returning players.

German outlets reporting today(including some reliables) that Klopp has one game to save his job and that the club are already planning to take drastic action to ensure the club don't get relegated.

afaik they are still in financial strife and relegation could decimate the club. If they got relegated, my god that entire team would be sold in a firesale.

Pity, enjoyed watching them the last few years but they have been absolutely trash this year. Their high tempo pressing game is just gone.

bangkok · 05-02-2015 11:02AM

Will I Amnt wrote: »

That's what was being said a few months ago when they were rock bottom.

yea but don't forget only 2 teams go down, id say they will finish mid table by the time the season finishes

adox · 05-02-2015 11:02AM

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

You mean fergie.

Nope.

bangkok · 05-02-2015 11:04AM

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

You mean fergie.

fergie? he left them as champions, IN the champions league, 150m to spend, biggest club stadium in England, the best goalkeeper in England, 2 of the best strikers in England, revenue streams not seen before in football..... yea he left the club in a bad state alright :rolleyes:

Kirby · 05-02-2015 11:26AM

bangkok wrote: »

fergie? he left them as champions, IN the champions league, 150m to spend, biggest club stadium in England, the best goalkeeper in England, 2 of the best strikers in England, revenue streams not seen before in football..... yea he left the club in a bad state alright :rolleyes:

The club was in a great state. The squad was in an awful state. Which is why so much money was spent in such a short space of time and why even more will be spent in the summer.

If you add a world class player every window instead of buying none for so long, you don't have to spend the GDP of Romania to recover. When you have as good a base as United do, you shouldn't have to buy a centre half....and a left back...and a right back....and a midfielder...and another midfielder....and the another midfielder.....and a forward.....IN THE SAME WINDOW to fix your team. That's negligence.

Fergie was brilliant for United but don't be that silly little fanboy and ignore his failings. He's not superman, he had plenty.

TheDoc · 05-02-2015 11:27AM

bangkok wrote: »

fergie? he left them as champions, IN the champions league, 150m to spend, biggest club stadium in England, the best goalkeeper in England, 2 of the best strikers in England, revenue streams not seen before in football..... yea he left the club in a bad state alright :rolleyes:

Three of the main back four declining rapidly.
A midfield consisting of absolutely nothing.
Our main and arguably best player considering his future at the club.
No wingers.

The above annoys me, you'd swear that he left the current Real Madrid team to Moyes. He left a squad that was VASTLY over rated in the clubs eyes, and no one for a second seemed to think a big part of their success was down to Fergusons ability to drag every inch of performance from players.

Not to mention Van Persie having a little sulk that he only got a year under Fergie.

And he didn't leave money to spend. How many times does it have to be reminded how Gill made a very public press conference outlining the squad will not be getting overhauled, and that there is maybe room for 1 or 2 signings for a new manager to get his own men in.

The money last summer only came about once the club realised how BAD the squad was.

Cookiemunster · 05-02-2015 11:30AM

TheDoc wrote: »

Was going to say. There is always the " ah it will be fine" first it was injury crisis then it was settling back in returning players.

German outlets reporting today(including some reliables) that Klopp has one game to save his job and that the club are already planning to take drastic action to ensure the club don't get relegated.

afaik they are still in financial strife and relegation could decimate the club. If they got relegated, my god that entire team would be sold in a firesale.

Pity, enjoyed watching them the last few years but they have been absolutely trash this year. Their high tempo pressing game is just gone.

They're not. They announced an few months ago that they are debt free. They've already said that they could easily take a year with out Euro football. They only have one player with a release clause in his contract (Reus), so if they do go down it won't be a fire sale.

Kirby · 05-02-2015 11:32AM

Cookiemunster wrote: »

They're not. They announced an few months ago that they are debt free. They've already said that they could easily take a year with out Euro football. They only have one player with a release clause in his contract (Reus), so if they do go down it won't be a fire sale.

Plenty of players will demand moves away and you cant keep them when they start agitating for it. Not to mention, most contracts for big clubs have relegation release clauses in them. Nobody could have foreseen Dortmunds woes so I'm guessing more than one player has such a clause.

Cookiemunster · 05-02-2015 11:36AM

Kirby wrote: »

Plenty of players will demand moves away and you cant keep them when they start agitating for it. Not to mention, most contracts for big clubs have relegation release clauses in them. Nobody could have foreseen Dortmunds woes so I'm guessing more than one player has such a clause.

Marco Reus is the only player with a release clause in his contract. Dortmund have stated this numerous times. I seriously doubt Dortmund would have relegation clauses in their contracts. Do you think Utds players have? Big clubs are the clubs that don't do this because they don't ever consider the possibility of relegation.

Kirby · 05-02-2015 11:38AM

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Marco Reus is the only player with a release clause in his contract. Dortmund have stated this numerous times. I seriously doubt Dortmund would have relegation clauses in their contracts. Do you think Utds players have? Big clubs are the clubs that don't do this because they don't ever consider the possibility of relegation.

Which is why they have them. It's like the 1 billion euro release clause they give some Spanish players, and not just Ronaldo and Messi. Nobody expects it to be paid, it's a check box. A status symbol. The big clubs are exactly the type of clubs you see with relegation clauses because it "wont happen". The lower clubs shy away from them because its a very real possibility and it could cost them money. I assure you, half the United squad will have it squirrelled away in their contract and not a single Hull or Burnley player will have one.

Cookiemunster · 05-02-2015 11:39AM

Kirby wrote: »

Which is why they have them. It's like the 1 billion euro release clause they give some Spanish players, and not just Ronaldo and Messi. Nobody expects it to be paid, it's a check box. A status symbol. The big clubs are exactly the type of clubs you see with relegation clauses because it "wont happen". The lower clubs shy away from them because its a very real possibility and it could cost them money.

So you believe that Manchester United have relegation clauses in all their players contracts??????

Kirby · 05-02-2015 11:40AM

Cookiemunster wrote: »

So you believe that Manchester United have relegation clauses in all their players contracts??????

Of course they do. Have you seen how long those contracts are? War and Peace or Lord of the Rings would be shorter.

The Moldy Gowl · 05-02-2015 11:42AM

It would be just a formality I would say.

The Moldy Gowl · 05-02-2015 11:44AM

Kirby wrote: »

Of course they do. Have you seen how long those contracts are? War and Peace or Lord of the Rings would be shorter.

Sure even your own work contract is pretty long. All the business policies and code of conducts and compliance and what not.

It's just a formality.

TheDoc · 05-02-2015 11:50AM

Cookiemunster wrote: »

So you believe that Manchester United have relegation clauses in all their players contracts??????

I would be suprised to find a contract at any club that doesn't have things like clauses for relegation including release fee's, pay cuts etc.

For the big clubs it's a formality and probably not even given a second thought.

But for other clubs it's significant. There is a litter of clubs who went into financial strife after thinking they were too big the drop, and didn't have proper clauses and salary clauses should the club be relegated.

I'd comfortably believe there would be a clause in a United contract, as unlikely and unrealistic as it is to be triggered.

RobertKK · 05-02-2015 11:55AM

Sure Fergie left the club in a great condition, I wish the fans would stop complaining about players like Cleverley, Anderson, Bebe, Evra, Rio, Fletcher, Welbeck and so on who have been let go or sold on.
These were the future for our club.
Moyes knew it, sure they won the premier league.
Long live Fergie, Moyes and LVG have ruined the club with players like Mata, Fellani, Di Maria, Falcao on loan, Blind, Herrera, Rojo Shaw and Valdes being brought in and those others leaving.
Please sack LVG for this travesty.

bucketybuck · 05-02-2015 11:57AM

But surely the reverse is also true. Potential signings would be much less likely to even ask for a relegation clause, because why bother? A clause like that won't be in a contract by default because it can only harm the club, so if the player doesn't request one it won't be there. And if a player is going to one of the "big" clubs why would he bother asking for a relegation clause when he knows its never going to happen.

Ergo, seems much more likely that most of United player wouldn't have a relegation clause, because they were less likely to ask for one in the first palce.

Kirby · 05-02-2015 11:58AM

RobertKK wrote: »

Sure Fergie left the club in a great condition, I wish the fans would stop complaining about players like Cleverley, Anderson, Bebe, Evra, Rio, Fletcher, Welbeck and so on who have been let go or sold on.
These were the future for our club.
Moyes knew it, sure they won the premier league.
Long live Fergie, Moyes and LVG have ruined the club with players like Mata, Fellani, Di Maria, Falcao on loan, Blind, Herrera, Rojo Shaw and Valdes being brought in and those others leaving.
Please sack LVG for this travesty.

what-you-did-there-i-see-it.thumbnail.jpg

bangkok · 05-02-2015 12:01PM

TheDoc wrote: »

Three of the main back four declining rapidly.

The best young goalkeeper in Europe, Vidic who still would be there if it wasn't for moyes, Rafael, Jones, Smalling, Evans, buttner, rio still could have played 1-15 games managed correctly, evra

A midfield consisting of absolutely nothing.

Michael Carrick, IMO the best defensive midfielder in England
Kagawa who many here said was one of the best no10s around if played in that position

Our main and arguably best player considering his future at the club.

Don't know what this has to do with anything, wasn't the first time he done this

No wingers.

?? Nani, Valencia, Young, Januzaj, Giggs

The above annoys me, you'd swear that he left the current Real Madrid team to Moyes. He left a squad that was VASTLY over rated in the clubs eyes, and no one for a second seemed to think a big part of their success was down to Fergusons ability to drag every inch of performance from players.

Not to mention Van Persie having a little sulk that he only got a year under Fergie.

And he didn't leave money to spend. How many times does it have to be reminded how Gill made a very public press conference outlining the squad will not be getting overhauled, and that there is maybe room for 1 or 2 signings for a new manager to get his own men in.

The money last summer only came about once the club realised how BAD the squad
was

.

Money was always there, it was just that fergie was so good that they didn't think they needed to vastly improve the squad as they were continuously competing in the league and europe

Pro. F · 05-02-2015 12:13PM

The fact that Moyes and LVG (and possibly some behind the scenes actor in charge of transfers) have done such obviously poor jobs of managing the club undermines the argument that the problem was the squad Fergie left behind.

We needed a few new defenders and a few new midfielders. There was bucket loads of money to spend. It was no particular challenge to finish in the top four.

bucketybuck · 05-02-2015 12:14PM

bangkok wrote: »

Money was always there, it was just that fergie was so good that they didn't think they needed to vastly improve the squad as they were continuously competing in the league and europe

Your memory is faulty. Go back 4/5 years and you will find that lots of people had plenty of concerns about the direction the squad was going and the horrendous state of the midfield in particular. The Blackburn game anybody? Scholes coming out of retirement?

That team didn't down tools just because Moyes came in, it was a creaking squad that always badly needed refurbishment. Still good enough for top four mind, but nowhere near as good as it needed to be to compete for titles and European cups.

Al Capwned · 05-02-2015 12:16PM

The big money should have been spent.

It should have happened after '09, but no way should it have been left long after July 2011 in the weeks after we were torn apart in Wembley.

If the same investment of the past 2 years had taken place over the period from the '09 final till now, coupled with the correct selection of manager when Ferguson left, we'd be in a lot stronger situation than we are now.
And for everything that Alex Ferguson is to United, I'd hold him primarily responsible for the neglect shown.

TheDoc · 05-02-2015 12:19PM

Al Capwned wrote: »

The big money should have been spent.

It should have happened after '09, but no way should it have been left long after July 2011 in the weeks after we were torn apart in Wembley.

If the same investment of the past 2 years had taken place over the period from the '09 final till now, coupled with the correct selection of manager when Ferguson left, we'd be in a lot stronger situation than we are now.
And for everything that Alex Ferguson is to United, I'd hold him primarily responsible for the neglect shown.

Perfectly sums it up for me. Instead of capitalising on the Champions league success and subsequent finals, it's like he thought what we had was enough and we could supplement the squad with youth, while the existing team could keep going again and again.

We should have been an absolute monster after the three CL finals in four years, it was a period totally squandered imo.

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Read Mod Warning in OP 7/1/15

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