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The popularity and ethics of PUAs and similar communities
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Perhaps understandable. But frustrating. There'd be uproar if was the approach for other groups.
It is (was maybe, I'm talking about 1990s - early 2000s) quite the norm in Italy. The excuse behind it is that "women don't pick up fights or cause problems", which is bullcr@ap - every time there was a fight, scuffle or whatnot, it was either started by a woman and then her male pals got involved, or about a woman.
The reality was that they wanted women in the place to attract men, increasing the volume of the business. To this day (last August) I have been to places where the women get in for free, while men pay 10-15 euro. It is dictated by a cultural peculiarity of the country - if they didn't employ these kind of strategies, the club/bar would become an absolute sausage fest (and empty the next week, as the word "there are no women there!" spreads)
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ancapailldorcha wrote: »Makes sense in a way. A lot of people go to nightclubs to meet people of the opposite sex. Letting in more women makes the place more appealing to men. I'm assuming that nightclubs are more popular with guys hence the "gender quotas" some of them have.
This fella makes some very interesting points:
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Seen a number of his videos, he hits a good number points correctly in my opinion.the evasion_kid wrote: »0 -
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IrishFeeney92 wrote: »As somebody who has 'studied' PUA in the past, and I use that term lightly, there is SOOOO much more to it than lines, in fact, the general consensus between the top PUAs is whats called Inner Game, being comfortable in yourself, having goals, confidence, understanding what attraction is and how to create it between yourself and a female is what its all about. Its not about banging x amount of girls or getting girls that are on a x/10 scale even though it is described more often than not as working this way.
You could have the best looking lad in the world, but if hes in no way confident an attractive woman that could potentially be interested in him will never go near him. Its up to the man to show his values and his ambitions in order to gain that confidence. How does he do this? he learns to express himself in ways he never knew how, he learns different social interactions, he takes care of himself health wise and he improves his character and most importantly he feels he is living life to the best of his ability and has dreams of progressing even further. This is the main message of PUA. The reason why it is so socially unacceptable to be associated with it is the way it is marketed and down to the way the general society sees it. The way its sold is totally wrong and I couldn't disagree with it any more. Underneath it all there are a fine set of principles that some men have developed naturally over the course of their lives, others need to be taught or learn the,. So be it
Interesting. Its not an area I've more than a passing curiosity about but quite a bit of the PUA stuff I've seen seems to be a mix of develop confidence/ self improvement - albeit often packaged up in an Americanised BS sales pitch that comes across as rather sleazy. I do wonder sometimes if some of the negativity towards it is driven as much by a negative view of empowering young men as by any concern about the more negative side of it.0 -
I think Red Pill, RSD, PUA etc, rtc and male centered self improvement has been on of the best things in recent years for young men. Lord knows it was well overdue like a Yellowstone eruption gate decades upon decades of bat-**** illogical feminism. If it were about equality for all, why would it be called feminism at this point?
It also marks a conservative/libertarian pushback against western (read American culture ) that seems to have leaked off the internet and has finally begun to surface in that actual people aren't afraid to talk about men's issues or ruffle a few feathers.
Also in Ireland and Europe is only a shadow of what USA culture is like and thank god for that, I hate to see countries adopting the worst parts of the USA just because it's the USA.
It wouldn't surprise if this Bill Burr reads this stuff and he clocks it in a mainstream accessible way. Look how awkward it gets halfway through, cos they know
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the evasion_kid wrote: »
I can't believe another Irish guy watches him as well.
Bachelor Pad Economics is one of the best book non fiction books I have ever read, completely strips you of any B.S view of the world. Very subversive and under the skin, chilling in fact.0 -
Some quotes collected from that guys book, on Amazon reviews:Adamantium wrote: »I can't believe another Irish guy watches him as well.
Bachelor Pad Economics is one of the best book non fiction books I have ever read, completely strips you of any B.S view of the world. Very subversive and under the skin, chilling in fact."Women are absolutely horrible at managing finances." (Page 392)
"Sadly, the chances of being falsely accused [of rape] are increasing as the definition of rape becomes more liberal and modern women more narcissistic" (Page 246 -- this comes literally two paragraphs after the section about how getting women drunk is a great way to get laid)
"The problem is society has lied to men and women about reality ... they've convinced women that 'big is beautiful' and 'men value educated women.'" (Page 231)
"Most girls major in stupid s***." (Page 384)"Unfortunately, most women do not place as much value on sex as men do, and thusly let themselves go after marriage. Furthermore, with all the female-centric brainwashing they've received over the decades, they actually believe that you should only like them for their personality and 'inner beauty."
"No matter what they say, no matter what Oprah tells you, no matter what legions of single moms and psychologists tell you, women don't want to lead or be leaders, women want, nay crave, to be led."
"Women are absolutely horrible at managing their personal finances."
"is nothing more than an affirmative action program designed to get more women employed in the corporate world without putting them in genuine positions of power. They can't do accounting. They can't do math. They can't do computer programming, but they can ask you some mean questions about where you see yourself in three years...""Women like tall, strong, aloof, confident a******s who ignore them and treat them like s***."
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"Where women are weak, men are strong. Where men suck at doing things, women excel. And where men like to play with boobies, women like having their boobies played with."0 -
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Adamantium wrote: »I can't believe another Irish guy watches him as well.
Bachelor Pad Economics is one of the best book non fiction books I have ever read, completely strips you of any B.S view of the world. Very subversive and under the skin, chilling in fact.
He blogs around the manosphere under the handle captain capitalism,its only lately I got around to reading one of his books.
http://captaincapitalism.blogspot.ie/2012/05/manosphere.html
You'll notice there's a link to bill burrs site0 -
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I'd mostly agree with Wibbs, the guy is kinda "black and white", if I get the concept across. I didn't read any of his books, I just listened at some of his vlogs (while doing other stuff, in truth).
He has some valid points; The clip posted about the whole "nightclub" malarkey is almost entirely spot on. Even when the concept that many women dress up in a certain way or send out certain signals just to get attention, when in reality they aren't really looking to meet someone. It's a concept I wish more men would understand - it'd help us all look a bit less like fools.
He has similar valid points when he goes on about stuff like "having to invest" (e.g. pension funds, houses et simila) which ironically seem catered as much towards the Irish as they are towards Americans.
Other times he goes on completely silly; There's one clip about "getting rid of stuff" that while clever in principle, ends up essentially saying "you should just live like a caveman with no interest in life other than f*cking women" (he essentially goes on like: rent the smallest place you can live in, get rid of hobbies/interests/likings that involve owning stuff, get rid of physical books and so on).
Still entertaining, 'though 0 -
Adamantium wrote: »I think Red Pill, RSD, PUA etc, rtc and male centered self improvement has been on of the best things in recent years for young men. Lord knows it was well overdue like a Yellowstone eruption gate decades upon decades of bat-**** illogical feminism. If it were about equality for all, why would it be called feminism at this point?
It also marks a conservative/libertarian pushback against western (read American culture ) that seems to have leaked off the internet and has finally begun to surface in that actual people aren't afraid to talk about men's issues or ruffle a few feathers.
Also in Ireland and Europe is only a shadow of what USA culture is like and thank god for that, I hate to see countries adopting the worst parts of the USA just because it's the USA.
It wouldn't surprise if this Bill Burr reads this stuff and he clocks it in a mainstream accessible way. Look how awkward it gets halfway through, cos they know
The Red Pill movement is one of the best things thats happened for men in a long time. Required reading for all men but especially younger men. Thanks to divorce there's a whole generation of boys growing up with little or no contact with their fathers. In general masculinity has been demonized. There are few if any traditional male role models left.
The best thing is the sheer contempt for the liberal feminist narrative. When you've been brainwashed by the hyper-pc mainstream media, reading red pill websites is a very liberating experience.0 -
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Ya agreed - included that more to highlight the negative comment on women, than the false accusation bit."Sadly, the chances of being falsely accused [of rape] are increasing as the definition of rape becomes more liberal and modern women more narcissistic"
I'd somewhat agree here. But yet again it's US based and even there it's highly dependent on the social environment. The US college campuses I mentioned before. Where faculties can act as judge and jury kowtowing to some of the more nonsensical so called feminist newthink. Outside that environment it's a different matter.
Overall, agree with all the responses - tbh I didn't think any of the quotes merited a thorough breakdown, kind of spoke for themselves, but good to have it
Ya my approach is even less forgiving: Once I find something that sufficiently shows a source as unreliable like that, I'm pretty much done with reading them, because fact-checking everything they say thereafter is just too burdensome, and you're likely to absorb some of their bullshít through osmosis if you don't filter them out entirely (I'm pretty convinced, that even the most intelligent of people are not immune to this - just can't be on guard all the time).I've watched and read some of his stuff before. He makes a few good points but it's buried in so much waffle and nonsense and a narrow subsection of US cultural experience that the effort to dig is hardly worth it for me. And by god I know waffle and nonsense pretty well...0 -
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Ok but hang on a tick M...The Red Pill movement is one of the best things thats happened for men in a long time. Required reading for all men but especially younger men.
Where? Ireland? Sorry, nope the stats don't bear this out. Not even close. The number of divorced people in Ireland is just under 80,000 out of a population of what 4 and half million? The highest divorce rate is apparently in Limerick city at 13.5%. Compare and contrast that with the US rates(and even in the US the divorce rate has been steadily dropping since the 90's, yet if one was to buy into the red pill types you'd swear it was open warfare).Thanks to divorce there's a whole generation of boys growing up with little or no contact with their fathers.
To nick a David Bowie song title "this is not America"[emphasis mine], so we should really dial back on swallowing this particular strain of their kool aid. And not just on this aspect of the Manosphere. It really should be retitled the American Manosphere. Take other targets of theirs, like obesity. While obesity is increasing in Ireland(and more among men) we're still way behind the American trends. Their take on "working for the man"? Corporate culture and job laws are vastly different here than in the US. More holidays and legal protection for a start. Education? College fees are astronomical and many are paying of their college loans for a decade or more. Never mind that we have social security and social medicine that Americans can't begin to comprehend(and confusingly don't want). Take the latter. Interesting stat; well over half of all personal filings for bankruptcy in the US were down to medical bills. That simply doesn't exist here, or would be incredibly rare. Yet Americans near deify their doctors and can't even comprehend the idea of social medicine. America is a fantastic place if you're in the top percentile of clever and driven(and/or wealthy to start with) people, for the rest it's not such a good deal and that gap ever widens. Yet many Americans don't see this and continue to buy into the American dream(tm). As someone whose name escapes once said the American poor are not like the poor elsewhere, they see themselves as temporarily embarrassed millionaires chasing the dream. And that's one big reason why they'll be against more social security, as they believe that this will mean more taxes from them when they're no longer embarrassed and wealthy down the line. And that's before we get to their network mainstream media. America produces some of the best TV drama in the world, but the mainstream dross is well... dross. Their news and current affairs stuff is dumbed down to the point where you feel stupider after you watch it. I remember an episode of "60 Minutes" was shown on the BBC a few years back. It would be one of their more respected shows, yet even there it tends to talk slowly for the droolers in the back and it only lasted 35 minutes. Yep, the missing minutes would have been ad breaks in The US. No wonder they have to keep it simple to hold attention, with that level of stop/start going on.
In short America has far fewer social safety nets than Ireland or Europe. This kind of culture is bound to influence social culture to quite the extent and IMH is one of the things that has fuelled this whole Manosphere gig and PUA with it.
In what sense? Take films and TV. There are a lot of macho type males in both media. Hell they make our own Liam Neeson an action hero(how did that happen?) and make him so that if he was any more macho he'd be living up a tree and he's a devoted father and all that. There are enough examples of his type too. Sure we don't have the mindless(if fun at times) one dimensional lugnut Rambo/Arnie male role models these days, but Id see that as a step forward. Though we did have 300, which your PUA/Manosphere types dug to no end. Their No homo filter must have exploded as it was one of the single most homoerotic mainstream flics ever.In general masculinity has been demonized. There are few if any traditional male role models left.
I'd agree if you are a 20 year old bloke in a US college, sucking on the teat of mainstream media and privilege checks in the lecture room. And if you are then game ball and I'd suggest bugging your room and having consent contracts to sign should you fancy a shag that might come back to bite you, but if you're an Irish bloke a world away in distance and culture then no. Really M, no. Oh hell yes there is some of that leftie feminist stuff here, but not nearly to the degree of "over there". Outside of the minority nutters we're pretty easygoing(as are Yanks outside the east/west/urban/college subcultures and their divorce rates are lower too).The best thing is the sheer contempt for the liberal feminist narrative. When you've been brainwashed by the hyper-pc mainstream media, reading red pill websites is a very liberating experience.
TL;DR?(understandable TBH), This is not America. You are not an American man. You are not a divorced American man. The issues Irish men may face may have some parallels, but not nearly to the degree that American men may have.Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.
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