How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

Ctrl Alt Delete · 31-01-2015 05:20PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

As opposed to the reasonable logical debate from the no side?

Good well reasoned retort, to the point raised and question asked :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Ctrl Alt Delete · 31-01-2015 05:25PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

It's fairly clear from the previous 50 odd pages that there's no point whatsoever entering into an actual debate with you. If you come up with any actual arguments against same sex marriage that might change, at the moment though you're just making hysterical claims and trying to make the other side look ridiculous.

Did I say multi national corporations will pull out of Ireland if the no vote carries ??

I of course ask for any semblence of evidence to backup a statement that multi nationals will pull out of Ireland if no carries and I'm the one who gets told I'm making hysterical claims and wont debate :P:P:P:P:P

Damned if you and damned if you don't by the pro yes side

marienbad · 31-01-2015 05:29PM

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

Did I say multi national corporations will pull out of Ireland if the no vote carries ??

I of course ask for any semblence of evidence to backup a statement that multi nationals will pull out of Ireland if no carries and I'm the one who gets told I'm making hysterical claims and wont debate :P:P:P:P:P

Damned if you and damned if you don't by the pro yes side

Is there anything that would convince you to vote yes though ?

seamus · 31-01-2015 05:31PM

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

US corporations alone funneled over $16 billion through Ireland from their EU operations in 2013 alone in order to lower their tax liabilities drastically.

If you genuinely think that they are willing to lose billions because a no vote in the referendum carrys you are seriously naive.

More nonsense misinformation and scaremongering from the yes side.

In fact can you provide me with a link from any US corporation who are directly and explicitly stating that they will pull out of Ireland if the no vote carries ?

It's certainly a more extreme argument, but not without its merit. You seem to be rather ignoring the key points of the post - companies express support for certain positions both to win customer base but also to attract top talent.

If Ireland came out with a "no", that has a definite potential to both discourage top talent from coming here to work (you couldn't get me to migrate to a religious country), and for companies to give serious thought to pulling out to show how "pro lgbt" they are.

In real terms Ireland is small and relocating elsewhere for big companies is dead easy. Our beneficial tax laws are coming to an end anyway, so it would be folly to assume any US multinationals are here to stay.

Ctrl Alt Delete · 31-01-2015 05:32PM

marienbad wrote: »

Is there anything that would convince you to vote yes though ?

Oh right I see so because I'm voting no any debate I try and have is invalid and doesnt count ????

Good demonstration of understanding of equality again by posters on this thread,

pro yes = you can talk
pro no = your opinion doesnt matter

shruikan2553 · 31-01-2015 05:35PM

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

Did I say multi national corporations will pull out of Ireland if the no vote carries ??

I of course ask for any semblence of evidence to backup a statement that multi nationals will pull out of Ireland if no carries and I'm the one who gets told I'm making hysterical claims and wont debate :P:P:P:P:P

Damned if you and damned if you don't by the pro yes side

You dont seem to worried about proof when someone who is voting no makes claims. Thats odd.

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

Oh right I see so because I'm voting no any debate I try and have is invalid and doesnt count ????

Good demonstration of understanding of equality again by posters on this thread,

pro yes = you can talk
pro no = your opinion doesnt matter

And how would one debate against someone such as yourself who is against it for personal reasons they wont explain?

Ctrl Alt Delete · 31-01-2015 05:37PM

seamus wrote: »

It's certainly a more extreme argument, but not without its merit. You seem to be rather ignoring the key points of the post - companies express support for certain positions both to win customer base but also to attract top talent.

If Ireland came out with a "no", that has a definite potential to both discourage top talent from coming here to work (you couldn't get me to migrate to a religious country), and for companies to give serious thought to pulling out to show how "pro lgbt" they are.

In real terms Ireland is small and relocating elsewhere for big companies is dead easy. Our beneficial tax laws are coming to an end anyway, so it would be folly to assume any US multinationals are here to stay.

So to sum up your post, you can't actually offer any multi national explicitly stating their intention to pull out of Ireland if no carries and pop over to the UK for example where they will be exposed to an additional $1.6 billion in tax payments (US based corporations alone).

Also, what date is Irelands low tax rate due to end ???

Ctrl Alt Delete · 31-01-2015 05:38PM

shruikan2553 wrote: »

You dont seem to worried about proof when someone who is voting no makes claims. Thats odd.

Ah so yes side can apply double standards but the no side cannot. ????

More equality :rolleyes:

shruikan2553 · 31-01-2015 05:39PM

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

Ah so yes side can apply double standards but the no side cannot. ????

More equality :rolleyes:

You are admitting to having double standards then? Thats a start.

Im as likely to take you seriously about equality as I am to take Gary Glitters advice on raising children.

Ctrl Alt Delete · 31-01-2015 05:40PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

You're adorable.

And your just as much as hypocrit as I am claimed to be

Ctrl Alt Delete · 31-01-2015 05:41PM

shruikan2553 wrote: »

You are admitting to having double standards then? Thats a start.

I said no such thing so no need to twist.

The point of the post was that the no side gets acussed of double standards and thats all dandy, but if the yes side show those same double standards how dare the no side call them to task on it.

Equality but only if your pro yes

Ctrl Alt Delete · 31-01-2015 05:43PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Funny how you keep claiming no one will debate you while consistently ignoring any requests for debate.

Did I or did I not just engage on debate regarding multi nationals leaving the country if the no vote carries?

Did I or did I not get shouted down as not debating when I asked for any shred of evidence that multi nationals will pull out of the country ?

Answer to both of course is yes :rolleyes:

And of course in the meantime no response has been offered to my request to show multi nationals will pull out of the country if no carries.

Sheldons Brain · 31-01-2015 05:43PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

And people will look back in the future and say that gender has no effect on the definition of marriage. Your argument is absurd.

As I pointed out, in the 1950s could look back to the past and see that race has no relevance to marriage.

Gender has no effect on the definition of marriage, but men and women can get married. But the combination of two people of the same gender is qualitatively different from the combination of people of different gender. Two partially sighted people could get married and not be aware that they were of a different race, one imagines they would notice that they were the same gender!

bb1234567 · 31-01-2015 05:44PM

I will certainly be out voting yes so my aunt can marry her girlfriend of 14 years

shruikan2553 · 31-01-2015 05:46PM

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

I said no such thing so no need to twist.

The point of the post was that the no side gets acussed of double standards and thats all dandy, but if the yes side show those same double standards how dare the no side call them to task on it.

Equality but only if your pro yes

All of a sudden you want equality. :rolleyes:

Except if they are gay of course.

IrishSkyBoxer · 31-01-2015 05:47PM

Can gay people and couples adopt at present?

Ctrl Alt Delete · 31-01-2015 05:48PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

That's an argument with another poster that I'm not getting into because I simply don't know what the effect on multinationals will be. Personally, I think it's fairly unlikely that there will be a notable effect on multinationals but as I said, I really don't know. You're focusing on ONE argument by ONE SSM proponent.

We can only focus on one point at a time can we not ? Because when more points get raised posts get missed and the inevitable "dodging questions" accusations start appearing.

ducksauce · 31-01-2015 05:49PM

Frankly, I don't really care one way or the other. I don't have strong opinions on either side. That said, I'll vote yes, because I don't see any reason why I shouldn't. Live and let live!

Ctrl Alt Delete · 31-01-2015 05:49PM

IrishSkyBoxer wrote: »

Can gay people and couples adopt at present?

Yes, gay people can adopt. Gay couples currently cannot. But gay couples have been happy to circumvent this by adopting "singularly"

shruikan2553 · 31-01-2015 05:50PM

IrishSkyBoxer wrote: »

Can gay people and couples adopt at present?

Anyone can adopt but only married couples can adopt as a couple and both be seen as the legal guardian. If a gay couple want to adopt one of the is the legal guardian and the other has no legal ties to the child.

Theres a new bill which will allow civil partnerships to adopt as a couple as well.

Ctrl Alt Delete · 31-01-2015 05:52PM

ducksauce wrote: »

Frankly, I don't really care one way or the other. I don't have strong opinions on either side. That said, I'll vote yes, because I don't see any reason why I shouldn't. Live and let live!

Firstly, for the record I respect your rationale and accept that is your decision making process and commend you for committing to vote (but like mine apparently) your decision to vote yes lacks any solid foundation or reasoning.

I await any poster here to pull ducksauce up for voting yes for the same (low evidenced rationale as people say here) that I am voting no.

Of course it won't happen because its a vote in favor of same sex marriage and the yes side like their double standards just as much as the no side.

WoolyJumper · 31-01-2015 05:53PM

IrishSkyBoxer wrote: »

Can gay people and couples adopt at present?

At present a single gay person can adopt but a gay couple can't jointly adopt. Gay couples can jointly foster a child though. A bill separate to the referendum will be brought through the dail to a deal with a number of issues around children and families, including allowing gay couples to apply and be considered for adoption.

marienbad · 31-01-2015 05:53PM

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

Oh right I see so because I'm voting no any debate I try and have is invalid and doesnt count ????

Good demonstration of understanding of equality again by posters on this thread,

pro yes = you can talk
pro no = your opinion doesnt matter

Not at all - why do you insist on reading other peoples minds ?

At this juncture I cannot see any argument that would convince me to vote no so I don't see you having the exact revere stance as I as particularly objectionable .

So I ask again is their any argument that would could you to vote yes ?

shruikan2553 · 31-01-2015 05:54PM

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

Firstly, for the record I respect your rationale and accept that is your decision making process and commend you for committing to vote (but like mine apparently) your decision to vote yes lacks any solid foundation or reasoning.

I await any poster here to pull ducksauce up for voting yes for the same (low evidenced rationale as people say here) that I am voting no.

Of course it won't happen because its a vote in favor of same sex marriage and the yes side like their double standards just as much as the no side.

He decided to live and let live, the monster.

Ctrl Alt Delete · 31-01-2015 05:56PM

marienbad wrote: »

So I ask again is their any argument that would could you to vote yes ?

I've already stated in this thread multiple times that my decision to vote no is firm. I've also stated my belief that very few people will sway from the yes to the no camp and vice versa.

Peoples decisions to vote yes or no have been largely made already IMO

Ctrl Alt Delete · 31-01-2015 05:57PM

shruikan2553 wrote: »

He decided to live and let live, the monster.

Like I said I've zero problems with his decision to vote yes or his rationale behind it.

I'm just waiting to see if anyone here who is pro yes will of course "take him to task" for his ill thought out logic or rationale or is that just reserved for the no votes?

WoolyJumper · 31-01-2015 05:57PM

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

Yes, gay people can adopt. Gay couples currently cannot. But gay couples have been happy to circumvent this by adopting "singularly"

Those devious gays...Of course a gay person can apply to adopt as a single person, that does not automatically mean they will have a child placed with them. They have to go through the entire adoption process like everyone else, where a child will be placed in that family, only if its in the best interest of the child.

marienbad · 31-01-2015 05:58PM

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

I've already stated in this thread multiple times that my decision to vote no is firm. I've also stated my belief that very few people will sway from the yes to the no camp and vice versa.

Peoples decisions to vote yes or no have been largely made already IMO

Might I ask what are your reason for voting No ?

I will be voting yes purely on the grounds of equality .I need no more incentive than that .

shruikan2553 · 31-01-2015 05:59PM

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

Like I said I've zero problems with his decision to vote yes or his rationale behind it.

I'm just waiting to see if anyone here who is pro yes will of course "take him to task" for his ill thought out logic or rationale or is that just reserved for the no votes?

What ill thought out logic? He said live and let live. By voting yes people who want to get married to someone of the same gender can, it makes no difference to him.

Someone voting no is telling someone they cant get married. Its not live and let live, its forcing their view on someone.

COYVB · 31-01-2015 06:00PM

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

Firstly, for the record I respect your rationale and accept that is your decision making process and commend you for committing to vote (but like mine apparently) your decision to vote yes lacks any solid foundation or reasoning.

Theirs reason for voting yes has plenty of logic. It amounts to: it doesn't affect me so I've got no problem in affording these rights to everyone in the name of equality.

Yours is the equivalent to "I dislike tomatoes, they're not to my liking, and as such I'm going to back the campaign to prevent everyone else in the country from having tomatoes"

How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

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