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How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

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Comments

  • #1202
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    So, you've only singled them out for continued discrimination. Such a gent.

    Can you exemplify where I have singled any homosexual person out or supported such continued discrimination?

    You may see my stance as discrimination but legally as of right now it is not and is line with the law and the State.


  • #1203
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    spikeS wrote: »
    No but will make it easier, they can adopt anyway but the marriage makes it so they cannot be discriminated against another married couple.

    Lets be factually correct here. Gay couples cannot adopt currently.

    They can singularly adopt but not as a couple.

    These type of things lads will be jumped on and is easy points.


  • #1204
    WhiteWalls
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 945 ✭✭✭WhiteWalls


    spikeS wrote: »
    No but will make it easier, they can adopt anyway but the marriage makes it so they cannot be discriminated against another married couple.

    If it fails they can still adopt but will be lower on list then a married male/female couple

    What about fostering?


  • #1205
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,259 ✭✭✭Daith


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    Lets be factually correct here. Gay couples cannot adopt currently.

    They can singularly adopt but not as a couple.

    These type of things lads will be jumped on and is easy points.

    Good lord, I was just about to post the same thing.


  • #1206
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    WhiteWalls wrote: »
    Simple question which will swing my vote. If this referendum is passed will it allow gay couples to adopt children?

    Gay couples will be legally able to adopt if this referendum passes of if it doesnt.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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  • #1207
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    Daith wrote: »
    This is a discussion board though!

    And I'm finding the discussion fascinating but not from a swaying people to the yes or no camp point of view


  • #1208
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,259 ✭✭✭Daith


    WhiteWalls wrote: »
    What about fostering?

    Gay couples can foster already.


  • #1209
    spikeS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 179 ✭✭spikeS


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    Lets be factually correct here. Gay couples cannot adopt currently.

    They can singularly adopt but not as a couple.

    These type of things lads will be jumped on and is easy points.

    Sorry yeah that was my point they can adopt but if the no vote win they will be lower on the list, so a yes vote is what we need to make them equal to adopt same as a straight couple.


  • #1210
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,259 ✭✭✭Daith


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    And I'm finding the discussion fascinating but not from a swaying people to the yes or no camp point of view

    My point is that if the vast majority on a discussion board disagree with you it's not shouting you down.


  • #1211
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    Daith wrote: »
    Good lord, I was just about to post the same thing.

    Uh oh :P:P:P:P


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  • #1212
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,259 ✭✭✭Daith


    spikeS wrote: »
    Sorry yeah that was my point they can adopt but if the no vote win they will be lower on the list, so a yes vote is what we need to make them equal to adopt same as a straight couple.

    No, that's not correct at all.

    Referendum has no bearing on joint gay adoption.


  • #1213
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    Daith wrote: »
    No, that's not correct at all.

    Referendum has no bearing on joint gay adoption.

    I think this would be the focal point on clarifying facts.

    There are obviously plenty of people who support same sex marriage but as can be seen (one indicative post only I know) while they support same sex marriage they will not support same sex adoption / families (its a different issue i know).

    I'm a step behind them and goes back to what I was saying yesterday about gradual progression of rights / changing public attitudes ;)

    These are probably the people that need to be targeted by the yes side as they can be swayed by the yes side but cannot be swayed by the no side as there would be no factual comeback from the no side.


  • #1214
    spikeS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 179 ✭✭spikeS


    Daith wrote: »
    No, that's not correct at all.

    Referendum has no bearing on joint gay adoption.

    I thought they could still prioritise married over CP couples so to make anti discrimination law come into effect the marriage referendum needs to pass.

    The gay CP could can still adopt but they are lower on the list, if the yes vote goes through they become equal and the adoption places can no longer set them on a lower place in the list.

    So the yes vote make something they can do already a hell of a lot easier and fair


  • #1215
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    Can you exemplify where I have singled any homosexual person out or supported such continued discrimination?

    You may see my stance as discrimination but legally as of right now it is not and is line with the law and the State.

    It is discrimination. It is legally enforced discrimination but discrimination none the less.


  • #1216
    K4t
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,362 ✭✭✭K4t


    Lyaiera wrote: »
    Equality... Not a real issue...
    It is only an issue because a minority would seek to deny a group of people equal rights. There is no need for a debate. The majority believe in equal rights and so the referendum should pass tomorrow. If after that the minority opinion subsequently changes in favour of banning SSM and spreads and becomes the popular belief in the country then it will spread to political parties and another referendum can take place in proposal of banning SSM and it will pass. And we'll be back to square one.


    Marriage equality should not even be regarded as an issue in 2015 Ireland. We should not be giving it a platform if it means the conversation has to be balanced by conservative nutjobs. We should vote and let the polls do the talking.


  • #1217
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,259 ✭✭✭Daith


    spikeS wrote: »
    I thought they could still prioritise married over CP couples so to make anti discrimination law come into effect the marriage referendum needs to pass.

    The guy CP could can still adopt but they are lower on the list, if the yes vote goes through they become equal and the adoption places can no longer set them on a lower place in the list.

    No. No gay couple can adopt.
    The Children and Family bill will allow Civil Partnered couples to adopt jointly.
    Adoption Agency treats all valid adoption requests as equal and decides what's best for the child.

    Referendum has NO bearing on this


  • #1218
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    Can you exemplify where I have singled any homosexual person out or supported such continued discrimination?

    You have stated that you will vote to maintain a ban on any homosexual couple getting married. That's discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.

    Oh, and black slavery was legal in the Southern states of America up until it wasn't, but it was the most horrific discrimination imaginable even when it was legal.


  • #1219
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,259 ✭✭✭Daith


    77225 births in Ireland in 2012
    49 domestic adoptions
    33 of which to family members, 16 to non family


  • #1220
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    It is discrimination. It is legally enforced discrimination but discrimination none the less.

    Legally as defined it is not discrimination and emotive terms like discrimination are pointless.

    For example can you cite me any examples of an EU Commission judgement against the Irish State for discrimination of homosexuals ?


  • #1221
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    spikeS wrote: »
    I thought they could still prioritise married over CP couples so to make anti discrimination law come into effect the marriage referendum needs to pass.

    The gay CP could can still adopt but they are lower on the list, if the yes vote goes through they become equal and the adoption places can no longer set them on a lower place in the list.

    So the yes vote make something they can do already a hell of a lot easier and fair

    What? Lower on list? What on earth are you talking about?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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  • #1222
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,259 ✭✭✭Daith


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    For example can you cite me any examples of an EU Commission judgement against the Irish State for discrimination of homosexuals ?

    There was that whole decriminalization of homosexual activities I guess.

    Or do you just mean current examples? :P


  • #1223
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    You have stated that you will vote to maintain a ban on any homosexual couple getting married. That's discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.

    No that is me voting to keep the law as it currently stands as expression by legal right to cast my vote

    By law I am currently only discriminate in the workplace on sexual orientation

    Emotive claims of discrimination are useless


  • #1224
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    No that is me voting to keep the law as it currently stands as expression by legal right to cast my vote

    By law I am currently only discriminate in the workplace on sexual orientation

    Emotive claims of discrimination are useless

    So basically, only the law exists and humans only exist within law. Anything outside of law does not and should not exist. Right.


  • #1225
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,259 ✭✭✭Daith


    Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »
    Emotive claims of discrimination are useless

    It is discrimination. Just because it's legal doesn't mean it isn't.

    Apparently the yes side can't use the word discrimination now.


  • #1226
    spikeS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 179 ✭✭spikeS


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    What? Lower on list? What on earth are you talking about?

    Once the children and parents act comes in the adoption board can use this a priority

    Married couples
    CP couples
    Single people

    If the marriage referendum fails gay couple are still lower on the list and can be discrimated against, We need the marriage referendum to pass so gay couples are in the married couple section and that way the adoption board cannot discriminate against them.

    The YES vote will not make it so gay couple can adopt as they will already be able but will make it a hell of a lot easier and equal.


  • #1227
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Daith wrote: »
    It is discrimination. Just because it's legal doesn't mean it isn't.

    Apparently the yes side can't use the word discrimination now.


    Used to be illegal for women to work once married. But that's not discrimination I guess.


  • #1228
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,259 ✭✭✭Daith


    spikeS wrote: »
    Once the children and parents act comes in the adoption board can use this a priority

    Married couples
    CP couples
    Single people

    Seriously, No.


  • #1229
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    K4t wrote: »
    It is only an issue because a minority would seek to deny a group of people equal rights. There is no need for a debate. The majority believe in equal rights and so the referendum should pass tomorrow.

    This is very silly talk and reasoning. The majority has not spoken, the majority has actually yet to make themselves known and the majority will not be known until after referendum day.
    K4t wrote: »
    If after that the minority opinion subsequently changes in favour of banning SSM and spreads and becomes the popular belief in the country then it will spread to political parties and another referendum can take place in proposal of banning SSM and it will pass. And we'll be back to square one.

    Thats democracy in action its great isnt it :) I suspect that homosexuals are in the minority in this country and will heavily rely on heterosexual public support to get this across the line.


  • #1230
    spikeS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 179 ✭✭spikeS


    Daith wrote: »
    Seriously, No.

    That's already there and why we need the yes vote to win so they can be on equal footing


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  • #1231
    Lyaiera
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭Lyaiera


    spikeS wrote: »
    wp.production.patheos.com/blogs/exploringourmatrix/files/2015/01/sealion-500x391.png

    Ok, cool. I promise I won't come into your house when you're trying to go to bed, or sit next to you in the pub when you're eating your breakfast.


This discussion has been closed.
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