Barrister's attire

Yorky · 20-01-2015 12:44PM #1

Having been present in court several times recently I've noticed many barristers wear their gowns off both shoulders, often just above elbow level. At today's sitting the barristers movements were visibly impeded and the gown required regular adjustment by wearing the gown in such a way. I was (mildly) tempted to go and pull it up for him.

Is it some sort of quasi fashion statement?

FreudianSlippers · 20-01-2015 12:48PM

Yorky wrote: »

Having been present in court several times recently I've noticed many barristers wear their gowns off both shoulders, often just above elbow level. At today's sitting the barristers movements were visibly impeded and the gown required regular adjustment by wearing the gown in such a way. I was (mildly) tempted to go and pull it up for him.

Is it some sort of quasi fashion statement?

It is. It's annoying too IMHO; there is no reason you can't wear it up on your shoulders with one massive exception: summer - mine is the wool one and it's like hell in the summer, particularly in the courts upstairs in the Four Courts.

Pat Mustard · 20-01-2015 01:47PM

Yorky wrote: »

Is it some sort of quasi fashion statement?

Only the cool kids do it. It's the barristers' equivalent of this:

sag.jpg?w=300&h=195

Claw Hammer · 20-01-2015 02:26PM

Yorky wrote: »

Having been present in court several times recently I've noticed many barristers wear their gowns off both shoulders, often just above elbow level. At today's sitting the barristers movements were visibly impeded and the gown required regular adjustment by wearing the gown in such a way. I was (mildly) tempted to go and pull it up for him.

Is it some sort of quasi fashion statement?

I was told by a barrister once that all the gowns are the same size at shoulder level and the only size difference is as regards length. Only the men with the widest shoulders can actually wear a gown so that it doesn't slide off the shoulders.
What I find more ridiculous is the femal barristers wearing six inch heels tottering around the courts.

FreudianSlippers · 20-01-2015 03:39PM

Claw Hammer wrote: »

I was told by a barrister once that all the gowns are the same size at shoulder level and the only size difference is as regards length. Only the men with the widest shoulders can actually wear a gown so that it doesn't slide off the shoulders.
What I find more ridiculous is the femal barristers wearing six inch heels tottering around the courts.

Not so sure about that tbh. I do notice that the cotton gowns are usually the ones that start looking pretty rough fairly quickly (discolouration, rips, etc.) so not sure if this has something to do with it.

I'm the worst for taking off my tabs and switching to a tie; I usually leave my tabs on all day unless I'm not in court, I know that bothers some people

Yorky · 20-01-2015 03:41PM

The chap was broad shouldered and it took studied effort to maintain it in such a position. Frankly, he looked like a pretentious prat.

Can't understand why the wearer wouldn't want to make it as presentable as possible, marking themselves out after all the study and financial commitment.

Does the judge ever instruct the offending barrister to smarten him/herself up ?

FreudianSlippers · 20-01-2015 03:49PM

I've seen a few lads get a rap on the knuckles for putting their foot up on the pew, but never for looking like a slob. There are some people who are just plain dirty if I'm honest, they'd be at the top of my list if I were in charge

MarkAnthony · 20-01-2015 09:47PM

There the whole thing about looking scruffy and how busy you are :rolleyes:

Dandelion6 · 21-01-2015 09:35AM

Claw Hammer wrote: »

What I find more ridiculous is the femal barristers wearing six inch heels tottering around the courts.

Why do you find that ridiculous?

Victor · 21-01-2015 10:35AM

The Mustard wrote: »

Only the cool kids do it. It's the barristers' equivalent of this:

http://wesleybauman.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/sag.jpg?w=300&h=195

It's for barristers who've been to prison?

The image is slightly ironic. The low slung trousers 'designates' people who have been to prison, where one isn't allowed have a belt and hence the waistline on one's trousers can slip down. In the picture, a belt is being worn.

NUTLEY BOY · 21-01-2015 01:18PM

None of this carry on ever matched the fashionably tilted wig

FreudianSlippers · 21-01-2015 01:26PM

NUTLEY BOY wrote: »

None of this carry on ever matched the fashionably tilted wig

Ladies/men with fringes/quiffs outside the wig

NUTLEY BOY · 21-01-2015 01:31PM

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Ladies/men with fringes/quiffs outside the wig

You are right. I must admit that I really thinking of the crumpled Rumpole effect !

nuac · 21-01-2015 01:45PM

NUTLEY BOY wrote: »

You are right. I must admit that I really thinking of the crumpled Rumpole effect !

One of the best and busiest junior counsel of his time was the late John Willie O'Connor of the Western Circuit.

Neither his wig nor gown were in pristine condition, but in modern parlance he was the goto guy on that circuit

pedroeibar1 · 21-01-2015 04:02PM

Yorky wrote: »

........ it took studied effort to maintain it in such a position. Frankly, he looked like a pretentious prat. ..........

That describes many barristers, even outside of Court. You should see what they are like after they've been benched!:)
Like nuac's JW O'C, there was another sartorially inelegant barrister in Dublin, a chainsmoker who often smoked an entire cigarette without removing it from his mouth, invariably seen with white ash stains down his front, which had become gray over time. He also collected swill locally for his pigs, placing it in the back of his three-wheeler Lambretta scootervan. Occasionally did this dressed for court but without wig/gown. A gentleman ; highly regarded locally, and not just because he often did not charge locals.

AnnaStezia · 21-01-2015 10:22PM

Was this another Horace ? Dalkey ?

Wildlife Actor · 21-01-2015 10:36PM

The fact that the gown's there at all in the 21st century is silly enough. After that it's only a matter of degree. You may as well wrap it up and wear it as a turban, it's only marginally dafter than having it at all.

21-01-2015 11:04PM

Love nor Money wrote: »

The fact that the gown's there at all in the 21st century is silly enough. After that it's only a matter of degree. You may as well wrap it up and wear it as a turban, it's only marginally dafter than having it at all.

I guess it's that time of year again: the annual "Gowns are Outdated" thread. On your marks...

Wildlife Actor · 21-01-2015 11:15PM

234 wrote: »

I guess it's that time of year again: the annual "Gowns are Outdated" thread. On your marks...

Actually, you're right, they're perfectly normal.

johnnyskeleton · 22-01-2015 12:26AM

Yorky wrote: »

Having been present in court several times recently I've noticed many barristers wear their gowns off both shoulders, often just above elbow level. At today's sitting the barristers movements were visibly impeded and the gown required regular adjustment by wearing the gown in such a way. I was (mildly) tempted to go and pull it up for him.

Is it some sort of quasi fashion statement?

It is in honour of Justitia, the symbol of the courts. She is a statue of a woman blindfolded with scales in one hand, a knife in the other and she is bare chested. The blindfold represents impartiality, the scales balance, the dagger punishment and the bare chestedness is a traditional symbol of honesty in classical art.

By wearing the gown around their waist, the barrister is exposing their chest in a signal to the judge that they are telling the truth at that particular point. As they move onto shakier ground, they tug the gown up to signify that they are about to commence the untrue/legally sketchy part of the submission.

Carawaystick · 22-01-2015 02:08AM

so the Sun newspaper is going to be that little bit less honest in the future....

gozunda · 22-01-2015 03:45AM

Yorky wrote: »

Having been present in court several times recently I've noticed many barristers wear their gowns off both shoulders, often just above elbow level. At today's sitting the barristers movements were visibly impeded and the gown required regular adjustment by wearing the gown in such a way. I was (mildly) tempted to go and pull it up for him.

Is it some sort of quasi fashion statement?

I believe its a fashion that's been around for some time ...

FreudianSlippers · 22-01-2015 09:53AM

Love nor Money wrote: »

The fact that the gown's there at all in the 21st century is silly enough. After that it's only a matter of degree. You may as well wrap it up and wear it as a turban, it's only marginally dafter than having it at all.

I like to call this "gown envy".

hullaballoo · 22-01-2015 12:22PM

We really ought to update ourselves as professionals. We're supposed to be representatives. We should consult with our clients before trial and mimic their dress. Granted, this may require an element of cross-dressing and quite a lot of unnecessary jewellery but surely it's the only true way to fulfil our representative capacities?

Either that or animal skins, depending on your style.

22-01-2015 12:33PM

hullaballoo wrote: »

We really ought to update ourselves as professionals. We're supposed to be representatives. We should consult with our clients before trial and mimic their dress. Granted, this may require an element of cross-dressing and quite a lot of unnecessary jewellery but surely it's the only true way to fulfil our representative capacities?

Either that or animal skins, depending on your style.

Matching tracksuits for all. Polyester for the juniors, and silk ones for SCs (have to keep some of the traditions).

hullaballoo · 22-01-2015 12:50PM

Leaning more towards the animal skins now. This could easily be determined by the Hogwarts sorting hat before being called.

MarkAnthony · 22-01-2015 01:35PM

Yorky · 25-01-2015 07:35PM

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

That describes many barristers, even outside of Court. You should see what they are like after they've been benched!:)
Like nuac's JW O'C, there was another sartorially inelegant barrister in Dublin, a chainsmoker who often smoked an entire cigarette without removing it from his mouth, invariably seen with white ash stains down his front, which had become gray over time. He also collected swill locally for his pigs, placing it in the back of his three-wheeler Lambretta scootervan. Occasionally did this dressed for court but without wig/gown. A gentleman ; highly regarded locally, and not just because he often did not charge locals.

This Barrister was different - his sartorial style and personal grooming were flawless and had a healthy athletic build. Possibly quite proficient too as he was representing IBRC. It was just the jaunty gown that gave me the impression of inverted preening vanity.

Wildlife Actor · 25-01-2015 09:57PM

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I like to call this "gown envy".

Gown fatigue, as a matter of fact.

hullaballoo · 25-01-2015 10:20PM

Love nor Money wrote: »

Gown fatigue, as a matter of fact.

Fatigues are worn going into battle. As a matter of fact.

Wildlife Actor · 25-01-2015 10:54PM

hullaballoo wrote: »

Fatigues are worn going into battle. As a matter of fact.

Oh I see, it's not just a job like other people's. It's war. Bit of a soldier fetish going on there.

Barrister's attire

Comments