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war in Ukraine

  • 25-01-2015 05:34AM
    #1
    wendell borton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,335 ✭✭✭


    The trouble in Ukraine is looking like a Russian invasion rather than internal dissent.
    Post edited by Ten of Swords on


«134

Comments

  • #2
    waulie_palnuts
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54 ✭✭waulie_palnuts


    That's the trouble with Russians.


  • #3
    Nino Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭Nino Brown


    wendell borton wrote: »
    The trouble in Ukraine is looking like a Russian invasion rather than internal dissent.

    Couldn't be, Putin says there aren't any Russian troops in Ukraine. I think we can trust the president of Russia!!


  • #4
    AlanS181824
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭AlanS181824


    I wonder why Crimea is never mentioned in the news anymore as I high doubt the situation has been sorted.


  • #5
    Dunny
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭Dunny


    wendell borton wrote: »
    The trouble in Ukraine is looking like a Russian invasion rather than internal dissent.

    No way.


  • #6
    entropi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭entropi


    wendell borton wrote: »
    The trouble in Ukraine is looking like a Russian invasion rather than internal dissent.
    I hear that aul Vladimir himself is a totally trustworthy guy, and would never propose to invade a democratic unitary state like that. Not at all...


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  • #7
    Menas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,318 ✭✭✭✭Menas


    AlanS181824 wrote: »
    I wonder why Crimea is never mentioned in the news anymore as I high doubt the situation has been sorted.

    Oh that situation is very much sorted. It has returned to Russian ownership and there is nothing anyone can, or is willing, to do about it.


  • #8
    moleyv
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,583 ✭✭✭moleyv


    Nino Brown wrote:
    Couldn't be, Putin says there aren't any Russian troops in Ukraine. I think we can trust the president of Russia!!


    The Russian foreign minister came out last week and said something along the lines of:

    It is no secret that there are Russian soldiers in Ukraine.


  • #9
    MRnotlob606
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,642 ✭✭✭MRnotlob606


    Russia is securing Russian Interests.


  • #10
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,247 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    MRnotlob606 wrote: »
    Russia is securing Russian Interests.

    ...... is the worst excuse imaginable for conquering the lands of other sovereign nations.


  • #11
    old_aussie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,409 ✭✭✭old_aussie


    The trouble in Ukraine is looking like a Russian invasion rather than internal dissent.

    Looked like that from the start.


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  • #12
    BrianDug
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 163 ✭✭BrianDug


    BoJack Horseman wrote: »
    ...... is the worst excuse imaginable for conquering the lands of other sovereign nations.

    Yes, let's just all forget about the violent coup that started all this. Removing the democratically elected president.


  • #13
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,247 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    BrianDug wrote: »
    Yes, let's just all forget about the violent coup that started all this. Removing the democratically elected president.

    Coups happen all the time, people overthrow governments.

    It isn't a legitimate excuse for a neighbouring nation to invade & conquer.


  • #14
    old_aussie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,409 ✭✭✭old_aussie


    AlanS181824 wrote: »
    I wonder why Crimea is never mentioned in the news anymore as I high doubt the situation has been sorted.

    Because the Russians realised what they had got back moments after they retook the Crimea.


  • #15
    DeadHand
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭DeadHand


    BoJack Horseman wrote: »
    Coups happen all the time, people overthrow governments.

    It isn't a legitimate excuse for a neighbouring nation to invade & conquer.

    They haven't conquered anyone.

    The rebellion in the East has broad, popular support of the people in that region and had it's origins in resistance against a violent coup that overthrew a democratically elected government. Russia moved into the Crimea in much the same way that the USA might move into Florida. It was Russian anyway in all but name. The referendum results confirmed this. Generations of Russians have spilled blood over it, it's theirs.

    The Crimea only found itself as part of the Ukraine because Khrushchev got drunk one evening and decided to throw his fellow Ukrainians a bone by making Crimea officially part of Ukraine. It didn't matter much at the time as they were all part of the USSR anyway. When the USSR collapsed, Russia simply rented Sevastopol and were content to let things be. When the Pro-European coup occurred, it brought with it the prospect of NATO warships in the historic, crucial Russian port of Sevastopol. Russia could no more tolerate this than Britain could tolerate Russian warships in Portsmouth or the USA could tolerate Chinese warships in Pearl Harbour.

    Russia isn't expanding West, it's defending itself and it's sphere of influence against NATO and EU expansion East, an expansion occurring despite NATO's promises not to.

    Of course Russia is cynically interfering in the Ukrainian conflict. That's realpolitik, the way of the world. All global powers do this. They all attempt to keep their rivals out of their sphere of influence. Look at the USA's history of changing regimes in the Americas that they didn't agree with. Look at the Bay of Pigs. If tomorrow, a Pro-Russian group seized power in Mexico American tanks would be pouring over the border in jig time. If tomorrow, North Korea installed a pro-American government it would find itself flooded with Chinese troops and armour and subject to a massive Communist counter revolution.

    The hypocrisy shown by the EU and Nato over this issue is staggering. NATO complains of Russian expansionism and aggression, neatly ignoring the fact American and NATO troops are everywhere. The EU complains of Russian disdain for democracy and fixed referendums, neatly ignoring the fact no organisation in the free world does more to circumvent democracy than the EU and the EU itself has fixed referendums itself to impose their will on nations, most notably in this country.

    So, yeah...


  • #16
    KomradeBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    Once Ukraine was destabilized by the US-backed coup attempt, and a civil war began for control of the country, a Russian invasion (covert or overt) - as illegal and reprehensible as that is - was kind of inevitable, given how massive a thread a NATO-controlled Ukraine would be to Russia (right on Russia's doorstep, with by far the longest stretch of border shared with Russia, of any European nation).

    Destabilizing Ukraine was an utterly stupid decision by the US - great way to trigger a new Cold War, and general breakdown of relations between multiple nuclear powers.


  • #17
    Desolation Of Smug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 760 ✭✭✭Desolation Of Smug


    KomradeBishop wrote: »
    Once Ukraine was destabilized by the US-backed coup attempt, and a civil war began for control of the country, a Russian invasion (covert or overt) - as illegal and reprehensible as that is - was kind of inevitable, given how massive a thread a NATO-controlled Ukraine would be to Russia (right on Russia's doorstep, with by far the longest stretch of border shared with Russia, of any European nation).

    Destabilizing Ukraine was an utterly stupid decision by the US - great way to trigger a new Cold War, and general breakdown of relations between multiple nuclear powers.

    Meh, there's lots of money to be made from long, drawn out minor conflict. I doubt stupidity came into the equation.


  • #18
    wretcheddomain
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,094 ✭✭✭wretcheddomain


    DeadHand wrote: »
    They haven't conquered anyone.

    The rebellion in the East has broad, popular support of the people in that region and had it's origins in resistance against a violent coup that overthrew a democratically elected government. Russia moved into the Crimea in much the same way that the USA might move into Florida. It was Russian anyway in all but name. The referendum results confirmed this. Generations of Russians have spilled blood over it, it's theirs.

    Ukraine is a sovereign state, Florida is a state of a sovereign state. Big difference.

    Even a US-backed coup is not sufficient justification for Russian annexation of neighbouring territory. As bad and stupid as the former may be, it pales in comparison to the illegality of the latter.

    This round of Russian annexation isn't even a new phenomenon, as Putin appears to glorify the old days of the Soviet Union, fantasising about its return on the world stage.

    The leftists always reach a new low by doing everything in their power to justify the actions of this backward thug.

    If there were broad popular support in Cork to merge with the UK, would you support the UK holding a referendum there and annexing the territory?


  • #19
    Streetwalker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,906 ✭✭✭Streetwalker


    MRnotlob606 wrote: »
    Russia is securing Russian Interests.

    The thing is they know they'll achieve their goals imo. Nobody in the west has the balls to take them on. It's one thing sending troops, aircraft, drones etc.. to take out a few guys in 4x4's with swords or a joke shop army like the Iraqi's it's another confronting an army with tactical nukes in their arsenal. I honestly think we will see the old soviet union restored in 25 years time.

    Also Putin is a hero in Russia and economic sanctions aren't having an effect, if anything it's having an adverse effect on Europe.


  • #20
    The_Valeyard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭The_Valeyard


    You mean a revolution that threw out a corrupt leader who is now on an Interpol arrest list?

    The Russian arming and supporting of the Eastern militias is unacceptable. Those militias are probbably Russian troops in different colours.


  • #21
    moc moc a moc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,298 ✭✭✭moc moc a moc


    wendell borton wrote: »
    The trouble in Ukraine is looking like a Russian invasion rather than internal dissent.

    You don't say! Some fine detective skills there, son.


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  • #22
    The_Valeyard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭The_Valeyard


    Putin: Its not Ukraine, its Mykraine.


  • #23
    wretcheddomain
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,094 ✭✭✭wretcheddomain


    moc moc a moc wrote: »
    You don't say! Some fine detective skills there, son.

    Thanks for putin him in his place!


  • #24
    Egginacup
    Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    wendell borton wrote: »
    The trouble in Ukraine is looking like a Russian invasion rather than internal dissent.


    I thought the Russians invaded months ago. At least that's what the press and western governments were saying.


  • #25
    Egginacup
    Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    Streetwalker wrote: »
    The thing is they know they'll achieve their goals imo. Nobody in the west has the balls to take them on. It's one thing sending troops, aircraft, drones etc.. to take out a few guys in 4x4's with swords or a joke shop army like the Iraqi's it's another confronting an army with tactical nukes in their arsenal. I honestly think we will see the old soviet union restored in 25 years time.

    Also Putin is a hero in Russia and economic sanctions aren't having an effect, if anything it's having an adverse effect on Europe.

    Why would Putin want to reconstitute the old Soviet Union? He was instrumental in bringing the USSR down in 1991.


  • #26
    Egginacup
    Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    moleyv wrote: »
    The Russian foreign minister came out last week and said something along the lines of:

    It is no secret that there are Russian soldiers in Ukraine.


    source?


  • #27
    Egginacup
    Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    BoJack Horseman wrote: »
    ...... is the worst excuse imaginable for conquering the lands of other sovereign nations.

    So why do you Americans keep using it then? Why not just say you're robbing oil instead of "securing American interests"?


  • #28
    irish coldplayer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 203 ✭✭irish coldplayer


    Egginacup wrote: »
    Why would Putin want to reconstitute the old Soviet Union? He was instrumental in bringing the USSR down in 1991.

    Perhaps because he called the fall of the USSR the "greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th century"

    Also have you a source on how he was instrumental in bringing down the USSR?


  • #29
    Egginacup
    Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    BoJack Horseman wrote: »
    Coups happen all the time, people overthrow governments.

    It isn't a legitimate excuse for a neighbouring nation to invade & conquer.

    It damn well is when that western orchestrated coup results in the installation of a neo-nazi junta hell bent on genocide against the ethnic Russian population of the country.
    You seem to think it's ok for the US to invade countries when IS are killing civilians or Ghadaffi is allegedly giving his troops viagra to rape people :pac: , but it's not ok for Russia to invade a country when RUSSIANS are being massacred by the scum that you installed.

    You see, you can't have it both ways pal. Practice what you preach or hold your tongue.


  • #30
    Menas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,318 ✭✭✭✭Menas


    Egginacup wrote: »
    Why would Putin want to reconstitute the old Soviet Union? He was instrumental in bringing the USSR down in 1991.

    No he didnt.
    Putin was behind a desk in Dresden pushing data at the time of the collapse.


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  • #31
    wretcheddomain
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,094 ✭✭✭wretcheddomain


    Egginacup wrote: »
    It damn well is when that western orchestrated coup results in the installation of a neo-nazi junta hell bent on genocide against the ethnic Russian population of the country.

    I assume, then, that you would be opposed to Russian intervention in Ukraine if it wasn't a "neo-Nazi junta hell bent on genocide against the ethnic Russian population"?

    By the way, it's possible to be simultaneously against US intervention and Russian intervention. You seem to be erecting a false position that if one is against one form of intervention, we are somehow supportive of the other.


This discussion has been closed.
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