Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Read Mod Warning in OP 7/1/15

homerjay2005 · 12-01-2015 10:24AM

I thought Blind was our best player yesterday though he wasn't playing in the primary position he was signed for.

advertsfox · 12-01-2015 10:26AM

Oh my...

https://vine.co/v/ODa1gV0LVFa

12-01-2015 10:28AM

Love players like Blind, pretty much unaffected by form and you get everything from him no matter what the time. Classic United player, too many players in the team lack the United mentality late in games these days.

bucketybuck · 12-01-2015 10:36AM

RobertKK wrote: »

We need a midfielder who links up the defense and attack and maybe United should go all out to get Schneiderlin in, he is proven in the PL and on a trajectory going in the right direction.

I'm not even sure the answer is to throw more new players at the team, not until the manager pulls his finger out and implements a workable style of play.

Schneiderlin looks great now because he knows his job and whats happening around him, at United he would probably be shoved in beside Carrick and spend 6 months needing to settle in because everything around him is a mess.

All the "philosophy" bull**** always rankled with me but if LVG has one he seriously needs to start doing something with it. A good start would be to use the resources he has effectively instead of constantly playing people out of position, to me that **** just smacks of a manager believing his own hype.

Mars Bar · 12-01-2015 10:39AM

With both wing backs advancing we've been left with 3v3 at the back and sometimes 4v3 in favour of the opposition and the defenders are just all over the place. It's sh!te.

Mitch Connor · 12-01-2015 10:40AM

bucketybuck wrote: »

I'm not even sure the answer is to throw more new players at the team, not until the manager pulls his finger out and implements a workable style of play.

I certainly wouldn't be throwing money at that situation until it is clear what we are going to do with Blind, Carrick, Herrera and Di Maria.

Based on teh 442 we irritatingly briefly played prior to the injury crisis - I'd have a lot of faith that a midfield of Blind, Di Maria, Herrera/Carrick and Mata would be capable of connecting defence to attack and doing it well.

markcahill1985 · 12-01-2015 10:44AM

Really was strange to have di Maria playing ahead of Rooney yesterday - he was prob going for the Robben affect from the world cup but hope he doesnt persist with it. ADM is at his absolute best when running at the defense from midfield - hope he sorts that out! Wont even comment on the Falcao situation that was just crazy considering we had 3 CB's on the bench

The_Kew_Tour · 12-01-2015 10:47AM

The injuries have not helped that is for sure, but leaving that aside the amount of players not playing in their regular position is only asking for trouble.

We have been on a good run results wise, we can't complain there.

The performances have been hit and miss, mostly the latter.

I thought the Liverpool or Southampton away results(even though we were v poor) might see a change in better performances, but so far its been slowly getting worse, not better.

Your Airbag · 12-01-2015 10:51AM

I said months ago that LVG gets away with murder compared to the stick Moyes got last season. As early as a couple of months into his reign.

Can you imagine the meltdown if Moyes had left Falcao out of the sqaud, taken off RVP for a defender, played ADM up front then subbed him, and then threw Fellaini up front when we went a goal behind. There would be personal abuse and meme's everywhere.

Moyes was terrible in interviews, saying things like "we aspire to be like City" did him no favors along with the rigid tactics and sticking to a system the fans didn't like but that's exactly what LVG is doing. A slight improvement in style but that's it, where else is the difference?

LVG talks in interviews like a man with no self-doubt but its getting to the point of me thinking is it confidence or is he an ego-maniac, but even he suggested we should be more like City in an interview this season. He seems oblivious to questioning him-self, even in interviews after a loss he just goes with of course we need to do better but then goes an picks the 5-3-2 week after week.

Looking back Moyes was doomed from the start. A SAF team used to playing the SAF way that revolted against him. An aging and very weak in MF SAF squad. Moyes was expected to win the League when he came in, LVG with a 100m + spend is expected to get top four. The breaks LVG gets are staggering when you think about it.

I'm not saying I'd prefer Moyes , he had the wrong personality for us but I feel sorry for him now as so much was against him from the start, he made mistakes along the way but given time to build his squad he could have done better. LVG was supposed to have us playing with style and confidence and none of the two have happened. We are poor in the final third and with the names on display and cash spent this should not be the case. This week he had almost a full squad to pick from and he goes with that starting XI in a 5-3-2 with players out of position

LVG needs to do the following right now

Strengthen the defense in this transfer window
drop the 5-3-2
4 at the back at all times
switch to 4-4-3 with everybody in their best positions
stop the RVP infatuation, not exactly drop him but Falcao should take his starting spot and leave RVP be the impact sub
Decide between Rooney or Mata as a no.10

and most of all, find your best XI and formation and start playing it regularly unless injuries prevent it. Its certainly not 5-3-2 with the team you selected yesterday.

We need consistency. Getting sick of this picking ourselves up and having to go again scenario after another loss. We are creating f'all with a great attacking line up and its unacceptable.

markcahill1985 · 12-01-2015 10:52AM

Delboy5 wrote: »

Seems to be a lot of chatter about Coleman to Man Utd..........

Where you seeing this?

bangkok · 12-01-2015 10:52AM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

The injuries have not helped that is for sure, but leaving that aside the amount of players not playing in their regular position is only asking for trouble.

We have been on a good run results wise, we can't complain there.

The performances have been hit and miss, mostly the latter.

I thought the Liverpool or Southampton away results(even though we were v poor) might see a change in better performances, but so far its been slowly getting worse, not better.

6 points from a possible 15 in last 5 games is not a good run. Shocking in fact and the performances have been pure rubbish.

bucketybuck · 12-01-2015 10:58AM

bangkok wrote: »

6 points from a possible 15 in last 5 games is not a good run. Shocking in fact and the performances have been pure rubbish.

I'm happy to take the good with the bad in terms of results or points, its the performances that matter long term, and the performances have been really really poor all season. We were utterly blessed to win against the likes of Arsenal, Liverpool and Southampton and that luck was always going to change.

Your Airbag · 12-01-2015 10:58AM

GSPfan wrote: »

Can we all agree its a 532 and not a 352.

Start by telling the players. They don't seem to know themselves what they are playing.

advertsfox wrote: »

A little note on the game yesterday, Blind getting his game with Carrick was great - delighted to have him back and both players on the pitch.

Our fixtures coming up - the next 8 games should ideally bring us no less that 21 points.

I posted our next 7 games list before yday's game saying they are all winnable, but here we are.

With LVG going with 5-3-2 when he has a full squad, playing players out of position, making poor subs and leaving world class talent out of the squad I have no confidence of us going on a run now

Ordinary man · 12-01-2015 11:00AM

Your Airbag wrote: »

I said months ago that LVG gets away with murder compared to the stick Moyes got last season. As early as a couple of months into his reign.

Can you imagine the meltdown if Moyes had left Falcao out of the sqaud, taken off RVP for a defender, played ADM up front then subbed him, and then threw Fellaini up front when we went a goal behind. There would be personal abuse and meme's everywhere.

Moyes was terrible in interviews, saying things like "we aspire to be like City" did him no favors along with the rigid tactics and sticking to a system the fans didn't like but that's exactly what LVG is doing. A slight improvement in style but that's it, where else is the difference?

LVG talks in interviews like a man with no self-doubt but its getting to the point of me thinking is it confidence or is he an ego-maniac, but even he suggested we should be more like City in an interview this season. He seems oblivious to questioning him-self, even in interviews after a loss he just goes with of course we need to do better but then goes an picks the 5-3-2 week after week.

Looking back Moyes was doomed from the start. A SAF team used to playing the SAF way that revolted against him. An aging and very weak in MF SAF squad. Moyes was expected to win the League when he came in, LVG with a 100m + spend is expected to get top four. The breaks LVG gets are staggering when you think about it.

I'm not saying I'd prefer Moyes , he had the wrong personality for us but I feel sorry for him now as so much was against him from the start, he made mistakes along the way but given time to build his squad he could have done better. LVG was supposed to have us playing with style and confidence and none of the two have happened. We are poor in the final third and with the names on display and cash spent this should not be the case. This week he had almost a full squad to pick from and he goes with that starting XI in a 5-3-2 with players out of position

LVG needs to do the following right now
Strengthen the defense in this transfer window

drop the 5-3-2

4 at the back at all times

switch to 4-4-3 with everybody in their best positions

stop the RVP infatuation, not exactly drop him but Falcao should take his starting spot and leave RVP be the impact sub

Decide between Rooney or Mata as a no.10

and most of all, find your best XI and formation and start playing it regularly unless injuries prevent it. Its certainly not 5-3-2 with the team you selected yesterday.

We need consistency. Getting sick of this picking ourselves up and having to go again scenario after another loss. We are creating f'all with a great attacking line up and its unacceptable.

The 4-4-3 would be a help alright

bangkok · 12-01-2015 11:02AM

Your Airbag wrote: »

I said months ago that LVG gets away with murder compared to the stick Moyes got last season. As early as a couple of months into his reign.

Can you imagine the meltdown if Moyes had left Falcao out of the sqaud, taken off RVP for a defender, played ADM up front then subbed him, and then threw Fellaini up front when we went a goal behind. There would be personal abuse and meme's everywhere.

Moyes was terrible in interviews, saying things like "we aspire to be like City" did him no favors along with the rigid tactics and sticking to a system the fans didn't like but that's exactly what LVG is doing. A slight improvement in style but that's it, where else is the difference?

LVG talks in interviews like a man with no self-doubt but its getting to the point of me thinking is it confidence or is he an ego-maniac, but even he suggested we should be more like City in an interview this season. He seems oblivious to questioning him-self, even in interviews after a loss he just goes with of course we need to do better but then goes an picks the 5-3-2 week after week.

Looking back Moyes was doomed from the start. A SAF team used to playing the SAF way that revolted against him. An aging and very weak in MF SAF squad. Moyes was expected to win the League when he came in, LVG with a 100m + spend is expected to get top four. The breaks LVG gets are staggering when you think about it.

I'm not saying I'd prefer Moyes , he had the wrong personality for us but I feel sorry for him now as so much was against him from the start, he made mistakes along the way but given time to build his squad he could have done better. LVG was supposed to have us playing with style and confidence and none of the two have happened. We are poor in the final third and with the names on display and cash spent this should not be the case. This week he had almost a full squad to pick from and he goes with that starting XI in a 5-3-2 with players out of position

LVG needs to do the following right now
Strengthen the defense in this transfer window

drop the 5-3-2

4 at the back at all times

switch to 4-4-3 with everybody in their best positions

stop the RVP infatuation, not exactly drop him but Falcao should take his starting spot and leave RVP be the impact sub

Decide between Rooney or Mata as a no.10

and most of all, find your best XI and formation and start playing it regularly unless injuries prevent it. Its certainly not 5-3-2 with the team you selected yesterday.

We need consistency. Getting sick of this picking ourselves up and having to go again scenario after another loss. We are creating f'all with a great attacking line up and its unacceptable.

what did de gea do to get dropped?

Average-Ro · 12-01-2015 11:05AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I reckon a centre back and Coleman will be our January signings. CB could come later with the 3 targets being tough to get, won't be quick signings and could end up getting a fall back option in the last week.

Do other people think we'll be making first team signings this window?

We need them, and I hope to see them; but I have a crappy feeling that no big signings will be made this month.

Mitch Connor · 12-01-2015 11:05AM

Your Airbag wrote: »

I said months ago that LVG gets away with murder compared to the stick Moyes got last season. As early as a couple of months into his reign.

Can you imagine the meltdown if Moyes had left Falcao out of the sqaud, taken off RVP for a defender, played ADM up front then subbed him, and then threw Fellaini up front when we went a goal behind. There would be personal abuse and meme's everywhere.

Moyes was terrible in interviews, saying things like "we aspire to be like City" did him no favors along with the rigid tactics and sticking to a system the fans didn't like but that's exactly what LVG is doing. A slight improvement in style but that's it, where else is the difference?

LVG talks in interviews like a man with no self-doubt but its getting to the point of me thinking is it confidence or is he an ego-maniac, but even he suggested we should be more like City in an interview this season. He seems oblivious to questioning him-self, even in interviews after a loss he just goes with of course we need to do better but then goes an picks the 5-3-2 week after week.

Looking back Moyes was doomed from the start. A SAF team used to playing the SAF way that revolted against him. An aging and very weak in MF SAF squad. Moyes was expected to win the League when he came in, LVG with a 100m + spend is expected to get top four. The breaks LVG gets are staggering when you think about it.

I'm not saying I'd prefer Moyes , he had the wrong personality for us but I feel sorry for him now as so much was against him from the start, he made mistakes along the way but given time to build his squad he could have done better. LVG was supposed to have us playing with style and confidence and none of the two have happened. We are poor in the final third and with the names on display and cash spent this should not be the case. This week he had almost a full squad to pick from and he goes with that starting XI in a 5-3-2 with players out of position

LVG needs to do the following right now
Strengthen the defense in this transfer window

drop the 5-3-2

4 at the back at all times

switch to 4-4-3 with everybody in their best positions

stop the RVP infatuation, not exactly drop him but Falcao should take his starting spot and leave RVP be the impact sub

Decide between Rooney or Mata as a no.10

and most of all, find your best XI and formation and start playing it regularly unless injuries prevent it. Its certainly not 5-3-2 with the team you selected yesterday.

We need consistency. Getting sick of this picking ourselves up and having to go again scenario after another loss. We are creating f'all with a great attacking line up and its unacceptable.

Agree with all of that (formation typo aside).

I don't think Moyes was expected (by most sensible fans) to win the league. I expected the start of a rebuilding (which didn't happen) and a top 4 spot.

LVG yesterday was as perplexing and irritating has Moyes was. Formation, positional selections and substitutions were all wrong.

442, as we have both said, with players in their correct positions needs to happen.

bangkok · 12-01-2015 11:08AM

De Gea

Rafael

Smalling

Rojo

Shaw

Carrick

Blind

Mata

Rooney

Di maria

Falcao

hopefully will be the team v QPR

Blatter · 12-01-2015 11:09AM

The difference between LvG and Moyes is that the players respect LvG far more. The players looked despondent under Moyes, I don't think that's the case now. They seem to be fairly happy to get right behind him. That, and LvG's track record gives me hope. It felt like there was never going to be any light at the end of the tunnel under Moyes.

That's a big difference but as I said yesterday, LvG would want to get his head out of his ass and cop on with this 3 at the back lark. You just know Giggs wouldn't be a fan of it either but LvG is either not listening to him or has convinced him otherwise.

TheDoc · 12-01-2015 11:10AM

A thought has been filtering around my head this morning, probably ideal for here, for a Monday morning discussion

So obviously the "stats" have been coming hard yesterday evening and this morning. We are on the same points as this time last year with one less goal. While we are in 4th, it's more an indication of the standard of the teams around us, being utter drival. Three points from a possible twelve, where taking 9 would actually have us a somewhat genuine title contenders, in touching distance of Chelsea after both Chelsea and City dropped points in their last 4.

Around this time last year, the heat was really on for Moyes. Poor results, teams coming and winning at Old Trafford, poor performances, stories of unrest in the dressing room and a manager fronting a less then convincing figure.

I've edited this post a few times to cut the length down, so I'll somewhat summarise it here, and if people want to wade in then thats probably better.

Moyes had some pretty compelling defences and excuses for last season, something that I felt people were all to quick to disregard. Yet this season we are using the "injury" excuse as it suits us to mask up poor performances and results. It was only a week or two ago, where Sky were running inforgraphs about how we had conceeded only one more goal then Chelsea. Our haphazard gaffer tapped defence, coneeded one more goal then the infallable Chelsea blockade.

Just wondering are we giving Van Gaal too easy a pass? Should we expect more? Does his stature, ego and record make him unquestionable to ommiting Falcao from the squad? From persisting with a formation that just isn't working.

Have to say personally, my concerns about the direction we are going isn't exactly settled. I definitly got caught up in the worldwind of his stature and reputation, and definitly made some grand assumptions. But half way through the season, we still look as disjointed and gastly going forward as we did last season.

EDIT* In the process of writing and editing this, appears the discussion already started haha

markcahill1985 · 12-01-2015 11:11AM

Average-Ro wrote: »

Do other people think we'll be making first team signings this window?

We need them, and I hope to see them; but I have a crappy feeling that no big signings will be made this month.

Cant see major signings TBH - maybe a Vlaar as a stop gap

12-01-2015 11:15AM

Mars Bar wrote: »

With both wing backs advancing we've been left with 3v3 at the back and sometimes 4v3 in favour of the opposition and the defenders are just all over the place. It's sh!te.

This. Been saying it for weeks.

Lord TSC · 12-01-2015 11:16AM

I'm nowhere near worrying about LVG yet tbh.

My main concern is that for all people want a first team defender brought in, our problem yesterday wasn't that we conceded, it was that we couldn't score. Still haven't seen stats but it felt like we dominated possession. But a huge part of that felt like the defence would pass to Carrick, who passed it back, who passed it to Rooney, who pinged it out wide and then that was the end of the attack. Counter attacks were non-existent, with them dying constantly in midfield and on the wings.

If Rooney is being persisted with in a non-striker role (and we have to wonder why it seems Fergie, Moyes and LVG all seem to not want him up front), then I feel our main priorities should be wingers this window, simply because Rooney puts everything out to them and then they do nothing with the ball. If we could replace Valencia with a proper winger, if we could switch to a formation where our wingers have support from full backs and vice versa, I think we'd improve drastically.

With Hummels or Varane or whoever yesterday, chances are it would have been 0-0 instead of 0-1. Still wouldn't have changed our inability to counter attack and penetrate the opposition defense, a problem which wasn't just there yesterday but for the last 18 months.

Mitch Connor · 12-01-2015 11:20AM

markcahill1985 wrote: »

Cant see major signings TBH - maybe a Vlaar as a stop gap

with Vlaar injured I can't see us signing him.

sky88 · 12-01-2015 11:22AM

i think the one of the main problems with 352 yesterday is that we dont have proper wingbacks. we have shaw who i think is very good defensively but not great attacking and valencia whos pace troubles oppositions defence but he does not have any end product at all. For the formation to work you need the wingbacks giving good supply and only really got this when blind switch to wingback.

Mitch Connor · 12-01-2015 11:23AM

Lord TSC wrote: »

I
With Hummels or Varane or whoever yesterday, chances are it would have been 0-0 instead of 0-1. Still wouldn't have changed our inability to counter attack and penetrate the opposition defense, a problem which wasn't just there yesterday but for the last 18 months.

Maybe, (and I'll admit this could be me clinging to hope) we are playing 3 at the back because LVG doesn't sufficiently trust the CBs he has to play two. But with a new, higher calibre, CB brought in then maybe LVG would go to 4 at the back and thus give us more/better options at bringing the ball forward.

Clutching at straws maybe.

If he sticks with 532 we are boned. too conservative.

TheDoc · 12-01-2015 11:24AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

with Vlaar injured I can't see us signing him.

Yeah he is out for 6 weeks, and that was the positive outlook by Lambart.

TheDoc · 12-01-2015 11:31AM

What I don't understand about Wingbacks is that, what is the difference with the LB/RB in a back four?

Every modern fullback get's forward, in the hope to create a 2v1 situation on the opposition fullback.

I simply don't see what these wingback system is providing us. We arn't pressing teams higher up the pitch. We arn't overloading the flanks and firing balls into the strikers for them to score.

Blind moving out to LWB though yesterday provided some evidence of what it does. I noticed him press a lot higher up the pitch. his delivery was sharp and he whipped in two lovely crosses. He worked the wing and did manage to overload Clyne.

But outside of that, I'm struggling to see where it happens regularly, and what benefit it brings over a conventional back four.

We play three CB's against one striker in most cases, which is pretty much leaving someone their twiddling their thumbs. But yet we STILL on occasions get caught 3v3 or 4v3. Which is ridiculous.

Getting annoyed at Herrera's ommision also. A slick clever player, who drives forward and can make things happen through the middle from deep. Have a genuine fear, similar to Kagawa

bangkok · 12-01-2015 11:39AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

with Vlaar injured I can't see us signing him.

even if he wasn't injured I don't think we would have signed him anyway

Winston Payne · 12-01-2015 11:49AM

Picking the back three is absolutely to shore us up defensively. We've never convinced totally with the system but an extra central presence can only help and our record bears that out. Just imagine what it would be like taking a defender out. Van Gaal doesn't trust Herrera. That seems fairly apparent, but it needs to change if we want any attacking fluidity whatsoever. Herrera disappointed me yesterday but Mata only started to appear in the game in an attacking sense after he was subbed on. When you think that we had a striker in midfield, a holding player and an attacking midfielder detailed as a central midfielder our attacking performance yesterday doesn't come as much of a surprise. Throw in the complete lack of end product and penetration from the wingbacks (one of which isn't a wingback and the other's just an athlete) and that against the best defensive unit in the league so far, and well...

advertsfox wrote: »

A little note on the game yesterday, Blind getting his game with Carrick was great - delighted to have him back and both players on the pitch.

Our fixtures coming up - the next 8 games should ideally bring us no less that 21 points.

There's some overlap between both lists, but look at this one:
B7Fr31rCAAAA51g.png:large

We need to go on a big run NOW because our spring is brutal. Yesterday's result also makes the draws at Villa, Spurs and Stoke much worse. We'd want to have been winning two of those games and we didn't deserve to win any of them, including Spurs as games are ninety minutes and they could easily have won it in the second half. Third is par for this season and the last month has put that in big jeopardy.

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Read Mod Warning in OP 7/1/15

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