Breastfeeding in Public places

nxbyveromdwjpg · 16-12-2014 12:37AM

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Say what? You are comparing a baby being breasted to someone walking about naked in public I take it?

And why would anyone care that a few miserable, ignorant, uptight gob****es might get irrationally 'offended' and put that before their child's need to be fed? Do you really think a woman with a hungry, squawking baby would or should stop to think about this before feeding them?

Ok well it's completely clear that you don't give a **** what anyone else thinks, it's your way or they're all gobsh*tes. Just trying to establish that.

Hopefully more people don't take this attitude with other things though.

Venus In Furs · 16-12-2014 12:40AM

nm wrote: »

Case in point above.

What do you mean "Case in point"? You said there's an insistence it "must" be done in public, but it only "must" be done in public when it's necessary, not just for the sake of it.
And wanting to be able to breastfeed in public when necessary doesn't even slightly imply not giving a sh-t about others; it implies needing to feed a hungry, crying infant.

Kiwi in IE · 16-12-2014 12:41AM

nm wrote: »

Ok well it's completely clear that you don't give a **** what anyone else thinks, it's your way or they're all gobsh*tes. Just trying to establish that.

Hopefully more people don't take this attitude with other things though.

You are 100% correct. If I had a baby who was hungry and needed to be fed it would most certainly be done my way and I surely would consider anyone objecting to be a gob****e!

nxbyveromdwjpg · 16-12-2014 12:43AM

Venus In Furs wrote: »

What do you mean "Case in point"? You said there's an insistence in "must" be done in public, but it only "must" be done in public when it's necessary, not just for the sake of it.
And wanting to be able to breastfeed in public when necessary doesn't even slightly imply not giving a sh-t about others; it implies needing to feed a hungry, crying infant.

That case had a hypothetical room available specifically for breastfeeding hungry, crying infants.

The poster stated they'd refuse to use it, preferring to breastfeed in public.

So I mean exactly that - case in point.

(for the record I'd never heard of a breastfeeding room until this thread).

ceadaoin. · 16-12-2014 12:45AM

nm wrote: »

I understand just fine. You seem to be missing the point though.

What am I missing? You are equating a woman breast feeding to a woman being topless in public. In reality there is a huge difference between the two.

Mountainsandh · 16-12-2014 12:53AM

I only skimmed over the first 2 pages of the thread, and what popped at me were the phrases used : "whip out her tits" type of phrases.
I have 2 kids and chose not to breastfeed, and I do get very pi$$ed off at the propagandist type of breastfeeding supporters.

Last thing a new Mum needs to feel is guilty for choosing formula.

But I like to think some Mums are happy and enjoy fully comfortable breastfeeding, good for them and the babies.

Anyway, the whipping tits out phrases are completely over the top and really don't serve the cause Imo. My sister chose to breastfeed. I remember one or two moments of awkwardness for the first baby when she wasn't yet well used to it, and nothing since (2 babies later).
Seriously, she could be facing me breastfeeding and I would talk away unaware of anything. She doesn't whip out her tits, she just really smoothly repositions her baby. She doesn't need to tear off her shirt, or even fiddle with buttons, she just has got used to buying clothes that are discreet and offer easy access for breastfeeding. She tends to retreat and sit down a bit after a while, but I think that's just because a) it's a moment she wants to keep special between her and baby b) she just wants the bloody brat to get the job done and fall asleep 😃
I have been in restaurants many times with her in France, no shawl to cover herself, i'd say most times no one's the wiser.

volchitsa · 16-12-2014 12:56AM

nm wrote: »

That case had a hypothetical room available specifically for breastfeeding hungry, crying infants.

The poster stated they'd refuse to use it, preferring to breastfeed in public.

So I mean exactly that - case in point.

(for the record I'd never heard of a breastfeeding room until this thread).

The problem with a "breastfeeding room" - well, the problem that remains even when it is (unusually) a comfortable room as opposed to a chair in a public toilet which is the norm, ime - is that it necessitates removing yourself from what you came there to do in the first place. Self-defeating, and in some cases, for example if one has other children in tow, very bloody awkward.

Now if breastfeeding is a toilet function, then of course that would be unavoidable, but since it is a form of eating, and requires if possible a clean comfortable place rather than toilets, and since eating is normally done in public, it is hard to see why breastfed babies are so shocking that they must be kept in toilets.

Oh, and I think anyone who knows so little about breastfeeding that they had never heard of feeding rooms, (and apparently never even had occasion to wonder where women went to breastfeed their children) is poorly placed to express an opinion on the matter!

anonyanony · 16-12-2014 01:03AM

volchitsa wrote: »

The problem with a "breastfeeding room" - well, the problem that remains even when it is (unusually) a comfortable room as opposed to a chair in a public toilet which is the norm, ime - is that it necessitates removing yourself from what you came there to do in the first place. Self-defeating, and in some cases, for example if one has other children in tow, very bloody awkward.

Now if breastfeeding is a toilet function, then of course that would be unavoidable, but since it is a form of eating, and requires if possible a clean comfortable place rather than toilets, and since eating is normally done in public, it is hard to see why breastfed babies are so shocking that they must be kept in toilets.

Oh, and I think anyone who knows so little about breastfeeding that they had never heard of feeding rooms, (and apparently never even had occasion to wonder where women went to breastfeed their children) is poorly placed to express an opinion on the matter!

http://jezebel.com/texas-woman-kicked-out-of-restaurant-for-changing-babys-1619214831

Entitled mothers don't care about others some will even change diapers on the table while all watch, it's natural and the baby shouldn't be made sit in it's own poo and who cares if the other patrons care, I will do what I want.

volchitsa · 16-12-2014 01:07AM

anonyanony wrote: »

http://jezebel.com/texas-woman-kicked-out-of-restaurant-for-changing-babys-1619214831

Entitled mothers don't care about others some will even change diapers on the table while all watch, it's natural and the baby shouldn't be made sit in it's own poo and who cares if the other patrons care, I will do what I want.

That link doesn't even mention breastfeeding. Why do you think there is a connection?

seventeen sheep · 16-12-2014 01:09AM

anonyanony wrote: »

http://jezebel.com/texas-woman-kicked-out-of-restaurant-for-changing-babys-1619214831

Entitled mothers don't care about others some will even change diapers on the table while all watch, it's natural and the baby shouldn't be made sit in it's own poo and who cares if the other patrons care, I will do what I want.

Please tell me you are not actually attempting to draw a comparison between a baby feeding from its mother, and a dirty smelly nappy being changed on a restaurant table.

ceadaoin. · 16-12-2014 01:18AM

anonyanony wrote: »

http://jezebel.com/texas-woman-kicked-out-of-restaurant-for-changing-babys-1619214831

Entitled mothers don't care about others some will even change diapers on the table while all watch, it's natural and the baby shouldn't be made sit in it's own poo and who cares if the other patrons care, I will do what I want.

Feeding a hungry child is a necessity and nothing to do with 'entitlement'. Breast feeding has absolutely no impact on the people in the vicinity, most of the time you wouldn't even know it was happening.

Entitlement is thinking that babies should be removed from your sight to be fed. I'm finding it hard to comprehend what can be so offensive about breast feeding.

nxbyveromdwjpg · 16-12-2014 01:30AM

volchitsa wrote: »

The problem with a "breastfeeding room" - well, the problem that remains even when it is (unusually) a comfortable room as opposed to a chair in a public toilet which is the norm, ime - is that it necessitates removing yourself from what you came there to do in the first place. Self-defeating, and in some cases, for example if one has other children in tow, very bloody awkward.

Now if breastfeeding is a toilet function, then of course that would be unavoidable, but since it is a form of eating, and requires if possible a clean comfortable place rather than toilets, and since eating is normally done in public, it is hard to see why breastfed babies are so shocking that they must be kept in toilets.

Oh, and I think anyone who knows so little about breastfeeding that they had never heard of feeding rooms, (and apparently never even had occasion to wonder where women went to breastfeed their children) is poorly placed to express an opinion on the matter!

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, not just mothers, sorry.

The rest of your post is just proving my previous point you went against, that you're insisting on doing it in public no matter what the opinions are.

It it what it is, as I said in the beginning I don't feel in the slightest bit strongly about breastfeeding in public myself anyway, it's only the tunnel vision attitude of self righteous 'no one else matters' people and attitudes that bother me.

Sauve · 16-12-2014 01:33AM

mod

anonyanony banned

CramCycle · 16-12-2014 09:53AM

nm wrote: »

I'm sure they do, most I've seen do. But I'm going by the outrage of the original photo of the woman covering with a blanket or whatever it was, and putting it out there for comparison sake - in relation to whether or not you care about what other people think.

Take it that the breastfeeder has it covered then, my point is the same.

The point of the photo was to show that covering her up made the breastfeeding more noticeable. Did you even read the article? When she was breastfeeding you could see none of her breast, unless you took a second glance while passing, you would probably not have noticed. The fact that there is a large shawl and clearly a child underneath it, it makes it more obvious, it makes it seem like it should be covered up even though you can't see anything, more than anything, if the lady did want to be discreet, that ability was taken from her.

Sittingpretty · 16-12-2014 12:54PM

nm wrote: »

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, not just mothers, sorry.

The rest of your post is just proving my previous point you went against, that you're insisting on doing it in public no matter what the opinions are.

It it what it is, as I said in the beginning I don't feel in the slightest bit strongly about breastfeeding in public myself anyway, it's only the tunnel vision attitude of self righteous 'no one else matters' people and attitudes that bother me.

"No one else matters" except the hungry baby.

I honestly can't get my head around the objections in this thread to feeding a child as nature intended anywhere, be it in public or not.

It's incredibly juvenile as are the comparisons throughout this thread to women exposing themselves or "whipping their tits out" to quote whatever Neanderthal said that.

OldNotWIse · 16-12-2014 01:03PM

anonyanony wrote: »

http://jezebel.com/texas-woman-kicked-out-of-restaurant-for-changing-babys-1619214831

Entitled mothers don't care about others some will even change diapers on the table while all watch, it's natural and the baby shouldn't be made sit in it's own poo and who cares if the other patrons care, I will do what I want.

I was on a plane once and a woman changed her baby's nappy on the seat! Doesn't matter how cute your baby is...shít is still shít

JanaMay · 16-12-2014 01:33PM

OldNotWIse wrote: »

I was on a plane once and a woman changed her baby's nappy on the seat! Doesn't matter how cute your baby is...shít is still shít

Yep, I've often had to battle Ryanair toilets with a newborn and a stinky, runny nappy... I'd never do it on the seat. (Much as I hated bringing a baby into those toilets.) Still pooing is something we do in private, for obvious reasons, eating is something we usually do in public. Babies shouldn't have to eat in private.

Neyite · 16-12-2014 01:47PM

anonyanony wrote: »

http://jezebel.com/texas-woman-kicked-out-of-restaurant-for-changing-babys-1619214831

Entitled mothers don't care about others some will even change diapers on the table while all watch, it's natural and the baby shouldn't be made sit in it's own poo and who cares if the other patrons care, I will do what I want.

That was ONE mother making an error of judgement. The other millions of mothers around the globe don't change babies in restaurants.

I dont agree with changing a baby's nappy outside of sanitary areas, she had few options available to her - what kind of pizza place doesn't have even a wall mounted flip down changing table in their toilet? So there is fault on both sides here.

She had a 4month old, a 4 year old and an 8 year old. Presumably a buggy and changing bag and maybe shopping as well. Kids are hungry, waiting for their food, baby stinks and is wailing because of a dirty nappy.

I can kind of understand why her frustration led her to change the baby there. It sounds like she was just a stressed out mother of three and didnt think through her decision much - probably thought it would be done and dusted before anyone noticed.

If there is no changing table then you cant lie your baby down on a piss-soaked dirty floor of a toilet to change them.

You cant leave the 4 year old and 8 year old in a pizza restaurant while you toddle off to the other end of the shopping centre to the Mothercare toilet to a changing table. Apart from the risk that they'd wander off, or get taken off, you risk social services and the cops being called by the staff. You cant ask the staff to keep an eye on them, because, well, its not their job.

Other restaurants would likely refuse to let you use the toilet unless you are a customer.

It sounds like she made a split decision which in retrospect was the wrong one and was named and shamed for it. But lets tar them all with the same brush anyway.

Yeah_Right · 16-12-2014 03:09PM

Just a couple of random thoughts on this. I sort of understand that people feel uncomfortable around a woman breastfeeding. I know I do. I don't why though. I remember when my sister was breastfeeding and when friend's wifes were, I didn't tend to sit around too long. It was my own problem and I can't explain it. There is no logic to it. Half the time I didn't notice but if I did, I tended to excuse myself for a ciggie.

I get the argument a couple of posters were putting forward about how contradictory its illegal for a woman to expose her breasts in public unless a baby is attached. i don't necessarily agree with it but there is a fair bit of logic to the argument.

Question: Breastfeeding in public is protected under EU law. If a guest wanted to breast feed in my house, could I tell her she had to do it in private? Not that I would, just curious.

volchitsa · 16-12-2014 03:09PM

nm wrote: »

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, not just mothers, sorry.

The rest of your post is just proving my previous point you went against, that you're insisting on doing it in public no matter what the opinions are.

It it what it is, as I said in the beginning I don't feel in the slightest bit strongly about breastfeeding in public myself anyway, it's only the tunnel vision attitude of self righteous 'no one else matters' people and attitudes that bother me.

It may be tunnel vision, but I really can't understand your problem here. I'd love you to explain to me what exactly is the objection to babies being fed as and when they need to be fed, whether that happens to be in a restaurant or not?

You can't expect to dictate to a baby when it should be hungry. So what exactly is wrong with feeding them? Would you see a similar problem with an artificially-fed baby having its bottle in the restaurant? If not, why is breast feeding so shocking, and does it matter at all if this leads to the vast majority of babies being artificially fed even those whose mothers would have preferred to breast feed them?

volchitsa · 16-12-2014 03:11PM

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Question: Breastfeeding in public is protected under EU law. If a guest wanted to breast feed in my house, could I tell her she had to do it in private? Not that I would, just curious.

I presume not. Anti-racist legislation doesn't force you to be a non racist in your own home, so I doubt that breast feeding would have stronger protection.

The rest has already been answered, that false equivalence has no more logic to it than any other attempt to ignore context, such as a surgeon being subject to the law on GBH for cutting someone one with a knife.

OldNotWIse · 16-12-2014 03:16PM

JanaMay wrote: »

Yep, I've often had to battle Ryanair toilets with a newborn and a stinky, runny nappy... I'd never do it on the seat. (Much as I hated bringing a baby into those toilets.) Still pooing is something we do in private, for obvious reasons, eating is something we usually do in public. Babies shouldn't have to eat in private.

I know.

nxbyveromdwjpg · 16-12-2014 03:40PM

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I get the argument a couple of posters were putting forward about how contradictory its illegal for a woman to expose her breasts in public unless a baby is attached. i don't necessarily agree with it but there is a fair bit of logic to the argument.

Don't come into this thread with your logic! No logic will be heard around here, not when there are babies to be fed literally on the spot anywhere in the world irrespective of context, and only alternative is immediate death!

Sure it's exactly the same as performing emergency life saving surgery according to one poster. Yea, just the same.

Philo Beddoe · 16-12-2014 03:41PM

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Question: Breastfeeding in public is protected under EU law. If a guest wanted to breast feed in my house, could I tell her she had to do it in private? Not that I would, just curious.

Your house isn't a public place.

smash · 16-12-2014 03:42PM

Yeah_Right wrote: »

If a guest wanted to breast feed in my house, could I tell her she had to do it in private?

If she was ugly, then yes!

volchitsa · 16-12-2014 04:51PM

nm wrote: »

Don't come into this thread with your logic! No logic will be heard around here, not when there are babies to be fed literally on the spot anywhere in the world irrespective of context, and only alternative is immediate death!

Sure it's exactly the same as performing emergency life saving surgery according to one poster. Yea, just the same.

You think that is logic??

No-one said it is exactly the same, you have totally misunderstood.

However the baby probably does think the alternative is immediate death. They are programmed that way, when they want to be fed, it is immediately, and not when mum has had a chance to gather up her stuff and various older children etc and get herself off to the no doubt easily accessible feeding room that all decent restaurants make available to their customers.

Or not.

But in any case, it is at least as good a comparison as people going to the toilet in public. Have you objected to that silly comparison too, or only to the one that tries to justify your abnormally sexualized view of babies?

nxbyveromdwjpg · 16-12-2014 05:05PM

volchitsa wrote: »

You think that is logic??

No-one said it is exactly the same, you have totally misunderstood.

However the baby probably does think the alternative is immediate death. They are programmed that way, when they want to be fed, it is immediately, and not when mum has had a chance to gather up her stuff and various older children etc and get herself off to the no doubt easily available feeding room that all decent restaurants make available.

Or not.

But in any case, it is at least as good a comparison as people going to the toilet in public. Have you objected to that silly comparison too, or only to the one that tries to justify your abnormally sexualized view of babies?

Lol, not a single poster here has sexualised babies bar replies like yours, that point it out incorrectly as a reason against, even though no one ever put that forward in the first place.
It must suit to put it like that to make it a horrifying argument, even though that's not the argument at all.

Anyway, yet again - I don't have any issues with breastfeeding. All I've done it point out that one group of people are demanding that it's their right to do whatever they want wherever they want, no matter what (for example refusing to use specific areas put their to cater for them and this exact need), and this has to be the case and what anyone else thinks or anyone elses viewpoint is be damned.
Sure they couldn't be bothered 'gather their stuff' as you put it. Everyone else is "a gobsh*te" as another poster put it. Fine.

But only for their case. If it's a different scenario and other people wanting to do other things that they feel are fine, then the same group will hypocritically want their views on others catered for and others to work around it. ie: someone going topless without a baby.
That's all.

And presenting it as a life or death situation as you or whoever did is simply an out n out lie. Nothing more nothing less. It's not a life or death situation.

?Cee?view · 16-12-2014 05:13PM

nm wrote: »

Lol, not a single poster here has sexualised babies bar replies like yours, that point it out incorrectly as a reason against, even though no one ever put that forward in the first place.
It must suit to put it like that to make it a horrifying argument, even though that's not the argument at all.

Anyway, yet again - I don't have any issues with breastfeeding. All I've done it point out that one group of people are demanding that it's their right to do whatever they want wherever they want, no matter what (for example refusing to use specific areas put their to cater for them and this exact need), and this has to be the case and what anyone else thinks or anyone elses viewpoint is be damned.

But only for their case. If it's a different scenario and other people wanting to do other things that they feel are fine, then the same group will hypocritically want their views on others catered for and others to work around it. ie: someone going topless without a baby.
That's all.

And presenting it as a life or death situation as you or whoever did is simply an out n out lie. Nothing more nothing less. It's not a life or death situation.

Have you any idea how ridiculous the points you're making appear? You're right; it's not life or death, but it's certainly a public health issue.

The WHO is pretty much unequivocal in its efforts to promote breastfeeding. It's medically proven to have many benefits. It needs to be normalised as it is in most normal countries with less hang ups and higher rates of breastfeeding; not pushed into a separate room.

How does a separate room work anyway? Can the mother take her lunch in there, the other children with her, the man or men she is having lunch with?

And if you feel it's mothers pushing their point of view, look at it this way. It's also the child's right to be nurtured in the healthiest way possible.

nxbyveromdwjpg · 16-12-2014 05:21PM

?Cee?view wrote: »

You're right; it's not life or death

thanks

?Cee?view wrote: »

The WHO is pretty much unequivocal in its efforts to promote breastfeeding. It's medically proven to have many benefits.

No one is arguing this.

?Cee?view wrote: »

How does a separate room work anyway? Can the mother take her lunch in there, the other children with her, the man or men she is having lunch with?

I've no idea, up to her I guess.

?Cee?view wrote: »

And if you feel it's mothers pushing their point of view, look at it this way. It's also the child's right to be nurtured in the healthiest way possible.

No one is arguing the health benefits or a childs right to be breastfed.

CramCycle · 16-12-2014 05:21PM

It should also be pointed out that unlike bottle fed babies which settle into a much more regular pattern alot quicker, where you can actually plan feeding times to a large extent (although far from guaranteed as many parents will tell you). Breast fed babies, particularly in the first few months are "feed on demand". Many will feed every 20 minutes or so at certain times of the day. Not feeding a breast fed child won't kill it but if the "special room" or "wherever" that is deemed appropriate is not nearby it could be damaging to both the babies development and metabolism, particularly if such behaviour is repeated often.

Breastfeeding in Public places

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