Mens Rights Thread

KomradeBishop · 11-12-2014 12:53PM

RDM_83 again wrote: »

http://www.theguardian.com/law/2014/dec/10/father-woman-killed-herself-rape-claim-charge-astonished-cps

I'd be fairly cynical about public statements but in a case where she is clashing with police and its direct evidence that if isn't there would end her career I'd tend to believe it.

That one I'm a bit ambiguous/unsure about - the CCTV proves they were still close after the date she provided to the police, but I don't know if that proves a rape didn't happen; sometimes people stay in abusive relationships.

I can't find any information on her specific claims, to be able to make a better judgement; prosecuting may have been the right call, may not have.

Pawwed Rig · 11-12-2014 01:27PM

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Isn't that FGM? I'm at work so I'd prefer not to search the web for it.

Well FGM is circumcision by another name. I would argue that removal of the foreskin is male genital mutilation.

There are different levels of female circumcision that range from procedures that will not affect the life of the girl too much to horrific mutilations. All of which are disgusting and FGM

ancapailldorcha · 11-12-2014 02:06PM

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Well FGM is circumcision by another name. I would argue that removal of the foreskin is male genital mutilation.

There are different levels of female circumcision that range from procedures that will not affect the life of the girl too much to horrific mutilations. All of which are disgusting and FGM

Details aside, I think we can at least agree that the response is heartening.

jackofalltrades · 11-12-2014 02:54PM

KomradeBishop wrote: »

That one I'm a bit ambiguous/unsure about - the CCTV proves they were still close after the date she provided to the police, but I don't know if that proves a rape didn't happen; sometimes people stay in abusive relationships.

It wasn't just CCTV footage though.
According to the chief crown prosecutor CCTV footage and text messages directly contradicted the account Ms de Freitas gave to the police.

She went on to say “It was on this basis that we concluded that there was a realistic prospect of proving that the rape allegation made by Ms de Freitas was false...".

It doesn't have to be proven that a rape didn't happen. It has proved that it did.
And in this case it seems like the victims account of what happened contained a lot of lies.

KomradeBishop · 11-12-2014 04:23PM

jackofalltrades wrote: »

It wasn't just CCTV footage though.
According to the chief crown prosecutor CCTV footage and text messages directly contradicted the account Ms de Freitas gave to the police.

She went on to say “It was on this basis that we concluded that there was a realistic prospect of proving that the rape allegation made by Ms de Freitas was false...".

It doesn't have to be proven that a rape didn't happen. It has proved that it did.
And in this case it seems like the victims account of what happened contained a lot of lies.

Unless the details were public, so I know what was said and how it was a lie, I'm reluctant to jump to conclusions. It does have to be proven that a rape didn't happen: This is a case about false accusation of rape, not about rape, so it doesn't need to prove rape.

jackofalltrades · 11-12-2014 05:12PM

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Unless the details were public, so I know what was said and how it was a lie, I'm reluctant to jump to conclusions. It does have to be proven that a rape didn't happen: This is a case about false accusation of rape, not about rape, so it doesn't need to prove rape.

It would be my non-legal opinion that technically speaking they don't.
She was being charged with "perverting the course of justice".
That's all they need to prove.
Which in this case I would presume would be that she fabricated evidence.

iptba · 12-12-2014 05:36AM

I don't recall seeing this mentioned here:

White Ribbon Day overestimates reported rapes eight-fold
Campaign withdraws claim 3,500 rapes recorded last year; CSO figure was 451
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/white-ribbon-day-overestimates-reported-rapes-eight-fold-1.2014659

py2006 · 12-12-2014 11:46AM

iptba wrote: »

I don't recall seeing this mentioned here:

Apparently that figure includes male victims too.

iptba · 13-12-2014 06:01PM

Possibly of interest to some men/fathers:

Family law courts ‘too secretive’ says Minister for Justice

Frances Fitzgerald seeks balance between privacy of families and accountability

Minister for Justice Frances Fitzgerald who wants to see : “maximum public information out there about what happens in family courts”. Photograph: Cyril Byrne/Irish Times

Sat, Dec 13, 2014, 07:08

First published:Fri, Dec 12, 2014, 18:25

Minister for Justice Frances Fitzgerald has said family law courts have been “far too secretive” and there needs to be a new balance between privacy of individual families and accountability in the courts process.

Speaking in Dublin where she announced the selection of a site at Hammond Lane for a new family law courts building, Ms Fitzgerald said she wanted to see the “maximum public information out there about what happens in family courts”.

continues at:
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/family-law-courts-too-secretive-says-minister-for-justice-1.2036070?utm_source=morning-digest&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=digests

iptba · 14-12-2014 02:12AM

I thought it would be useful to have a thread specifically on fathers' rights.

These issues sometimes come up in other threads but having a specific thread for them may allow a more in-depth discussion of issues and perhaps attract people who might not be following other specific threads (esp. long-lasting ones).

iptba · 14-12-2014 02:12AM

One issue that some fathers unfortunately have to deal with is when their ex-partners make it difficult for them to maintain a relationship with their child (or children).

The following article discusses this issue and suggests how it can be punished:

(Dec 9)
"Why deliberately alienating a father from his child is domestic abuse"
http://www.inside-man.co.uk/2014/12/09/why-deliberately-alienating-father-from-child-is-domestic-abuse/

I'm not really convinced myself it is best seen as domestic abuse if the couple are not together but do think proactive steps can be necessary in some situations.

Here's an alternative approach from Australia

Mother Loses Custody After Preventing Father From Seeing Child

Published: December 1st, 2014

[..]

Changing the child’s primary carer from the mother to the father was the only way the girl could have a meaningful relationship with both parents, Judge Evelyn Bender decided.

Continues at:

http://www.familylawexpress.com.au/family-law-news/familylawcourts/precedent/mother-loses-custody-after-preventing-judge-takes-girl-away-from-selfish-mum-and-gives-her-to-dad-in-custody-battle/2688/

iptba · 14-12-2014 04:20AM

(December 12 article)

UK government creates new fund for male rape victims
http://toysoldier.wordpress.com/2014/12/12/uk-government-creates-new-fund-for-male-rape-victims/

iptba · 14-12-2014 07:41AM

(December 9 article)

The rape culture that everyone ignores

While many are eager to put a spotlight on the problem of campus rape, fewer are concerned about a prison system that all but encourages sexual assaults
http://theweek.com/article/index/273258/the-rape-culture-that-everyone-ignores

I get the impression this is more of a problem in US prisons than here.

iptba · 14-12-2014 08:41AM

(UK article)

10 Reasons why men still feel pressure to be the main breadwinner

December 6, 2014 By Inside MAN

Men are three times more likely to feel pressured to be the main breadwinner in their relationship, according to the first national audit of masculinity published by the male suicide prevention charity CALM last month.

So why do men feel pressure to be the main breadwinner? Here we explore 10 possible reasons and we’d like to hear your theories in the comments section below.

continues at: http://www.inside-man.co.uk/2014/12/06/10-reasons-why-men-still-feel-pressure-to-be-the-main-breadwinner/

jackofalltrades · 14-12-2014 04:44PM

iptba wrote:

Family law courts ‘too secretive’ says Minister for Justice

Frances Fitzgerald seeks balance between privacy of families and accountability

Minister for Justice Frances Fitzgerald who wants to see : “maximum public information out there about what happens in family courts”. Photograph: Cyril Byrne/Irish Times

Sat, Dec 13, 2014, 07:08

First published:Fri, Dec 12, 2014, 18:25

Minister for Justice Frances Fitzgerald has said family law courts have been “far too secretive” and there needs to be a new balance between privacy of individual families and accountability in the courts process.

Speaking in Dublin where she announced the selection of a site at Hammond Lane for a new family law courts building, Ms Fitzgerald said she wanted to see the “maximum public information out there about what happens in family courts”.

continues at:
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/irela...mpaign=digests

Good to hear and I hope real change is brought in.
It can only be a good thing to publicly show some of the archaic attitudes that judges display towards fathers and lay litigants.

Henry9 · 14-12-2014 10:06PM

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

They can also be prosecuted for slander and defamation of character.

Incidentally, in the de Freitas case this is exactly what happened.
He pursued a civil case against the woman, and there was enough evidence that the CPS took the case on.

The DPP has since decided there was enough evidence to prosecute.

Of course that hasn't stopped the Guradian claiming for the last 2 weeks that the case shouldn't have been pursued.

And in the most predictable column of the year, a female feminist academic from the US claims that prosecuting someone for false rape claims is a 'violation of their human rights'.

iptba · 14-12-2014 11:11PM

(UK article)

Men are nine times more likely to die homeless

Men are nine times more likely to die homeless according to a report by the University of Sheffield by the charity Crisis.

According to the report’s author, in the records of deaths in England between 2001-2009, 1,731 were identified as having been homeless people and 90% of these were male.

On average, four men die homeless every week in England compared with 2 women every month.
http://www.inside-man.co.uk/2014/12/12/men-are-nine-times-more-likely-to-die-homeless/

[..]

The authors of the report speculated that that one of the reasons more men die homeless is that they are less likely to be given help and support.

They said: “It may be that local authorities are more likely to rehouse single women than men as they may be seen to be at greater risk sleeping on the streets”.

I remember being irritated when in school that we did fundraising for Sr. Stanislaus Kennedy who at that time was focused on helping homeless women:

Sr. Stan Kennedy founded Focus Point (as it then was) in 1985 in response to the needs of homeless women.
http://www.focusireland.ie/files/introduction%20-%20senator%20aideen%20hayden.pdf

ancapailldorcha · 15-12-2014 10:34AM

This might be the best place for this:

The novelist Doris Lessing yesterday claimed that men were the new silent victims in the sex war, "continually demeaned and insulted" by women without a whimper of protest.
Lessing, who became a feminist icon with the books The Grass is Singing and The Golden Notebook, said a "lazy and insidious" culture had taken hold within feminism that revelled in flailing men.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/aug/14/edinburghfestival2001.edinburghbookfestival2001

marienbad · 15-12-2014 10:59AM

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

This might be the best place for this:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/aug/14/edinburghfestival2001.edinburghbookfestival2001

Yesterday ? She died in 2013 !

ancapailldorcha · 15-12-2014 11:01AM

Oops, saw it on Facebook. Didn't even occur to me that it might be so old.

marienbad · 15-12-2014 11:05AM

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Oops, saw it on Facebook. Didn't even occur to me that it might be so old.

Possibly still true today though .

donfers · 15-12-2014 03:20PM

marienbad wrote: »

Possibly still true today though .

Indeed particularly these lines:

"It is time we began to ask who are these women who continually rubbish men. The most stupid, ill-educated and nasty woman can rubbish the nicest, kindest and most intelligent man and no one protests.
"Men seem to be so cowed that they can't fight back, and it is time they did."

We see evidence of this kind of stuff all the time in the so-called liberal media, hence why forums like this are so important as the men's voice is seldom heard in the gender war debate

marienbad · 15-12-2014 04:01PM

donfers wrote: »

Indeed particularly these lines:

"It is time we began to ask who are these women who continually rubbish men. The most stupid, ill-educated and nasty woman can rubbish the nicest, kindest and most intelligent man and no one protests.
"Men seem to be so cowed that they can't fight back, and it is time they did."

We see evidence of this kind of stuff all the time in the so-called liberal media, hence why forums like this are so important as the men's voice is seldom heard in the gender war debate

There is no such thing as 'the liberal media' , just media reflecting society of the time . I don't know why people raise this canard.

Lemming · 15-12-2014 04:06PM

marienbad wrote: »

There is no such thing as 'the liberal media' , just media reflecting society of the time . I don't know why people raise this canard.

The same reason the popular canard "patriarchy" keeps getting trotted out. It's a fashionable sound-bite that sounds like it carries gravitas when it's nothing but a vapid empty buzzword with about as much meaning as the lyrics from any One Direction song.

ancapailldorcha · 15-12-2014 04:09PM

Lemming wrote: »

The same reason the popular canard "patriarchy" keeps getting trotted out. It's a fashionable sound-bite that sounds like it carries gravitas when it's nothing but a vapid empty buzzword with about as much meaning as the lyrics from any One Direction song.

Boys clubs have a habit of excluding most boys but that hardly ever gets mentioned.

Lemming · 15-12-2014 04:10PM

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Boys clubs have a habit of excluding most boys but that hardly ever gets mentioned.

I'm curious. Any clubs in particular? And on what grounds?

Unless you are referring to 'old boys' clubs which are a euphemism and exclusionary by design.

ancapailldorcha · 15-12-2014 04:11PM

Lemming wrote: »

I'm curious. Any clubs in particular? And on what grounds?

Unless you are referring to 'old boys' clubs which are a euphemism and exclusionary by design.

My mistake. I was referring to the likes of Eton and Oxbridge over here. Elite chaps only.

Lemming · 15-12-2014 04:49PM

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

My mistake. I was referring to the likes of Eton and Oxbridge over here. Elite chaps only.

Eton and Oxbridge are not 'boys clubs' though; they're public schools. Different beast altogether and very much built around notions of class hierarchy & economic privelege.

TBH, I struggle to think of a single activity that is 'boys only' these days (or even when I was growing up for that matter); the scouts (CBSI; now merged with SAI to be SI) were always mixed-sex as far back as I can rememember being in them although there was no deal made of being boys or girls. Martial arts? mixed. Cycling? mixed. Swimming clubs, tennis clubs, tabletennis, etc. mixed. The only difference being GAA activities.

Whilst most of the above sports would be gender-segregated at competition level, when it came to training it was very much mixed unless doing something that was very specific, e.g. training for an upcoming competition where you might need like-for-like opponents.

ancapailldorcha · 15-12-2014 05:08PM

Lemming wrote: »

Eton and Oxbridge are not 'boys clubs' though; they're public schools. Different beast altogether and very much built around notions of class hierarchy & economic privelege.

Eton is a private school for the elite. Uncapped fees mean that Oxbridge can charge what they please thus excluding all but the wealthiest applicants generally speaking. The term "boys club" refers to the network that wealthy young men build attending these places. David Cameron is a prime example.

Piliger · 15-12-2014 07:45PM

Lemming wrote: »

The same reason the popular canard "patriarchy" keeps getting trotted out. It's a fashionable sound-bite that sounds like it carries gravitas when it's nothing but a vapid empty buzzword with about as much meaning as the lyrics from any One Direction song.

Beautifully put.

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