Commonage Shareholders.

What people are missing is you must work within the possible, not call for the impossible.

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Commonages are and always have been minefields. Back through the years you have had some shareholders bully or intimidate other shareholders. As well when it was decides to destock no account was taken of shares so lads that had over stocked were rewarded by ending up with higher stocking rights and higher payments.

Even presently the government attitude was again not to manage the issue. However now with the new SFP structure commonage HA are worth money. By 2019 any of those that declare it previously even if not farming are looking at a minimum payment of over 150/HA including greening along with at least 5K GLAS if they have enough area and maybe another 2K on top. It is quite possible that it may be worth more if the area limit put in place by the Dept is disallowed by the department. A 20HA share could be worth in excess of 10K after DA is added in.

If area limit is disallowed then by the EU commonage could be worth in excess of 600/HA. The stakes have risen all around. Even for those that did not farm it previously some must be looking beyond 2019 and considering activating share they did not utilise previously as a Scottish type derogation could again have impilications for them.

On one hand you you have those that actively farmed these previously, however some intimidated previous share holders as well as destocking making it unviable for some previous shareholders. You then had the senario that SFP is not a production subsidity as some think rather an income support and is not linked to production. However those with shares feell these have a real value now.

Is it any different that those that collect SFP on owned land and are not farming same

If I remember correctly the Irish Govt. at the time had something like 5-7 years to figure out a solution the overgrazing/destocking issue. They sat upon their hands like they so often do and the EU made threats, to which the Irish response was the blanket 30% destocking. You're correct, those who had more, ended up with more, regardless of their actual share which was patently unfair as it was not a voluntary situation agreed to by shareholders.

I've often said I won't see €150 h/a and I still believe that to be the case. Eamon O'Cuiv asked a parliamentary question last week I believe it was, asking the Minister for detailed information regarding the assertion by some that up to 40% of commonages may not meet GAEC upon inspection. Now, the Minister didn't answer the question and O'Cuiv said Friday he's going through Dail procedures because as a TD he's entitled to an answer.

So what? The so what is, if a farmer makes an application, and that application is found to contain 20% ineligible land, that equals 100% penalty across SFP & DAS at least, if not all other payments also. Now when that situation is taken in conjunction with no definition of GAEC, no environmental training for inspectors who will be inspecting gaEc and a binding and enforced situation of abandonment by the Dept both removing numbers of grazing stock, beneficial grazing stock at beneficial times, and the aforementioned situation regarding numbers to shares...........

I'd say there's less dangerous minefields between North and South Korea.

GLAS, we know the issues there, GLAS+ currently is only open to commonage farmers with rare breeds and who have been members of that rare breed society for the PREVIOUS two years. With that there is also the upcoming review of CAP and DAS.

As for commonage being worth up to €600h/a, with the treatment to date of commonage farmers by some in the Irish Department for Agriculture, do you really see that happening? Remember the Commission can only do so much, and can question the member states plans and intentions, but there is a limit to what the Commission can implement within that member state, with the relevent Minister having the final say on most. And lets face it, Minister Coveney is no friend of low income or commonage farmers.

The CAP is not all about food, suits some to say it but it's not. People will roar, bellow, and rail against that statement but it contains Environmental and Rural Development aspects as well as others I am probably unaware of. Some of the questions from the Commission to the Govt. have indicated that, particularly in relation to Harvest 2020. As for production linked grants, against WTO rules, so beyond even the Commission. The one ewe to one and a half hectares min stocking rate on marginal land (which suited a lot inc me) is now defunct. The beef Genomics may also be in question I'm not sure on that.

Yes, lads topping good land and claiming subs entered my mind last night. Under the proposed idea what's to stop land being redistributed in Meath, Carlow, Wexford etc?

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Con the EU has more control over how pillar 2 funds are distributed that over piller 1(SFP). Over the years they have always stood against area limits on fund distribution. In Reps 3 this was over come by a token psyment on extra HA's. I think that the dept may find it harder to get GLAS past in present form that you think.

Previously no farmers were agitating over the issue's and West of Ireland farmers had no voice until Marian Harkin. However Marian along with Ming are advacoting on the issue and as well West of Ireland farmers are hightling it by protests. Battles like this are longterm much may not be won this time(although I think there will be more movement that some think I may be wrong) however this will continue into the 2020 review and more drastc changes could be seen there.

On SFP payment by 2019 the minimum payment has to be 66% of national average with greening this should exceed 150 I think the national average is 280 something. That would indicate a payment in or around 175 euro. However the reall battle will be over pillar 2 funding. If commages, Hen Harrier and SAC's have to be paid flat rate it is unlikly to remain at 330HA. However more funding may have to be redirected towards that area. This will make GLAS meaningless for farmers on better land like myself. However that may not be a disadvantage as it may free up land for rental. One door closes and another opens.

The haven't had much success over the years though, REPS and AEOS all have h/a ceilings, and the proposed but questioned ceiling in GLAS. I wouldn't like to over emphasise the control the EU has, as it's been made clear that the winning of the battle is here at home. From my own POV I'd much prefer if it was in Brussels. GLAS will have to be rewritten, I'd agree with that. How drastically, or what fine print traps will be in that will be another days work.

Marian Harkin certainly has proven her weight in gold to farmers, initially bringing out farmers two years ago to Brussels and then facilitating the meetings by invitation of the Commission this turn. She has already earned the vote I gave her many times over. Ming and Matt Carthy have also been very solid in their support, and I am thankful to them also. As well as a number of national and local politicians.

It is of course a long term battle, this isn't the start here, there had been a lot of work done previously to this for an Aran/Connemara life project, as well as other projects. However Connemara was dropped and it went ahead as an Aran Life project alone. It's interesting to hear the next round of CAP, never mind the review, is already being talked of.

The proposed rate of SFP by 2019 is I believe €103 per h/a which with Greening brings it up to €149 which is 60% of the National Average of SFP which is €260 ish I think.

" all entitlements must be valued at 60% of the national average entitlement value by 2019"

SAC's and other designations at the moment are not compensated for, IMO. At a meeting in Clifden at their inception, farmers were told they were to be worth twice what a Goya painting was. Art must be gone to hell altogether

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

But what is impossible about it? I realise that it wouldn't happen in a million years

I think you answered your own question there.