Would you snitch on a dole cheat?

swht · 18-11-2014 10:57PM

true-or-false wrote: »

Surely that's what casual is for?

Not related to the above, but rather in reference to how some people here are interchangeably using "an hour now and then" and "a few days work a week". Personally I think there's a big difference between taking pay for a few hours babysitting or gardening compared to a few days work a week. If you're getting a day a week, you can sign on to casual jobseekers, there's no excuse not to. There are plenty of people who get a few days fishing, labouring, freelance writing/designing a week, and make a good few bob off it, but consider it "just an hour here and there, not enough to tell DSP about".

What about the person who works 12 hours spread over 5 days (person whose hours have been reduced), can't sign on part time and not enough hours for FIS. They would be mad to turn down odd jobs cash in hand to supplement it.

mfceiling · 18-11-2014 10:58PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Of course they are not the same but they are both a crime, i'm just wondering where your morals lie and what do you consider a crime worthy of reporting?

Where do your morals lie timberrrrrr? Would you report a car whose tax was a month out of date? If you saw a car go through a red light would you report that? If you bought a bar of chocolate and realised that they charged you 10 cents too little, are you back in to the shop to report that? If you thought a car in the local car park had a bald tyre, would you report that?

Beaner1 · 18-11-2014 11:04PM

Putin wrote: »

You're paying more taxes because of the big boys and their white collar crime. They ran banks into the ground and we are paying for it. So Irish though, lets all go after the bottom feeders and leave the big sharks alone.

It's a lot worse than that.

In 2013 we took in 37.8 billiion in taxes (1). That's our real spending money. We spent 20.3 billion on social welfare in 2013 (2). Yes that is 54% out of all of our taxes is spent on social welfare.

Whinge all you like and banks and bondholders this is the sickening reality for the irish tax payer.

Sources.
1 http://www.finance.gov.ie/sites/default/files/Appendix%20I%20-%20End-December%202013%20Tax%20Receipts_0.pdf
2 http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/welfare-spending-on-children-falls-1.1861060

Electric Sheep · 18-11-2014 11:04PM

mfceiling wrote: »

Where do your morals lie timberrrrrr? Would you report a car whose tax was a month out of date? If you saw a car go through a red light would you report that? If you bought a bar of chocolate and realised that they charged you 10 cents too little, are you back in to the shop to report that? If you thought a car in the local car park had a bald tyre, would you report that?

I'm surprised to see that on this list of what you obviously consider innocuous offences, you include running a red light. Endangering the safety of others is not innocuous to me.

foggy_lad · 18-11-2014 11:10PM

I have done it before more than once and would do it again!

mfceiling · 18-11-2014 11:10PM

Electric Sheep wrote: »

I'm surprised to see that on this list of what you obviously consider innocuous offences, you include running a red light. Endangering the safety of others is not innocuous to me.

I never claimed they were innocuous...I merely offered a few examples of wrong doings to see which he would report.

lukesmom · 18-11-2014 11:16PM

No I haven't and I wouldn't, however I know loads of people screwing the system. A few cases would actually shock you but im not a rat.

18-11-2014 11:19PM

AboutaWeekAgo wrote: »

Living the big life on 300 a week.

I get little more than that, and have to work my ass off for it, pay rent, transport, medical costs etc. Work takes up my whole Mon-Fri and seriously stresses me out most days. I don't mind seeing my tax coming out of my payslip when I think about all the good things it pays for, really, I don't. But when I think of...

- High public transport costs for a suffering service while others abuse/vandalise it or get it for free.
- Long waiting times to see overpriced doctors so I can get overpriced drugs while others get it for little to nothing.
- My taxes going into the public pot and coming out the other side to people doing a lot better than I.

,,, and how little I'm left with after all that and rent, I don't think I should be blamed if I'm at all concerned with whether or not the people benefiting from welfare are all entitled to it or not. Particularly because of the different jobs I've had, I've seen a lot of very dodgy stuff going on, and it's impossible not to notice. I've never reported anyone because I think it's impossible for me to know someone's entire situation, but if I did know for absolutely certain that someone was a dole cheat, I'd definitely report them. I've been through too much myself not to. It'd be akin to letting someone spit in your face and not standing up for yourself.

Roquentin · 18-11-2014 11:21PM

true-or-false wrote: »

I get little more than that, and have to work my ass off for it, pay rent, transport, medical costs etc. Work takes up my whole Mon-Fri and seriously stresses me out most days. I don't mind seeing my tax coming out of my payslip when I think about all the good things it pays for, really, I don't. But when I think of...

- High public transport costs for a suffering service while others abuse/vandalise it or get it for free.
- Long waiting times to see overpriced doctors so I can get overpriced drugs while others get it for little to nothing.
- My taxes going into the public pot and coming out the other side to people doing a lot better than I.

,,, and how little I'm left with after all that and rent, I don't think I should be blamed if I'm at all concerned with whether or not the people benefiting from welfare are all entitled to it or not. Particularly because of the different jobs I've had, I've seen a lot of very dodgy stuff going on, and it's impossible not to notice. I've never reported anyone because I think it's impossible for me to know someone's entire situation, but if I did know for absolutely certain that someone was a dole cheat, I'd definitely report them. I've been through too much myself not to. It'd be akin to letting someone spit in your face and not standing up for yourself.

not to mention prisoners watching sky sports when the ordinary person cant afford it

Roquentin · 18-11-2014 11:23PM

from what i can deduce we are nearing a tipping point with regards what the hard working people pay in taxes and what those on the dole gain.

there was a woman writing into the independent also recently who was disgusted and so on.

Means Of Escape · 19-11-2014 12:14AM

Putin wrote: »

You're paying more taxes because of the big boys and their white collar crime. They ran banks into the ground and we are paying for it. So Irish though, lets all go after the bottom feeders and leave the big sharks alone.

Expenditure on social welfare was astronomical way before the banking problem.

Too much given to those who WONT work

ScumLord · 19-11-2014 12:44AM

Beaner1 wrote: »

It's a lot worse than that.

In 2013 we took in 37.8 billiion in taxes (1). That's our real spending money. We spent 20.3 billion on social welfare in 2013 (2). Yes that is 54% out of all of our taxes is spent on social welfare.

But that's social welfare as a whole, we all use social welfare from time to time don't we? Anyone who's been to a hospital has been the benefactor of social welfare.

So it's a bit disingenuous to just plonk down this number of 54% and blame the few people that abuse the system when we've all been spending that money. What percentage of that 54% is actually milking the system?

costadeldole · 19-11-2014 03:12AM

Every month I sign on in my local dole office, I see a local painter and decorator do the same. His overalls are covered in paint as he queues to sign. Its blatant he is working and claiming, but do you think the dole officer passes any comment? Or reports him? She cares less than I do. I wouldn't report him even if they offered a reward. What thanks do you get? None. I suppose one can take the gratification of being a law abiding Irish citizen. Well good for you. Personally I feel apathetic, if one wants to do it; then that is their prerogative. Working people that pay taxes doing cash in hand jobs on the side are no different. A man will do what he has to, to make some extra money. We live in a capitalist country not a socialist one, so that is what you get.

Jen Pigs Fly · 19-11-2014 03:19AM

I think I'm too honest, never have the bottle to lie in that sort of situation, I'd be the sort of person to get caught out too easy!

Never been on the social before, currently in the process however and I've been completely honest with them on everything because there's no point in lieing as I'm entitled to it (full time employment for over 4 years and 7 Years employment in total) plus I'm hoping to get s job really soon!

Some people are great at lieing, I'm way too honest and would prob give the game away before I even sat down!

Staying to the thread though, I personally wouldn't tell of anyone who were screwing the system as it were, some people feel they're entitled to everything despite doing nothing and while I may begrudge them for getting a house and what not off the social it's not my place to cause trouble in case it would have a knock on affect on me.

DoYouEvenLift · 19-11-2014 03:44AM

Never know what someone else's circumstances are. If I had the impression they were actually struggling and it was a desperate attempt to get by for their kids then no, but if they were openly smug and boasting about it and flaunting it like that kunt who posted on FB about using welfare to get her kids a bouncy castle then maybe, if I felt bothered at the time.

braddun · 19-11-2014 04:53AM

is the pope a catholic

uck51js9zml2yt · 19-11-2014 05:51AM

lukesmom wrote: »

No I haven't and I wouldn't, however I know loads of people screwing the system. A few cases would actually shock you but im not a rat.

So it's ok to work and not have enough to pay the bills at the end of the month oor be on welfare and balance a few days work against loosing your money while others claim social welfare and work at the same time.

Son Of A Vidic · 19-11-2014 05:52AM

Means Of Escape wrote: »

Expenditure on social welfare was astronomical way before the banking problem.

Yet our taxes were much lower before said problem, sentenced a generation to bailing others out.

Timberrrrrrrr · 19-11-2014 07:55AM

GeorgeBailey wrote: »

Wait. What? Fonelovin'dude is a bugbear of benefit and insurance fraud?

As to the OP, no I wouldn't report a dole snitch. Fraud is hard work and they deserve the money they get.

So is robbing a post office, burglary, rape. Maybe people should look the other way for those crimes too?

efb · 19-11-2014 08:07AM

Beaner1 wrote: »

It's a lot worse than that.

In 2013 we took in 37.8 billiion in taxes (1). That's our real spending money. We spent 20.3 billion on social welfare in 2013 (2). Yes that is 54% out of all of our taxes is spent on social welfare.

Whinge all you like and banks and bondholders this is the sickening reality for the irish tax payer.

Sources.
1 http://www.finance.gov.ie/sites/default/files/Appendix%20I%20-%20End-December%202013%20Tax%20Receipts_0.pdf
2 http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/welfare-spending-on-children-falls-1.1861060

Again the vast majority of that covers pensions and Children's Allowance

Means Of Escape · 19-11-2014 08:32AM

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Yet our taxes were much lower before said problem, sentenced a generation to bailing others out.

You were still paying up the wazoo for everything then too in fact probably doubly so.
The generous Christmas bonus was paid by?

MRnotlob606 · 19-11-2014 08:35AM

No I wouldn't do that. It's not up to me to correct the wrong of somebody else.

Beaner1 · 19-11-2014 08:36AM

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

No I wouldn't do that. It's not up to me to correct the wrong of somebody else.

It actually is your responsibility to report a crime.

Tordelback · 19-11-2014 08:44AM

costadeldole wrote: »

Every month I sign on in my local dole office, I see a local painter and decorator do the same. His overalls are covered in paint as he queues to sign.

There are any number of legitimate ways to be working and signing on at the same time.

fred funk }{ · 19-11-2014 09:01AM

Nearly every cent of money made on the black market is spent locally in shops, cafés, petrol stations etc. All who employ local people. I can't remember the exact figures but a hell of a lot of the money made on the black market goes directly back to the state via VAT and other taxes.

Our economy does well ftom that money.

Timberrrrrrrr · 19-11-2014 09:02AM

mfceiling wrote: »

Where do your morals lie timberrrrrr? Would you report a car whose tax was a month out of date?

Probably not but then i don't actively check car tax discs to see if they are in date so the chances of me knowing a cars tax was out of date would be minimal.

If you saw a car go through a red light would you report that?

Would have no problem reporting dangerous driving and i have done twice before.

If you bought a bar of chocolate and realised that they charged you 10 cents too little, are you back in to the shop to report that?

I wouldn't "report" it but i would certainly go back in and explain to the person they had given me too much change and give it back, Wouldn't you?

If you thought a car in the local car park had a bald tyre, would you report that?

Again this would be like the tax thing where i wouldn't be checking peoples tyres as i am not qualified to decide if a tyre is below the safety threshold.

Timberrrrrrrr · 19-11-2014 09:05AM

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Nearly every cent of money made on the black market is spent locally in shops, cafés, petrol stations etc. All who employ local people. I can't remember the exact figures but a hell of a lot of the money made on the black market goes directly back to the state via VAT and other taxes.

Our economy does well ftom that money.

So let me get this straight

It's ok to commit fraud by selling things on the black market because the money made is then spent in the local economy generating taxes? Are you telling me that Mary down the road who pays €6 for a packet of smokes on Moore street would suddenly stop smoking if she had to pay the full price?

wexandproud · 19-11-2014 09:23AM

ireland.man wrote: »

Whatever the benefits to the exchequer, it's usually spiteful, passive aggressive personalities who make quiet phonecalls to report on their neighbours and friends.

When I picture someone reporting a dole cheat I don't imagine a person contemplating the ethical and practical ramifications of this action and whether the benefits to the government and indirectly all workers justifies it. Instead I picture a jealous, nosy, unpleasant person looking to find enjoyment from another person's troubles.

i think you should draw a different picture for yourself of what a person who reports someone is..I am in no way a nosey , or jealous person and I love seeing people do well. I run my own small business and the amount dole fraud is widespread. on numerous occasions I have been looking for people for a few days or maby weeks at a time, the first two things you would be asked is it cash in hand and do I have to sign off. on one occasion we were paying all the usual taxes for a guy who was working 3 days a week and he was supposed to sign of those days ,he got some shock when social welfare caught up with him.. and according to him we were the guilty ones
the guy who works to get beer money,, I would be the first to report , a guy who has fallen on tough times and is trying to pay bills and feed a family I MIGHT have some sympathy for.. business's in this country who are trying to do things right are being undercut all the time by the black economy.

before someone comes on here and complains about all the money self employed people make, let them come up with a business plan and borrow a load of money, then go out and try comply with all the employment and tax regulations. when they have done this for a few years then come back here and and let us know about the black economy.From what I can see its the 'entitlement crowd' who are mostly at it , oh I'm entitled to a holiday oh I'm entitled to get full at the weekends.. no your fcuking not, not if its paid for through fraud

jebus i fell better now

AudreyHepburn · 19-11-2014 10:15AM

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

No I wouldn't do that. It's not up to me to correct the wrong of somebody else.

Would you stand silent and watch if some-one was being robbed in the street in front of you? Would you not at least call the Gardai if not try yourself to help?

Social Welfare fraud is robbery too, the only difference being you can't always see it first hand and no-one gets physically hurt.

magicmushroom · 19-11-2014 10:17AM

Absolutely.
I work full time, work Saturdays when they're available to make ends meet and I still struggle each month.

Why the F should I NOT report someone who is claiming unemployment but still working? Why should they be better off than me for doing an awful lot less?

Why should the tax I pay supplement these people?

I wouldn't hesitate.

I actually did report someone once for living with a girl, she was claiming single mothers benefit and he thought it was hilarious they were getting this 'free money' (he worked full time with a generous bonus and overtime).
I'm not sure if anything ever came of it though.

ETA - If the family in question were really struggling, ie couldn't feed the kids, were going to lose the house, gas had been cut off and the house was freezing - something like this - I would turn a blind eye. I guess it all depends on the individual and their personal circumstances.

Would you snitch on a dole cheat?

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