Hard left

BoJack Horseman · 18-11-2014 10:45AM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Yeah, that's a Bill O'Reilly line if I ever I heard one.

Did you hear the interview?

I think its linked in the thread.

When someone calls for all businesses to be seized by the state & run by worker soviet councils...... Well, my label seems more than a little apt.

adocholiday · 18-11-2014 10:51AM

adocholiday wrote: »

Anyone who thinks FF or FG are right wing is deluded. It's a terrible pity we don't have a right wing party in Ireland. Badly needed counter point

I should have expanded on my point about a right wing party. To sum up my views:

- Increased taxes across the board, but raise the entry level for the second tier.
- Reduce social welfare spending: Introduce means testing for various benefits, tiered payments based on age and length of time on the dole, remove rent allowance for those in the cities, get rid of free travel pass except for disabled people, revamp medical card scheme.
- Reduce public sector pay bill: Revamp the administration heavy services. The HSE has 7 tiers of management for example. Compulsory redundancies for excess staff/staff not fit for purpose. Increase the front line staff as a result. Remove the PS pensions, they can go private like everyone else. Increase efficiencies (leave, flexi-time etc). To do this...
- Reign in the unions. Too much power and influence. Massive obstacle but could be done by a brave government.
- Strict lending criteria for mortgages and fix the rental system in Ireland (long term tenancies, proper building control, family oriented apartments like other european countries).
- Immigration control should be extended. While I have absolutely no problem with people coming to Ireland to better themselves and contribute to the economy, we have ended up with a lot of burden on our social welfare system and the issue of 'welfare tourism'.
- Justice system revamp. Too many repeat offenders being let off with lenient/soft sentences, judges have to be brought back to this planet.

Just some of my opinions that kind of sum up my political views. There isn't a single party or group in Ireland with similar policies except for the Reform Alliance (Lucinda Creighton's group) who I am vehemently opposed to because they are 'socially conservative' i.e. pro-life/religious where I believe in complete and utter separation of religion and state.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 18-11-2014 11:00AM

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Did you hear the interview?

I think its linked in the thread.

When someone calls for all businesses to be seized by the state & run by worker soviet councils...... Well, my label seems more than a little apt.

No, not living in Ireland (I meant the first line with the Bill O'Rilly comment).

I'd agree with you based on what you're written above - but this takes me back to my original comment: do we really want an extremist government of any sort?

endacl · 18-11-2014 12:15PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

but this takes me back to my original comment: do we really want an extremist government of any sort?

Yes. An extremely competent, ethical, decisive, and effective one.

That'd be a first.

MRnotlob606 · 18-11-2014 12:22PM

The far left would be fantastic. more years of recession.

Spudmonkey · 18-11-2014 12:37PM

coolemon wrote: »

Left organisations in Ireland from what I know:

Acronym - Full name - Politics - Organisational Structure - Affiliated Organisations

1. SP - Socialist party - Trotskyist/Marxist-Leninist - Democratic Centralism - Anti-Austerity Alliance

2. SWP - Socialist Workers Party - Trotskyist/Marxist-Leninist - Democratic Centralism - People Before Profit

3. WP - The Workers Party - Stalinist/Marxist Leninist - Democratic Centralism - OIRA (Official IRA)

4. IRSP - Irish Republican Socialist Party - Irish Republican/Marxist-Leninist - Democratic Centralism - INLA (Irish National Liberation Army)

5. Eirigi - Irish Republican Socialist - Organic Centralism

6. WSM - Workers Solidarity Movement - Anarcho-syndicalist/communist (favours working within existing unions and structures)

7. Organise! - Anarcho-syndicalist/communist [/B](favours working outside union structures)

8. RNU - Republican Network For Unity - Irish Republican Socialist - structure unknown - ONH (oglaigh na heireann)

9. 32CSM - 32 County Sovereignty Movement - Irish Republican Socialist - structure unknown - Real IRA

10. Spartacist League - Trotskyist/Marxist Leninist - Democratic Centralism

11. RSF - Republican Sinn Fein - Irish Republicanism/Eire Nua - structure unknown - Continuity IRA

12. CPI - Communist Party of Ireland - Stalinist/Marxist-Leninist - Democratic Centralism

13. ISN - Irish Socialist Network - Luxembourgist/Anti-Leninist - structure unknown

14. UL - United Left - Leftist/social democratic/ socialist mix - structure unknown, but mainly informal.

There are many more but they will be more issue based than having an all-encompassing political position.

People's front of Judea

endacl · 18-11-2014 12:40PM

Spudmonkey wrote: »

People's front of Judea

Splitters.

:mad:

mandrake04 · 18-11-2014 12:58PM

Dickie10 wrote: »

i was only throwing out my opinion in a hurry, not writing a novel! but u get the jist, i did say that good work ethic, and determination to succeed will be of huge benefit in london, usa, or australia, look at the strides the irish in america made in the 19th /early twentieth century.

Sean Quinn is a most admirable man, the employment he gave to the poor region of the north west was nothing short of a miracle and to do it all through pure hard work and good business acumen without any state help. id like to see some of these water meter protesters get themselves off the dole and do that, some chance.

+1

Don't apologise for posting your opinion.

My brother knows Quinn well and although I have only met him about 3 times the most recent last October I have always found him to be an excellent businessman and a gentleman. He has great support in his community because over the years he invested in those people, he made a few poor decisions but sure don't we all.

Dickie10 · 18-11-2014 01:16PM

here here, the man who didnt make a mistake made nothing, i believe he did make a mistake and then he, like anyone else moved to protect what he had, who wouldnt do such a thing? there is still a lot of support for sean. id love to see him back on his feet trding again. personnally i would like to see the reform alliance as a party, i think they would have as good if not more support than socalists party

wp_rathead · 18-11-2014 01:22PM

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Hmm...good spot; a lot of these smaller parties, do tend to associate with crackpots supporting anti-fluoridation and similar woo.

Yes i researched them during the European Elections- the individual in my constituency was also pro-life which was massive Con but not sure if that part of the parties maniesfesto tbh

wp_rathead · 18-11-2014 01:26PM

I do worry for the people who idolise people like Quinn- same people who would go to a Jordan Belford seminar..

KomradeBishop · 18-11-2014 01:33PM

mandrake04 wrote: »

+1

Don't apologise for posting your opinion.

My brother knows Quinn well and although I have only met him about 3 times the most recent last October I have always found him to be an excellent businessman and a gentleman. He has great support in his community because over the years he invested in those people, he made a few poor decisions but sure don't we all.

He was fined €200,000 for an illegal breach of regulations in 2010 (the firm itself was fined €3.25 million), and he bankrupted himself by effectively gambling on Anglo shares - he owed €2.8 billion to the same bank, and now he is happy to leave the rest of Ireland to pick up his tab - he has even obstructed court orders put out to seize his assets, which landed him in jail for 9 weeks.

All through this time, the Quinn's have acted to try and preserve their wealth - at the expense of the taxpayer, who are left to pick up the €2.8 billion tab - such as by transferring assets between by Quinn-controlled companies, to a company located in Cyprus, to obstruct seizure of assets; as well as utilizing these companies, to reward their family extensive salaries and other bonuses, for doing pretty much nothing (in one case, family members were given huge sums of money, for signing a contract they didn't even understand - in Russian - not even knowing if there was any actual work set out for them).

His family even has the gall to try and get the cumulative €2.34 billion loan from Anglo written-off, by claiming Quinn took out the loan, to illegally help prop-up Anglo's share price - an argument which implies he was (obviously) complicit.

There should be no place for that kind of ethically-corrupt, unlawful and fraudulent activity in Ireland (a statement backed by regulatory fines and his jail sentence plus added obstruction of asset seizures) - Quinn is the type of person, with no care for ethics or legality (among many others with such loose 'ethics'), who helped to partially destroy our economy.

The family and their activities absolutely reek of ethical corruption - who should be under much more extensive investigation for white-collar crime; that anyone would defend them is both short-sighted (of all the problems that helped bring our economy down) and usually self-interested ("they helped create a few jobs in my local area"), at the expense of the rest of the country (who are picking up the multi-billion tab the Quinn's left behind).

Personally, I view them as only a tiny bit higher in status, than drug-peddling criminals - the kind of activity they engaged in, can (on an economy-wide scale) do far more harm than any illegal drug trading.

suicide_circus · 18-11-2014 01:39PM

My partner is from the former soviet block. Her country is yet to recover decades after revolution. Don't get me wrong, our current model of a free market economy with welfare state leanings is riddled with problems but I'd rather not experience whatever socialist dystopia Paul Murphy TD has planned for us. Anyway I dont even know what he'd do if he got into actual power, probably shiit himself and run away. He's come a long way from the relatively affluent south dublin private secondary school he attended the year above me.

RobertKK · 18-11-2014 01:44PM

Ruth Coppinger likes her Dail salary.

On Newstalk she said a working person is a person who works for a living and earns under €100,000.
Though I think she protests for a living.

When asked if a person on €95,000 could be classed as working class, she said yes.

18-11-2014 01:58PM

I am only partly the wiser about what sort of society the far left want.

I would like issues like zero hours contract sorted out they should be banned, I believe in good conditions of employment, having a minimum wage and so on along with the system we have i.e a business model based on profit and that means that some will be earning 200k and some will be earning 20k I have no problem with that. I want good public services and a good welfare system.

endacl · 18-11-2014 02:11PM

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

There are loads..... Way more than on the far right.

Eirigi
The Communist Party
Fís Nua (kind of)
AAA/SP
PBP
Workers Party
Shinners (depending on populist mood at the given moment)
United Left

Surely most of those are 'hard of thinking' as opposed to 'hard left' though?

BoatMad · 18-11-2014 02:45PM

diomed wrote: »

Create jobs for everyone, with everyone paid about the same.

Eliminate profits, because they go to capitalists, by paying a decent wage.

Remove tax from the ordinary working man, and "tax the rich".

Tax the wealthy so they have nothing left to invest, and businesses close.

yes comrade stalin,

BoatMad · 18-11-2014 02:46PM

.... I want good public services and a good welfare system

Then you and everyone else is going to have to pay more tax. thats not popular at the moment

BoatMad · 18-11-2014 02:48PM

mandrake04 wrote: »

+1

Don't apologise for posting your opinion.

My brother knows Quinn well and although I have only met him about 3 times the most recent last October I have always found him to be an excellent businessman and a gentleman. He has great support in his community because over the years he invested in those people, he made a few poor decisions but sure don't we all.

He may be a grand fellow, but he took an extreme gamble and lost his shirt , end of story. I have no sympathy.

18-11-2014 02:49PM

BoatMad wrote: »

Then you and everyone else is going to have to pay more tax. thats not popular at the moment

I would not mind paying more taxes if for example in return we had an NHS style health services with free at point of accesses Doctors and Dentists.

BoatMad · 18-11-2014 02:53PM

mariaalice wrote: »

I would not mind paying more taxes if for example in return we had an NHS style health services with free at point of accesses Doctors and Dentists.

Indeed, of course everyone has there own ideas of what they want from their taxes, taken all together they actually don't add up.

I don't think theres any appetite for more taxes at the moment , do you think there is ?

18-11-2014 02:59PM

BoatMad wrote: »

Indeed, of course everyone has there own ideas of what they want from their taxes, taken all together they actually don't add up.

I don't think theres any appetite for more taxes at the moment , do you think there is ?

No of course not but the message is put across badly a lot of the time, it should be possible in some simple way for the government ( who ever they are ) to say the choice is 2% extra in PAYE taxs and for that we can provide free at point of accesses health care and subsidised child care its your ( the peoples choice )

Permabear · 18-11-2014 03:06PM

This post has been deleted.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 18-11-2014 03:14PM

mandrake04 wrote: »

+1

Don't apologise for posting your opinion.

My brother knows Quinn well and although I have only met him about 3 times the most recent last October I have always found him to be an excellent businessman and a gentleman. He has great support in his community because over the years he invested in those people, he made a few poor decisions but sure don't we all.

We don't all make bad decisions that effect millions of people, for an entire nation to mortgage their future and then run away and hide from them.

A good businessman wouldn't be in his situation. A gentleman would stand up, be honest and accept the consequences. If we expect the later from 6-year olds, I don;t shee why he shouldn't expect it of a grown adult.

BoatMad · 18-11-2014 03:15PM

mariaalice wrote: »

No of course not but the message is put across badly a lot of the time, it should be possible in some simple way for the government ( who ever they are ) to say the choice is 2% extra in PAYE taxs and for that we can provide free at point of accesses health care and subsidised child care its your ( the peoples choice )

I have yet to see an election poster that suggests raising taxes, even from our leftists friends.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 18-11-2014 03:26PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

That;s what I thought.

But in order to answer the OP's question - "what do the hard left want in Irish politics?" we really need some hard left political supporters in here. Saying that they want to destroy capitalism or have everyone on the same wage, tax the wealthy to the point at which business is forced to close, etc, etc, is merely commentary (with some inaaccuracies) unless backed up by a link, a manifesto or some sort of direct comment.

I'd like it answered too - don't get me wrong - but I want the question that was posed, answered by hard left supports making points. Not the question interpreted by an anti-left propogandist making assumptions.

Permabear · 18-11-2014 03:32PM

This post has been deleted.

brevity · 18-11-2014 03:37PM

redfacedbear wrote: »

In this interview with Sean Moncrieff the Socialist Party TD Ruth Coppinger outlines how she sees a socialist Ireland operating (about 8 minutes in).

It's proper old school Soviet stuff - workers committees running businesses, nationalisation of any industry of substance, taxing 'wealth' etc.

She does at least acknowledge that it would be impossible to implement in isolation but it is barmy all the same.

Holy hell, that's fairytale stuff! Russia in 1918 a beacon of light?!?

Was laughing at Moncrieff's interview technique though. It was like speaking with a toddler who has just drawn a strange picture.

neil_hosey · 18-11-2014 03:40PM

i never understood the "tax the rich, cas that makes it fair" argument..

The "rich" already pay a shed load of tax, and should be entitled to the same public services as everyone else, for the same price. Just because someone done well for themselves, doesnt mean we should penalize them. It a begrudgery thing, and its pretty narrowminded.. hence why I won't be voting sinn féin again, or any hard left whatevers ever.

We should be encouraging enterprise by trying to make a tax system fair, so the rich (ie people who have broke their bollox and/or lucked out) can create more jobs.

(im not rich btw..)

ThunbergsAreGo · 18-11-2014 03:47PM

neil_hosey wrote: »

i never understood the "tax the rich, cas that makes it fair" argument..

The "rich" already pay a shed load of tax, and should be entitled to the same public services as everyone else, for the same price. Just because someone done well for themselves, doesnt mean we should penalize them. It a begrudgery thing, and its pretty narrowminded.. hence why I won't be voting sinn féin again, or any hard left whatevers ever.

We should be encouraging enterprise by trying to make a tax system fair, so the rich (ie people who have broke their bollox and/or lucked out) can create more jobs.

(im not rich btw..)

That sums up pretty much how I feel about it as well.

It feels like if the left were in power i would have no need to push myself or better myself to progress in life and thus earn more to provide for my family.

"Tax the Rich" always strikes me as a ridiculously populist line which gets trotted out again and again

Hard left

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