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Strike On ! Proposed New Junior Cert **See Mod Warning Post #1**

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Comments

  • #32
    MrJones1973
    Closed Accounts Posts: 997 ✭✭✭MrJones1973


    So it looks like we will have at least 1 day of strike action before end of month. What Are feelings in staff rooms about strike? New JC?
    Personally, I think you allow 40% continuous assessment in the door then you can kiss the following goodbye
    1. Professional standards-results will be 'adjusted' either through direct teacher tampering or grind teachers/parents
    2. Having a life. There is hardly a department structure in place for subjects in secondary schools. There are no paid head of departments with authority. It will be chaos poured onto a creaking system.
    I have fought and lost many battles last few years. Please not tis one..


  • #33
    Boober Fraggle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 238 ✭✭Boober Fraggle


    I have no problem with 40% continuous assessment, I don't see it as the problem at all. External assessment would be necessary though. It's done in enough subjects as it is, and I'm sure subject teachers would be able to come up with a viable option for continuous assessment in their own subjects, that could be assessed externally, languages and practicals are easy to organise, surely projects (that aren't just done by the teacher) can be assessed along with the exam in July.

    I think we will be balloted again rather than a straight out strike action...


  • #34
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    I can't see us winning the PR battle on this. Funnily enough she has done exactly what I said they'd need to do to turn everyone against us. With 60% external assessment it looks like we're cribbing about extra work


  • #35
    gammy_knees
    Closed Accounts Posts: 97 ✭✭gammy_knees


    mirrorwall14 wrote: »
    I can't see us winning the PR battle on this. Funnily enough she has done exactly what I said they'd need to do to turn everyone against us. With 60% external assessment it looks like we're cribbing about extra work
    There's nothing wrong with cribbing about extra work unpaid. I'm already doing an extra 43 hrs S & S unpaid this year plus a lot of other bull.
    When did the profession become registered as a charity- I can't find the charity number!!


  • #36
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    Oh don't get me wrong, I completely agree!! All I'm saying is that when we were arguing that there should be a state set exam we had very clear goals that parents and even students would support. When it's 60% externally assessed its a tad tougher to win


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  • #37
    MrJones1973
    Closed Accounts Posts: 997 ✭✭✭MrJones1973


    The Education system is creaking. At best you will get a post or 2 per school. Do you really feel thats enough to do this? Continuous assessment is a bad idea-it does not matter how much or how little-a bad idea is a bad idea.

    As for PR-get real. The media hates us-always will. The Parents association is funded by the Department. The JMB ditto. Parents wont want schools closed but the vast majority of parents wont turn against us because of strike action. Once you strike-you lose some support but you win disputes by pissing off your opposition (the Department). Sure Pat kenny will wet his pants and the fee paying brigade will get angry but thats what you want. Because they will harass their TDs to sort this. Exactly what else can they do to us that has not been done already?
    If we keep rolling over-where does this end??
    Grow a pair people-Industrial disputes are messy but for a group of people who stand up to much thuggery every day-are you really that spineless to be afraid of bad PR?


  • #38
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    Mrwhite1970 wrote: »
    The Education system is creaking. At best you will get a post or 2 per school. Do you really feel thats enough to do this? Continuous assessment is a bad idea-it does not matter how much or how little-a bad idea is a bad idea.

    As for PR-get real. The media hates us-always will. The Parents association is funded by the Department. The JMB ditto. Parents wont want schools closed but the vast majority of parents wont turn against us because of strike action. Once you strike-you lose some support but you win disputes by pissing off your opposition (the Department). Sure Pat kenny will wet his pants and the fee paying brigade will get angry but thats what you want. Because they will harass their TDs to sort this. Exactly what else can they do to us that has not been done already?
    If we keep rolling over-where does this end??
    Grow a pair people-Industrial disputes are messy but for a group of people who stand up to much thuggery every day-are you really that spineless to be afraid of bad PR?


    And that's me out. I made what was a reasonable point about PR. I am not in favour of teacher corrected work or us doing extra work nor did I say so.


  • #39
    endakenny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 956 ✭✭✭endakenny


    Boober Fraggle wrote: »
    I think we will be balloted again rather than a straight out strike action...
    Why do you think that? The mandate for strikes is already there.


  • #40
    MrJones1973
    Closed Accounts Posts: 997 ✭✭✭MrJones1973


    Sorry Mirror wall-comments were not addressed at you personally but teachers in general. I meant no offence. The Point about PR needed to be refuted . But for that to happen it had to be mentioned.


  • #41
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    I'm one of the 'to hell with public perception' brigade lately. the last lunchtime protest was a real insult to teachers.

    The ONLY way anyone will take any notice and listen to the issues is to discommode the parents. Otherwise we just get the same old media jibes which last for about 5 minutes before the adds.... if parents have to think about education (rather than a babysitting service) maybe someone in the media will actually sit up and engage with the issue properly rather than the 'teachers creaming it post recession' line.

    When is this continuous assessment going to be done....? During school hours!!
    It's quite simple, we will be expected to do this at home between corrections and setting exams (and further study we undertake of our own volition)...

    Or maybe the alternative is quite simple.. do the work during June and the mid term breaks ! What about some schools where there is a noticable split between Junior Cert and Leaving Cert teachers. How is that equitable if half the school are in/at home correcting while the other are enjoying their holidays?

    Yet again the profession will be split.

    A few of us were discussing the work to rule/strikes of 2000, (I wasn;t in the profession myself at the time) their were some with a real bitter taste in their mouth towards the Union. It was all fine and dandy, but then the teaching had to resume and the teachers had to catch up on the work for the exams. The vile being sputed against teachers was pretty palpable at the time.
    Then again though... teachers got the pay rise because of the action!!! And at the end of the day students got through their exams as they always do.
    Of course it was done via paying for S&S... and look where that has got us now trying to untangle it.
    (We need to be very careful of how concessions are awarded, if we get a few concessions by way of linking it to x,y,z we could see ourselves trying to undo it down the road again.)

    And what concessions are there on the table for all this extra work BTW?

    Sure, I'll come in during the summer, but you gotta pay me for it! otherwise, why the hell am I voting for more work. Just because someone else thinks it's good for someone else's kids based on some 'research' done in a different country with different systems?


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  • #42
    MrJones1973
    Closed Accounts Posts: 997 ✭✭✭MrJones1973


    Armelodie wrote: »
    I heard that because Jan has a new offer on the table we should have to ballot for strike again ! Is that usually the procedure?

    Anyhow.. teachers dont need to grow a pair.... they just need to sit up straight and take an interest...

    And vote.

    No re balloting. We just had a ballot. Im sure some will argue this constitutes a new offer. But there have been no resources put on table so we have not yet seen full hand. Ballots cost tens of thousands-let Jan show her full hand and then you can put it to a new ballot. But you can offer me a night with ten super models-I will still say no no and no because the misery and fecking around with results that will ensue wont be worth the pleasure! Jokes aside-a few posts will all that will be offered.


  • #43
    2011abc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,775 ✭✭✭2011abc


    Armelodie wrote: »
    It's quite simple, we will be expected to do this at home between corrections and setting exams (and further study we undertake of our own volition)...


    Enjoy your last 'proper' (back on Aug23...?)Summer Hols next year guys .It will be COMPULSORY PAID (BY US!) CPD after that and JCSA corrections the following year ...Or maybe some of us will finally learn to say "No!"


  • #44
    endakenny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 956 ✭✭✭endakenny


    Armelodie wrote: »
    Or maybe the alternative is quite simple.. do the work during June and the mid term breaks ! What about some schools where there is a noticable split between Junior Cert and Leaving Cert teachers. How is that equitable if half the school are in/at home correcting while the other are enjoying their holidays?
    When I was a pupil, most of the teachers taught Junior Cycle and Senior Cycle classes.
    Armelodie wrote: »
    A few of us were discussing the work to rule/strikes of 2000, (I wasn;t in the profession myself at the time) their were some with a real bitter taste in their mouth towards the Union. It was all fine and dandy, but then the teaching had to resume and the teachers had to catch up on the work for the exams. The vile being sputed against teachers was pretty palpable at the time.
    Then again though... teachers got the pay rise because of the action!!! And at the end of the day students got through their exams as they always do.
    Of course it was done via paying for S&S... and look where that has got us now trying to untangle it.
    The teachers always were going to get a pay rise under the benchmarking process in return for holding staff meetings and parent-teacher meetings outside school hours.

    In fairness, S&S are hardly stressful tasks. If teachers have to supervise during the 11 a.m. break or lunchtime, then they can have their tea break or lunch during a class period in which they do not have a class.

    Surely, it's better to have teachers doing S&S because they are better trained to deal with situations involving pupils than external people are.


  • #45
    amacca
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭amacca


    endakenny wrote: »

    In fairness, S&S are hardly stressful tasks. If teachers have to supervise during the 11 a.m. break or lunchtime, then they can have their tea break or lunch during a class period in which they do not have a class.

    How would you know if its stressful or not? Have you done it?

    I'd agree that sometimes, S&S on its own may not be stressful, but context is everything…there are also times when it can be very stressful - try and prevent or break up a fight, take all other kinds of sh1t and have to spend ages of your own time disciplining/chasing up the students in question etc, ultimately contacting parents that sometimes don't give a sh1t etc etc….when it was possible to opt out of it I heard many people that could did…..the money that was being paid wasn't worth the hassle……the reason they set the criteria so only small numbers could leave was they feared an exodus Imo

    It is also stressful on that day when you have full classes (some of them/or many of them with their own problems) every single period and your only break goes as does a portion of your lunch - you find yourself rushing from billy to jack and fcuking back again……….or the day every one of your so called "free periods" (which in the past were used mostly by myself to correct or prepare for other classes) has been gobbled up by croke park supervisions…probably discretionary cp hours in meetings now, + necessary "voluntary" stuff etc…there were lots of days I found myself frazzled…not getting a proper lunch…..

    Whether people like it or not teaching is a very high stress job and increasingly so given the way things are going …..yet for some reason it seems to continue to be a game of buckaroo (lets see if we can keep loading the donkeys up - without providing the proper framework, environment or resources for them to take the load - and some of the load isn't even necessary to improve student outcomes)…I hope the majority of teachers see sense and dig their heels in for the sake of the profession long term….so the job can be sustainable for people….its not the same type of job as most office jobs…its full on pressure, pressure, pressure…if you think about it you are giving a presentation and so much more to an audience up to 30 or more containing some members that don't want to be there with very little at your disposal to really enforce proper discipline given everyones right to education but ultimately very little bottom line when it comes to enforcing their responsibilities to avail of it or not disrupt others trying to get it….you are doing this up to 9 times a day 5 days a week + the preparation and correcting + voluntary and i don't care i think nearly everyone ends up either doing or being unfairly pressured into doing extra on top of the extra they have to do to keep their classes ticking over…

    and then at the end of the day someone who went to school at sometime says something along the lines of "sure thats not much to ask- just that little bit extra" …………oh and by the way we won't try and put ourselves in your shoes or engage with any of the real issues or solve no even think about any of the difficult situations that might arise or pressure government for the right things like provide a proper environment, resources, a proper disciplinary framework with fair speedy and effective consequences/rehabilitation or legal framework to work towards them etc…..no woe betide, its the lazy moany teachers fault…it always is.


  • #46
    Moody_mona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭Moody_mona


    endakenny wrote: »
    When I was a pupil, most of the teachers taught Junior Cycle and Senior Cycle classes.
    In fairness, S&S are hardly stressful tasks. If teachers have to supervise during the 11 a.m. break or lunchtime, then they can have their tea break or lunch during a class period in which they do not have a class.

    That is entirely dependent on the school climate.

    If teachers just had to supervise a break or lunch time you probably would hear a peep; there's more to it than that.


  • #47
    Chilli Con Kearney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 301 ✭✭Chilli Con Kearney


    endakenny wrote: »
    In fairness, S&S are hardly stressful tasks. If teachers have to supervise during the 11 a.m. break or lunchtime, then they can have their tea break or lunch during a class period in which they do not have a class.

    Have you done S&S? In what type of school? Sometimes it's crowd control when a teacher is out. No work left, no homework for students because it's first class Monday morning. It's a subject you've never taught before so can't bring them on yourself.

    In schools with poor discipline and weak structures, it can be like a jungle. Now that could be stressful, even a little, I think you might agree.


  • #48
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    endakenny wrote: »
    When I was a pupil, most of the teachers taught Junior Cycle and Senior Cycle classes.

    Fair enough, and yes, the exam class allocations do come in swings and roundabouts... but either way you look at it, it won't be fair across the board all of the time. For instance I know of 1 language teacher who always has leaving and junior cert classes (as she's the only teacher) so straight away she's at a disadvantage compared to her colleagues who get the exam year every 2-3 years (Plus she corrected for the SEC Leaving Cert... and I know a lot of teachers are packing that in as they have had enough 'free time' taken from them already).
    endakenny wrote: »
    The teachers always were going to get a pay rise under the benchmarking process in return for holding staff meetings and parent-teacher meetings outside school hours.

    To my knowledge it was a concession on the part of the teachers to do these first... and then the pay rise was granted.. they weren't 'always' going to get it. And if they were 'always' going to get it then what was the strike/work to rule about?
    endakenny wrote: »
    In fairness, S&S are hardly stressful tasks.
    It's the stress that results from having to waylay work... not the actual stress of having to supervise the class. (Although in some schools I would imagine that there are certain classes that are stressful having to do battle with after the Nth time that week).

    Also, if you are supposed to be preparing for your own classes and you get called to do the SnS when do you fit in the time to do 'your' job?

    At home... during the weekends ?

    Some of my 'home' time is already taken for prep. work anyway... why should I even be expected to be working at home in the first place?

    And this is the crux of the matter... once you concede to work for free then you are walked all over. Because it is expected of teachers to work from home unpaid, thus it is also expected that they will do MORE unpaid work at home. (And I know, some teachers can swing it so that they never do a tap at home and good luck to them... it's just I've never met them in my own experience).
    endakenny wrote: »
    If teachers have to supervise during the 11 a.m. break or lunchtime, then they can have their tea break or lunch during a class period in which they do not have a class.
    See above point...

    and this is what I see... teachers no longer able to sit and talk to each other over lunch because they are working at lunch time.. and when they do get time to eat between classes, what I see them doing is eating and working at the same time. Or being asked to have a meeting during lunch time whilst trying to eat, when did this become acceptable?
    endakenny wrote: »
    Surely, it's better to have teachers doing S&S because they are better trained to deal with situations involving pupils than external people are.

    The 'external people' you speak of used to be newly qualified teachers or else someone on low hours in the school was offered it. The difference is that they were 'paid' for the work that they did.


  • #49
    eyescreamcone
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,562 ✭✭✭eyescreamcone


    I'm not a teacher
    In my humble opinion it doesn't matter who corrects 3rd year exams. As a taxpayer I'd go with the cheaper option.

    If teachers strike - let them. Every day on strike puts more money in the state coffers.


  • #50
    endakenny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 956 ✭✭✭endakenny


    Armelodie wrote: »
    Or being asked to have a meeting during lunch time whilst trying to eat, when did this become acceptable?
    The CPA and the HRA didn't say that teacher had to hold meetings at lunchtime. If a teacher is being asked, as opposed to being told, to go to a lunchtime meeting then the teacher can say No. After all, there are health and safety issues associated with depriving a worker of time for eating.


  • #51
    endakenny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 956 ✭✭✭endakenny


    Armelodie wrote: »
    To my knowledge it was a concession on the part of the teachers to do these first... and then the pay rise was granted.. they weren't 'always' going to get it.
    Was it not guaranteed that you'd get the pay rise once you started having those meetings outside school hours? The INTO and the TUI trusted that they would get the money once they had started having the meetings outsides school hours. Why was the ASTI not willing to do the same?


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  • #52
    MrJones1973
    Closed Accounts Posts: 997 ✭✭✭MrJones1973


    Im not sure of your motives Enda and I think might time is wasted explaining how education system operates. You are not a teacher . This forum is designed for teachers not as a dummies guide to Education. Thats not saying you are a dummy but Im sure you get my drift.

    In the school where I teach the most stress is caused by s and s. Some kids are just out of control. But I really think these discussions with Enda are a waste. Become a teacher Enda or do simple Googgle searches for the info you require.

    Enda is a troll. If it quacks like a troll etc


  • #53
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    eyescreamcone wrote: »
    I'm not a teacher
    In my humble opinion it doesn't matter who corrects 3rd year exams. As a taxpayer I'd go with the cheaper option.

    Oh goody, a fellow taxpayer like myself, lets explore this....

    Sooo what's your cheaper option, outsource them to China?

    eyescreamcone wrote: »
    If teachers strike - let them.

    Thanks for the approval.
    eyescreamcone wrote: »
    Every day on strike puts more money in the state coffers.

    Hear hear!

    You don't have kids in education by any chance?


  • #54
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    Mrwhite1970 wrote: »
    Im not sure of your motives Enda and I think might time is wasted explaining how education system operates. You are not a teacher . This forum is designed for teachers not as a dummies guide to Education. Thats not saying you are a dummy but Im sure you get my drift.

    In the school where I teach the most stress is caused by s and s. Some kids are just out of control. But I really think these discussions with Enda are a waste. Become a teacher Enda or do simple Googgle searches for the info you require.

    Enda is a troll. If it quacks like a troll etc

    GENERAL FORUM-WIDE MOD WARNING :

    JUST REPORT ANY ALLEGED TROLLING.

    THE BEST THING YOU CAN DO IF ANOTHER MEMBER ANNOYS YOU IS TO CLICK ON THEIR NAME AND HIT THE 'IGNORE' OPTION.

    MrWHITE1970 Has been warned

    Do not refer to this warning on-thread.


  • #55
    implausible
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,937 ✭✭✭implausible


    acequion wrote: »
    Why do you think the new JC is so inevitable? Look at it this way. The new JCSA,as they call it,is supposed to be up and running already in English for the present first years.Yet in most schools,English classes are no different to last year,same course,same book.

    I have to jump in here as this is purely anecdotal and is the opposite of my experience. I can retort with anecdotal evidence of schools going with the only book that had been published in May because they wanted a booklist ready for parents and of every school that I am aware of in my area having a new textbook. All of the book companies, bar one, have one out.

    If/when the JCSA comes in, teachers do not want to spring new methods on their students or themselves for that matter, so for the English teachers I've been speaking to, oral work has become very important.

    As for my own opinion, well I do think it's inevitable. The JC needed to change, a system entirely based on terminal exams is unsuitable and unfair for many teenagers. My reservations are around the process of external moderation and the DES's ability to guarantee SEC marking of exams into the future.


  • #56
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    implausible wrote: »
    I have to jump in here as this is purely anecdotal and is the opposite of my experience. I can retort with anecdotal evidence of schools going with the only book that had been published in May because they wanted a booklist ready for parents and of every school that I am aware of in my area having a new textbook. All of the book companies, bar one, have one out.

    If/when the JCSA comes in, teachers do not want to spring new methods on their students or themselves for that matter, so for the English teachers I've been speaking to, oral work has become very important.

    As for my own opinion, well I do think it's inevitable. The JC needed to change, a system entirely based on terminal exams is unsuitable and unfair for many teenagers. My reservations are around the process of external moderation and the DES's ability to guarantee SEC marking of exams into the future.

    In our school a book was 'shot down' because the structure went against the spirit of the directive. I havn't seen the book but I think that there was parts of it referring to monitoring students progress by assessment or planning outcomes for each student (not too sure)... either way it was 'back to the old course' and if they want to bring in a new system the teachers will await further training/directive from union first!

    Also i've heard of publishing reps saying to teachers that 'everyone else in the area is using the new books so ye should think about getting on board' when the truth of the matter was that no school in the area had bought the books!

    Also in terms of the 'integrity' of the proposed JC exam...
    Is there a system of appeals in place?
    Where will the scripts be stored?
    Will special accommodations (spelling/grammer/ICT/reader/scribe etc) be given to every student that wants them without any reference to a cut off point? That could create massive problems for students looking for the same accommodations in the LCert. and being told 'no' a month before the exams commence!
    Who checks the grades awarded..
    Do teachers set whatever test they want to whatever marking scheme they want...

    and again.. is it all supposed to be done at home when we've 'finished work'?

    I'd really prefer to know first before accepting it.


  • #57
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,407 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Armelodie wrote: »
    In our school a book was 'shot down' because the structure went against the spirit of the directive. I havn't seen the book but I think that there was parts of it referring to monitoring students progress by assessment or planning outcomes for each student (not too sure)... either way it was 'back to the old course' and if they want to bring in a new system the teachers will await further training/directive from union first!

    Also i've heard of publishing reps saying to teachers that 'everyone else in the area is using the new books so ye should think about getting on board' when the truth of the matter was that no school in the area had bought the books!

    Also in terms of the 'integrity' of the proposed JC exam...
    Is there a system of appeals in place?
    Where will the scripts be stored?
    Will special accommodations (spelling/grammer/ICT/reader/scribe etc) be given to every student that wants them without any reference to a cut off point? That could create massive problems for students looking for the same accommodations in the LCert. and being told 'no' a month before the exams commence!
    Who checks the grades awarded..
    Do teachers set whatever test they want to whatever marking scheme they want...

    and again.. is it all supposed to be done at home when we've 'finished work'?

    I'd really prefer to know first before accepting it.

    All of that plus DEADLINES. It's hard enough getting project work out of students at the best of times, but at least when the SEC deadline is hanging over them the work usually gets done in some shape or form, although from experience I know that often involves teachers giving up free time to pull them through it. Will students take it as seriously if it's marked in house?


  • #58
    Cantremember
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    eyescreamcone wrote: »

    If teachers strike - let them. Every day on strike puts more money in the state coffers.

    If they do it'll be a one day thing. Not enough to piss parents off in a big way but something to make it look as if they're serious. If the govt get past the water issue then they might decide to face the teachers. A teacher strike of more than one day will turn the tide quickly and the govt will b able to give the teachers a kicking.


  • #59
    implausible
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,937 ✭✭✭implausible


    Armelodie wrote: »
    Also i've heard of publishing reps saying to teachers that 'everyone else in the area is using the new books so ye should think about getting on board' when the truth of the matter was that no school in the area had bought the books!

    Now, I'm hardly stupid enough to be basing that observation on what the book reps say!

    At Union meetings, INOTE conference and meeting with teachers in other schools in the county, I've found that the vast majority are using a new textbook, some like myself applied the new learning outcomes to the old book before deciding on a new text. ALL of the books refer to assessment and learning outcomes and I'm thankful for some of it as it's more useful that anything we were given at the laughably terrible inservice.


  • #60
    eyescreamcone
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,562 ✭✭✭eyescreamcone


    The general public are not interested in teacher's woes. Teaching is looked upon as a well paid soft job. Whether this is actually true is irrelevant.
    Very little public sympathy will be forthcoming for teachers as people will see the cost cutting changes to the junior cert as a positive thing.

    At the end of the day the junior cert is only a fancy 3rd year summer exam anyway and should be treated as such.


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  • #61
    Dave0301
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,714 ✭✭✭Dave0301


    eyescreamcone wrote: »
    The general public are not interested in teacher's woes. Teaching is looked upon as a well paid soft job. Whether this is actually true is irrelevant.
    Very little public sympathy will be forthcoming for teachers as people will see the cost cutting changes to the junior cert as a positive thing.

    At the end of the day the junior cert is only a fancy 3rd year summer exam anyway and should be treated as such.

    So pupils should only sit one set of formal external exams throughout their 2nd Level education?

    The high stake, one shot leaving cert? Right.

    This is the problem with the public making uninformed opinions.


This discussion has been closed.
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