Rubbish tyres on the majority of cars

Mantis Toboggan · 12-11-2014 03:46PM

I get what you're saying but how do you explain how my federal tyres last longer than the Goodyear I had before that?

No apparent loss of grip or anything like that and 160 euro left in my pocket!

12-11-2014 03:46PM

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

I must be one of those people that buy cheap tyres if you call €75/tyre cheap. I should have ended up in the ditch by now. Driving style would have a lot more to do with safety than so called cheap tyres. If you are constantly tailgating and driving without watching where you are going or going well over the speed limit then no tyre will save you if things go wrong.

Its very easy to demonstrate the difference between poor performing tyres and good ones even in normal driving. The rear tyres on my car were on it when I bought it (unknown make) and on a roundabout in the wet I was always aware that the back of the car was fond of stepping out (FWD car) even at normal speeds, now that was fine and I used to do it on purpose sometime for the craic but it was amazing how easily the tyres will let go.

On the other hand I have dogged it around the same roundabout at way above normal roundabout speeds and I cant get the Goodyears to loose grip on the rear...

bladebrew · 12-11-2014 03:47PM

I went to get tyres today, I asked for Michelin, or Firestone got good reviews, they don't keep any in stock, all have to be ordered, only 14s aswell so they are cheap enough, he said we only keep mid range tyres in stock, I can't remember the make he said to me, but I had never heard of them!
Then around the corner I saw a sign TYRES-€30 where could they be getting tyres for that price!? new Firestones are €65 which I thought was good!

bladebrew · 12-11-2014 03:49PM

Edit, I bought a corolla in Australia at the start of the year, the garage said we will put new tyres on the front for you, I thought nothing of it then went to collect her... Fecking Wanlis on her! So garages putting the cheapest tyre they have seems to an international trend!

MuppetCheck · 12-11-2014 03:52PM

Buddy Holly wrote: »

I get what you're saying but how do you explain how my federal tyres last longer than the Goodyear I had before that?

No apparent loss of grip or anything like that and 160 euro left in my pocket!

I swapped federals off a car due to a lack of grip. They didn't wear as much over the admittedly short distance as the Dunlops that replaced them because they weren't really biting in like their replacements. I'd be inclined to think you don't push the car hard enough to notice. An emergency stop would push the car hard enough to make the difference apparent however.

Mantis Toboggan · 12-11-2014 04:23PM

MuppetCheck wrote: »

I swapped federals off a car due to a lack of grip. They didn't wear as much over the admittedly short distance as the Dunlops that replaced them because they weren't really biting in like their replacements. I'd be inclined to think you don't push the car hard enough to notice. An emergency stop would push the car hard enough to make the difference apparent however.

Well I do drive the car on when I get the chance but I'm not rallying around the place. I've a conspiracy that all tyres are similar and with the premium price tyres the punter covers the advertising and marketing costs.

commited · 12-11-2014 04:30PM

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

I must be one of those people that buy cheap tyres if you call €75/tyre cheap. I should have ended up in the ditch by now. Driving style would have a lot more to do with safety than so called cheap tyres. If you are constantly tailgating and driving without watching where you are going or going well over the speed limit then no tyre will save you if things go wrong.

You can be the best driver in the world and still have someone pull out in front of you.

commited · 12-11-2014 04:34PM

Buddy Holly wrote: »

I've a conspiracy that all tyres are similar and with the premium price tyres the punter covers the advertising and marketing costs.

Definitely definitely not true. I drive sedately these days but would always put the best tyres on that I can afford and by ordering online they rarely cost much more than "cheap midrange" tyres offered by garages. I'd rather spend an extra €20/corner and know that they won't let me down when I need them.

kirving · 12-11-2014 04:52PM

What surprised me about one of the cheap .vs. premium tyre reviews I saw recently online wasn't even the difference in stopping distance. It was the speed that the car on cheap tyres was still doing at the point at which the car on premium tyres has stopped dead.

ianobrien · 12-11-2014 05:21PM

I'm another that is amazed by people spending €20k plus on a car, using it to transport themselves and family and then putting cheap ditchfinders under it. I know they will say "but I'm a careful/slow/not a boy racer/etc driver" but you'll never know when you have to do an emergency stop because of another stupid driver pulling out in front of you, or a kid running after a ball etc.

Dry grip is not the issue. It's trying to do an emergency stop today with the roads wet and slippy from leaves that we have today that you'll see the difference between decent tyres and the cheap rubbish.

My own experiences (I know, very unscientific as it's a small sample size) can be summed up as follows.

Nankangs under a Citroen AX GT (1360cc 8 velve engine). I could spin the wheels in third gear in the wet and the car was very lively at the back. It was fun to get oversteer on demand, but it happening at 20mph on a roundabout when not expected wasn't fun. Putting middle of the road Firestones transformed the car in the wet. I had grip!
2005 Nissan Almera. The car came with Bridgestone EP300's and the car was grand. Plenty of grip (but an annoying habit of snapping into oversteer over bumps when pushed). I tried various tyres, Matador (poor wet grip, washing out into understeer), Pirelli P6's (poor all round), Pirelli PZero (brilliant but wore very fast). The best was Continental Premium Contact 2. They were softer than the Bridgestones but as they were softer they generated more grip in the rear in the wet. I had them several times on that car
1997 Toyota Starlet. The best I found on that was Yokohama A539's. I went through a phase of cheap and cheerful as I was burning them off but the Yokohama's were the best on that I found. The car was used for Autotests so tyres were not lasting very long.
2014 Seat Leon FR. That came with Continental Contisportcontact 5's from the factory. Having experienced the grip produced by them in the wet I'll be getting them again for that machine.

TL/DR - Cheap tyres are grand in the dry, terrible in the wet and you'll never know when you need wet weather grip due to other plonkers on the road.

MuppetCheck · 12-11-2014 05:24PM

You'll be getting them soon too for the FR - they wear veeeeery fast! My last two are going off mine tomorrow! A guy in work got 16k from them on his new vrs:eek:

Del2005 · 12-11-2014 05:25PM

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

The grip is fine, the road noise is not great though.

If your traction control is kicking in then your grip isn't fine. My cars have never had TC and I'm not sedate at taking off. The only times I've gotten wheel spin, which is what your TC is stopping, is when I've tried in my normal driving the car never spins or slides

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

I should have ended up in the ditch by now. Driving style would have a lot more to do with safety than so called cheap tyres. If you are constantly tailgating and driving without watching where you are going or going well over the speed limit then no tyre will save you if things go wrong.

Even the best driver has to emergency brake at some stage and that's when you find out how good your tyres are. Why don't you head out to a damp empty motorway and while driving at your normal speed stand on your brakes like something has just fallen off an over pass just in front of you, then tell us what you think of your cheap tyres

ianobrien · 12-11-2014 05:27PM

MuppetCheck wrote: »

You'll be getting them soon too for the FR - they wear veeeeery fast! My last two are going off mine tomorrow! A guy in work got 16k from them on his new vrs:eek:

Mine are not too bad. I've 13k on them and they appear to have plenty left. That being said, I'll have to measure them tomorrow as It'll be too late when I get home from work.

sh1tstirrer · 12-11-2014 05:30PM

commited wrote: »

You can be the best driver in the world and still have someone pull out in front of you.

Ffs I'm driving over 30 years and that has happen plenty times during that time.

Viper_JB · 12-11-2014 05:37PM

There seems to be a bit of misunderstanding about what constitutes a good tyre, generally really really grippy tires wear faster as the rubber compound they're made from is a bit softer which aids in the grip. Some of the cheaper brands will last for ages but have absolutely no grip as the compound they're made from is a pretty hard rubber, a slow wearing tyre is not the end all be all of tyre quality...if anything the slower the tyre wears the worse the grip.

Tyres with high ratings for wet weather grip and stopping distances is what you want and that generally ends up being uniroyals and premium brands...if there's only one thing you splash out on for the car it should be the tyres, they're responsible for all your accelerating, all your braking, the only thing that holds you on the road while cornering and may save the life of you and your family some day.

ardmacha · 12-11-2014 06:01PM

Buddy Holly wrote: »

Well I do drive the car on when I get the chance but I'm not rallying around the place. I've a conspiracy that all tyres are similar and with the premium price tyres the punter covers the advertising and marketing costs.

All that advertising must have confused the third party testers as well.

sh1tstirrer wrote:

Ffs I'm driving over 30 years and that has happen plenty times during that time.

Of course and as a responsible driver you had left an appropriate stopping distance. But that doesn't meet that something won't happen today, entirely out of your control, and stopping a metre shorter might be important and spending a Euro a week more on tyres can do a lot to achieve this.

UnknownSpecies · 12-11-2014 06:08PM

Good thread this, really making me think about future tyre purchases. I wouldn't consider myself clueless about cars or their upkeep but I've never considered buying proper branded tyres for my bangers since it just didn't seem like a good use of the extra money. I always thought that once it has decent thread then you're fine but I'm glad I know that's not the case now. What brands do people recommend without paying more than the car is worth? I'm talking 100-150 a corner?

Gazzmonkey · 12-11-2014 06:12PM

Del2005 wrote: »

If your traction control is kicking in then your grip isn't fine. My cars have never had TC and I'm not sedate at taking off. The only times I've gotten wheel spin, which is what your TC is stopping, is when I've tried in my normal driving the car never spins or slides

My grip is more than fine, believe me I've tested it :cool:

TC has nothing to do with it, plus I have ESP always on to make skid corrections if needed, which happened the other night when I ploughed into some huge spot flooding and started to aqua plane, dash lights went on, car corrected itself, job done.

on a side note, I actually enjoy when the tyres wear out, you can have some serious fun in corners & roundabouts. :pac:

cnoc · 12-11-2014 06:14PM

Tails142 wrote: »

I was in Atlas tyres in Blanchardstown the other day. Was getting two front tyres fitted, Bridgestones costing €235 a corner.

What type of Bridgestone were you buying?

ianobrien · 12-11-2014 06:15PM

dorgasm wrote: »

Good thread this, really making me think about future tyre purchases. I wouldn't consider myself clueless about cars or their upkeep but I've never considered buying proper branded tyres for my bangers since it just didn't seem like a good use of the extra money. I always thought that once it has decent thread then you're fine but I'm glad I know that's not the case now. What brands do people recommend without paying more than the car is worth? I'm talking 100-150 a corner?

Personally I generally go for Michelin, Bridgestone, Continental, Pirelli, Dunlop or Goodyear, knowing that not every tyre they make is a good one. I have fitted Firestone in the past to a car that I knew I wouldn't be driving on too hard and they have performed adequately. I've also fitted Yokohama's and BF Goodrich for special requirements.

Not being smart, what's the make and model of your car and people here can advise on both premium brand and good "second string" brands.

galwayjohn89 · 12-11-2014 06:28PM

Had cheap tyres on the family runaround a 1998 Polo 1litre. It was awful at accelerating and breaking, especially in the wet. Wheel Spins in 1st gear, and sliding when breaking. Finally I convinced them to change to Goodyears all round. The difference is remarkable and my hole family are converted.

Just bought a Saab 9-3. Had two brand new landsail tyres on it and two 6 year old bridgestones on the back. At first just changed the back tyres to Goodyears Eagle F1s, and decided to try out the landsails already on the car. 2 days later was back getting the landsails off and new Eagle F1s on the front. Difference in breaking, cornering and accelerating is amazing. Literally transformed the car.

UnknownSpecies · 12-11-2014 07:14PM

ianobrien wrote: »

Personally I generally go for Michelin, Bridgestone, Continental, Pirelli, Dunlop or Goodyear, knowing that not every tyre they make is a good one. I have fitted Firestone in the past to a car that I knew I wouldn't be driving on too hard and they have performed adequately. I've also fitted Yokohama's and BF Goodrich for special requirements.

Not being smart, what's the make and model of your car and people here can advise on both premium brand and good "second string" brands.

Driving a Peugeot 106 stopgap at the moment. Didn't buy the last set and just checked them, I have Super Steels on the front and a set of Continentals on the back.

Currently in the process of buying a 318 though so hopefully buying tyres for the 106 won't be my problem!

Boskowski · 13-11-2014 12:56AM

Its insane people spending 40 grand or more on a car but 10 or 20 Euro price difference per tyre is out of the question. But its not just the tyres it reflects the general attitude towards cars and driving here I'm afraid. One reason why I'd be reluctant to even look at an Irish car when buying.

Dord · 13-11-2014 08:32AM

Continentals on my current car and Firestone's on my previous one. I think I'll be changing the continentals in the new year though. Prob looking at Uniroyals, they seem to get good reviews. A good wet weather tyre here is a necessity.

My mother has some ditchfinders that came on her car and didn't understand when I explained road legal does not equal safe. If I had the spare cash I'd buy her a new set of tyres myself.

commited · 13-11-2014 09:53AM

After reading this thread, is it worth having a dedicated "Recommend me some tyres" thread? A lot of people would perhaps ask the question who wouldn't normally! May be a good way to share good offers found etc. I know I'll be looking for some 225/45/17 soon and at the moment Eagle F1s are winning @ €90/corner + fitting.

Special Circumstances · 13-11-2014 10:02AM

commited wrote: »

After reading this thread, is it worth having a dedicated "Recommend me some tyres" thread? A lot of people would perhaps ask the question who wouldn't normally! May be a good way to share good offers found etc. I know I'll be looking for some 225/45/17 soon and at the moment Eagle F1s are winning @ €90/corner + fitting.

A "big up for decent tyre fitters" might be a more useful and less argument prone thread. Details of tyres fitted and price required. Tyre fitters who actually carry or can quickly source decent tyres at reasonable prices. Must be able to tell "inside" from "outside" on asymmetric tyres and not mangle alloys.

You'd think it was a small ask but...

tossy · 13-11-2014 10:51AM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I've been buying branded part-worns from a reputable Dublin outfit for a while now and no issues. 4x Michelin 18 inch tyres on her now for €200 and plenty of life left in them.

Wouldn't be putting Chinese crap on it, but not prepared to pay €200 a corner either so this is a decent compromise .. especially as I had to replace one of them last week because of a screw getting embedded in it (stupid construction site on my way home)

Thats the very definition of false economy, i don't know where you are getting a figure of 200e a corner from ? premium 225/40//18's can be got for max 150 these days, so you are paying 1/3 of the cost of a new set for 1/3 to maybe 1/2 of the lifespan of a new set - makes no sense to me.

tossy · 13-11-2014 10:55AM

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

I'm currently using 17" Leao nova force tyres as they came in at €60 each.

Seem to be a decent tyre but road noise isn't good, anyway my traction control will keep them in check.

You are dead right, traction control is actually designed to overcome the negative effects of **** tyres

Traction control on 99% of cars on the road consists of the car cutting power to the wheel that's slipping, so your wheel starts slipping because of the crap tyre and the car cuts the power to it....problem solved . :rolleyes:

dr.fuzzenstein · 13-11-2014 11:57AM

Special Circumstances wrote: »

A "big up for decent tyre fitters" might be a more useful and less argument prone thread. Details of tyres fitted and price required. Tyre fitters who actually carry or can quickly source decent tyres at reasonable prices. Must be able to tell "inside" from "outside" on asymmetric tyres and not mangle alloys.

You'd think it was a small ask but...

+1000
A fitter who will balance all 4 wheels, not hammer new weights over the old ones, will use stick-on weights on nice alloy wheels, replace the valves and caps, get the tires on the right way round, inform me when an alloy is warped, rather than just stick it back on without telling me, who doesn't subscribe to the mindset that any wheel, no matter how warped and badly balanced (or not at all) is "grand" once you stick on the rear, yes, that would be nice.
It used to be that tire places refused to balance rear wheels, even well-known large chains!
That to me is simply incomprehensible, how can a tire fitter argue that "ah shure, balancing is only so your steering wheel doesn't shake, it has not other purpose, so balancing the rears is completely unnecessary". Maybe in the 50's for a Morris Minor that will never go above 30 mp/h and was driven by a farmer and mostly had chickens for passengers, but not for a modern car on the motorway going 120+ km/h! Argh is all I can say.
You'd think that this is all the most basic requirement, like wiring a plug or changing a lightbulb to an electrician, but I am amazed how often one or more, or even all of the above, is gotten wrong.
And this is not just stories from long ago, I did get my car back earlier this year from a tire outlet in Limerick where the stick on weights where left on, one single new weight was hammered on the rim on one wheel that got a knock and was warped, (I wasn't told of that, of course) and needless to say it drove like sh*te.
If you are doing a 45 minute motorway commute, any wheel where the balancing is even a little off will be a huge annoyance.
Needless to say I won't be going back.

Special Circumstances · 13-11-2014 12:04PM

I think we may have been going to the same places Doc.

Rubbish tyres on the majority of cars

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