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BER is this rediculous?

  • 02-11-2014 09:55PM
    #1
    zipee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 158 ✭✭


    So I bought my house 12 mths ago and it had an E2 BER rating. Since then I put additional insulation in attic, installed a set of double glazed PVC French doors and internally insulated one entire wall and externally insulated all 3 other walls. (Detached bungalow 1950s). I also installed thermostats on at least 50% of the rads, changed at least 50% of bulbs to energy saving. I got the grant for the insulation and this new BER assessment is as a result of that.



    So what would you expect the improvement in my rating to be?? I thought I would go to D or C3 but noooo. E1!!! Wtf??! Seriously the insulation alone cost almost €14,000.

    Is this not nuts? I feel like contacting seai & complaining. Do they take complaints???

    Any thoughts or opinions welcome. Would you feel let down by this??

    Edited to add: I forgot I also insulated internally a flat roof in sitting room.


Comments

  • #2
    MicktheMan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,953 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    Would you not be better addressing your issues to the assessor who carried out the assessment?

    Btw, I hope you didn't rely solely on the original ber cert / report to guide you on where to spend your money.


  • #3
    zipee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 158 ✭✭zipee


    MicktheMan wrote: »
    Would you not be better addressing your issues to the assessor who carried out the assessment?

    Btw, I hope you didn't rely solely on the original ber cert / report to guide you on where to spend your money.

    Hi

    I totally intend to raise my issues with assessor, insulation man & grant body! Thought I might get wisdom & opinions here first.

    Assessor just said well it's your boiler that's letting you down but surely the same old boiler let the last assessment down too!!!

    I insulated cos house was frigging freezing last winter nothing to do with any assessment other than mine of the fact the house was freezing.


  • #4
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    zipee wrote: »
    Hi

    I totally intend to raise my issues with assessor, insulation man & grant body! Thought I might get wisdom & opinions here first.

    Assessor just said well it's your boiler that's letting you down but surely the same old boiler let the last assessment down too!!!

    I insulated cos house was frigging freezing last winter nothing to do with any assessment other than mine of the fact the house was freezing.

    The plot thickens.. What would the BER result be if you changed the boiler ?


  • #5
    zipee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 158 ✭✭zipee


    BryanF wrote: »
    The plot thickens.. What would the BER result be if you changed the boiler ?

    Probably E2 again athis rate !!! Why bother????


  • #6
    MicktheMan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,953 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    zipee wrote: »
    Hi

    I totally intend to raise my issues with assessor, insulation man & grant body! Thought I might get wisdom & opinions here first.

    Assessor just said well it's your boiler that's letting you down but surely the same old boiler let the last assessment down too!!!

    I insulated cos house was frigging freezing last winter nothing to do with any assessment other than mine of the fact the house was freezing.

    I'm curious. Would a BER rating of, say, "C" make you feel warmer?

    The real result will be the improvement, if any, in your comfort levels and heating costs this winter. The reason I say "if any" is that last winter wasn't that cold but very windy. If you were freezing then the house may suffer from poor air tightness which adding insulation doesn't generally address.


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  • #7
    zipee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 158 ✭✭zipee


    MicktheMan wrote: »
    I'm curious. Would a BER rating of, say, "C" make you feel warmer?

    The real result will be the improvement, if any, in your comfort levels and heating costs this winter. The reason I say "if any" is that last winter wasn't that cold but very windy. If you were freezing then the house may suffer from poor air tightness which adding insulation doesn't generally address.

    A C rating would make me feel less ripped off. BER has to be a rip off. I was forced to pay for it to get the grant and what is the point of it? If the answer is ignore the rating and enjoy the comfort!


  • #8
    MicktheMan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,953 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    zipee wrote: »
    A C rating would make me feel less ripped off. BER has to be a rip off. I was forced to pay for it to get the grant and what is the point of it? If the answer is ignore the rating and enjoy the comfort!

    On whose advise did you have the works done?
    Were you not advised (did you not ask) what the new ber rating would be (before you had the works done)?

    Sounds very much to me that you ploughed ahead without any/much independent input / advise or research on your part, are now regretting it and looking for someone else to blame.


  • #9
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    BryanF wrote: »
    The plot thickens.. What would the BER result be if you changed the boiler ?
    zipee wrote: »
    Probably E2 again athis rate
    wrong


  • #10
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 42,856 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    zipee, to be honest on first reading it would appear that something is wrong.... but there are many factors which need to be taken into account

    1. what were the original windows
    2. what is the wall construction, i assume cavity block?
    3. what is the boiler? make and model?
    4. is the cylinder insulated and is there a thermostat on it?


    just to explain, an E2 rating is >380 whereas an E1 rating is >300. so in reality you could have a 21% reduction in energy useage and still only go from E2 to E1.

    If your main boiler is a crappy old solid fuel range then regardless of the changes, your pissing away 50% of your energy at source.


  • #11
    zipee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 158 ✭✭zipee


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    zipee, to be honest on first reading it would appear that something is wrong.... but there are many factors which need to be taken into account

    1. what were the original windows
    2. what is the wall construction, i assume cavity block?
    3. what is the boiler? make and model?
    4. is the cylinder insulated and is there a thermostat on it?


    just to explain, an E2 rating is >380 whereas an E1 rating is >300. so in reality you could have a 21% reduction in energy useage and still only go from E2 to E1.

    If your main boiler is a crappy old solid fuel range then regardless of the changes, your pissing away 50% of your energy at source.

    Thanks for that! Very constructive answer. The windows PVC double glaze - pretty good ones (as in decent distance between panes) and relatively new by the look. But assessor said he couldn't take them into account as I would certification as to what heat standard they were.

    Walls are cavity block and red brick on front.

    Boiler is a ideal classic nf70 I think.

    And you are right the cylinder jacket has seen better days & no thermostat on it.

    I just expected a higher jump in ratings from all the work that was done.


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  • #12
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 42,856 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    i couldnt find any accrediated efficiency for the ideal classic nf70, so that means a default efficiency of probably 65%

    id have to assume that the assessor calculated the revised u value of the walls.

    €1500 spent on a new condensing boiler would have been a major influence on the rating, but as bryanf says above, the BER rating isnt a reflection of the comfort and savings you will make because of these changes.


  • #13
    Rabbo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 637 ✭✭✭Rabbo


    It's also quite possible that the original BER rating was incorrect.

    I have come across a similar case to yours where my rating after the improvement works was actually worse than a previous rating (done by an assessor who has since left the BER scene).

    There's alot of BERs out there that aren't worth the paper they are written on


  • #14
    RITwing
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 246 ✭✭RITwing


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    €1500 spent on a new condensing boiler would have been a major influence on the rating, but as bryanf says above, the BER rating isnt a reflection of the comfort and savings you will make because of these changes.

    Indeed. I have found that one may "jump" from E3 to D1 by simply changing a very bad boiler for a very good one. One would not notice any change in comfort from that. But if you were selling on one could trick buyers with this alone.

    OP don't despair you have not wasted any effort here assuming this is the house you intend to keep living in. One cannot "chase the rate" alone , or to put it another way , it is a little more complex than that.


  • #15
    zipee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 158 ✭✭zipee


    I have spoken with insulation guy and he thinks its mad so going to chat to BER assessor about it again. Thanks for helpful replies. May look at new boiler next year. Broke for now.


  • #16
    caesarthechimp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 204 ✭✭caesarthechimp


    RITwing wrote: »
    Indeed. I have found that one may "jump" from E3 to D1 by simply changing a very bad boiler for a very good one. One would not notice any change in comfort from that. But if you were selling on one could trick buyers with this alone.
    One might notice a large reduction in fuel bills though. So it is hardly a "trick".


  • #17
    Greenmachine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,063 ✭✭✭Greenmachine


    How thick was the original insulation in the attic, and how thick is the new stuff.
    Was the 14k before or after any tax right off.


  • #18
    galwaytt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,781 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    ..in the same vein, I saw a house 'gain' a BER increment just by changing lightbulbs.

    Does the house behave differently because of it ? Nope. Is it any colder/warmer ? Nope.

    But it makes for a nicer BER as ornament, 'cos that's all it is.

    Which would you prefer: a 'good' BER that costs €xxx to run per annum, or a 'bad' BER that cost less than that to run ... ?

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  • #19
    MOTM
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 412 ✭✭MOTM


    galwaytt wrote: »
    ..in the same vein, I saw a house 'gain' a BER increment just by changing lightbulbs.

    Does the house behave differently because of it ? Nope. Is it any colder/warmer ? Nope.

    But it makes for a nicer BER as ornament, 'cos that's all it is.

    Which would you prefer: a 'good' BER that costs €xxx to run per annum, or a 'bad' BER that cost less than that to run ... ?

    This is the same as the more efficient boiler thing above. If you have a house with more efficient lighting and nothing else changed it will be cheaper to run, all other things being equal.


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