Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Note in OP, 1/09

Talisman · 26-10-2014 11:33AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

2) Rodgers is very very unlikely to get two top signings in 1 window who both hit the ground running. He has shown as a manager he's not very good in the transfer market to no honest.

I don't think Rodgers wants to sign the finished product top quality type players that are required.

gosplan · 26-10-2014 11:37AM

Chill out Liverpool fans.

There's always a drop off in results from big teams after midweek CL.

Liverpool were unlucky not to win, City unlucky not to draw/win, Arsenal lucky that Sunderland handed the game to them and so on.

It's never been the case that people just sweep teams aside after a midweek CL match. You're usually flat and if you get te rub of the green you win.

Plus Hull drew with Arsenal last week.

The problem is there's waaaayyyy to much focus. Every time Liverpool play you get a '16 conclusions' article or something like it. There really aren't that many conclusions to be drawn.

The way it's looking, Liverpool are taking some time to settle but they're lucky because Chelsea aside, everyone else is in the same boat.

The first team to put together a solid run of results will take a hold on 2nd place (discounting the possibility of Southampton lasting). The odds might be slightly stacked against Man U as they've played a lot of their easier fixtures, but then they don't have CL and they've such quality that if it clicks then it mightn't matter who they're playing.

It's just whoever emerges from their funk first.

But nobody needs new players or anything revolutionary and there's no sensible questions to be asked of the managers despite all the journalists.

City are in a lull because they won the league last year.

Man Utd are going through huge transition.

Liverpool are going through huge transition.

Arsenal practically have a first team injured.

gafferino · 26-10-2014 11:51AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

There's no real desire for impartial analysis from the majority of this thread.

Would you consider yourself a poster who gives impartial analysis?

Lord Trollington · 26-10-2014 11:57AM

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Top 4 is wide open. If your a couple of points off 4th your still well in contention. As you say, only one team you can bank on for concistancy and that's Chelsea .

Regardless of how bad your actually playing if you can win badly at QPR etc then no reason why you shouldn't be challanging.

I would be concerned if you managed to get berehino in January. Great bit of stuff for west brom this season.

In the short term, I have no idea why Rodgers won't give borini a chance alongside Mario. I think you will get more from him with two up front and its not like borini can't score goals

Agree. With the way the league is looking thus far you could see an "unkown" CL team breaking into the top 4.

Pilsbury Doughboy · 26-10-2014 11:58AM

Hey Alan, I think you might get less hostility towards your posts if you didn't absolutely flog the words delusion and deluded to death or if you didn't use so many confused faced emoticons, but most of all stop hankering for Rafa, let it go, gain some closure, move on, you'll feel better for it, trust me.

DVDM93 · 26-10-2014 12:07PM

super_furry wrote: »

We have to stop buying average in-form Premier League players. From Charlie Adam to Stewart Downing to Lambert and Lovren, it's like we let the Match of the Day pundits pick our transfer targets.

This is spot on. It's Berahino at the moment. A good player with great potential but has a lot to prove yet. He's in form and playing brilliantly to be fair. West Brom hand apparently slapped a £25m price tag on him. Right up our alley, an unproven but potentially good unproven overpriced player. Sign him up!

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2014/10/rumour-mill-liverpool-linked-saido-berahino/

monkey9 · 26-10-2014 12:09PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

There's no real desire for impartial analysis from the majority of this thread.

You included.

Pilsbury Doughboy · 26-10-2014 12:09PM

DVDM93 wrote: »

This is spot on. It's Berahino at the moment. A good player with great potential but has a lot to prove yet. He's in form and playing brilliantly to be fair. West Brom hand apparently slapped a £25m price tag on him. Right up our alley, an unproven but potentially good unproven overpriced player. Sign him up!

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2014/10/rumour-mill-liverpool-linked-saido-berahino/

Yup couldn't agree more, Berahino is just the flavour of the month, he's done fack all, he's got a few goals a good few of then were pens, but nothing outstanding from what I've seen of him, £25m is extracting the urine tbf.

Lord Trollington · 26-10-2014 12:14PM

Even if there was £60m available, who could we sign.

Very few top players move in January unless they aren't happy or out of favor at their own club.

We need a top class DM and Striker. We need a RB and another top CB. That's 4 players.

That really dilutes the quality you can get.

DVDM93 · 26-10-2014 12:22PM

Putting it in the laziest way possible, we seem to have an act with buying players that come with an excuse if they're not living up to expectations. Either they're plagued with injury, thus not given a chance (not their fault) or else they're 'only young yet with bags of potential'. Yes, but how many of these work out? For example, we seem to splash the cash on 10 young players with potential and maybe 2 of these work out. The others fade off in to the darkness and are inevitably sold off. At this rate, players who prove their potential will be sold off when bigger clubs come knocking anyway, a la Suarez, so what's the point? For once can we just splash the fcuking cash at 2/3 world class players rather than 10 Match of the Day loving Moneyball players? I get the whole idea of buying young and investing in the squad, I do, but it just isn't happening.

edit: this is a general comment not just specific to January. We've had too many Downings, Carrols, Lamberts, etc... for my liking.

doc_17 · 26-10-2014 12:28PM

DVDM93 wrote: »

Putting it in the laziest way possible, we seem to have an act with buying players that come with an excuse if they're not living up to expectations. Either they're plagued with injury, thus not given a chance (not their fault) or else they're 'only young yet with bags of potential'. Yes, but how many of these work out? For example, we seem to splash the cash on 10 young players with potential and maybe 2 of these work out. The others fade off in to the darkness and are inevitably sold off. At this rate, players who prove their potential will be sold off when bigger clubs come knocking anyway, a la Suarez, so what's the point? For once can we just splash the fcuking cash at 2/3 world class players rather than 10 Match of the Day loving Moneyball players? I get the whole idea of buying young and investing in the squad, I do, but it just isn't happening.

edit: this is a general comment not just specific to January. We've had too many Downings, Carrols, Lamberts, etc... for my liking.

I agree with the sentiment. Pass on your list to Rodgers ASAP

klose · 26-10-2014 12:28PM

Wouldn't be dumping lambert in the downing/Carroll pot tbh.

Talisman · 26-10-2014 12:30PM

Lord Trollington wrote: »

Even if there was £60m available, who could we sign.

Very few top players move in January unless they aren't happy or out of favor at their own club.

We need a top class DM and Striker. We need a RB and another top CB. That's 4 players.

That really dilutes the quality you can get.

It would be completely foolish to sign another 4 players in January considering the influx of players in the summer. I would expect the squad to be trimmed before more players are signed. Borini, Lucas and Johnson are likely to depart.

MD1990 · 26-10-2014 12:32PM

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Responses from a critical mass of frequent posters on this thread to their posts are prejudiced. No matter what point the guys make, in whatever style, the core of their point is lost immediately as someone jumps on them - very much attacking the poster.

The guys have been consistently posting on this thread years now - as I have been. The jibes fired in Alan's direction now actually give me a chuckle as he used to be accused of the complete opposite when he first joined the forum - I remember PM'ing him at the time asking him to tone down the positive bias towards everything Liverpool.

In terms of the whole 'retarded' stuff. I won't comment as I have used the term myself to describe view on here :P

In fairness to the guys. Both has come out and said that they were wrong about BR. That is a fairly bold thing to do when you are being shouted down every other post.

The core of what they are saying is correct through. It can be contested somewhat but the dismissals raise serious questions about the appetite for impartial analysis on this thread.

You can be certain if Rafa was our manager he would be looking at the positives.

DVDM93 · 26-10-2014 12:33PM

klose wrote: »

Wouldn't be dumping lambert in the downing/Carroll pot tbh.

Fair point, Downing and Carroll were a lot younger and Lambert was fairly on the cheap. But you get the point I'm making in general?

Agent Coulson · 26-10-2014 12:37PM

How many of these young players with potential have really worked out since Gerard Houllier started buying young French players in 1998.

How much money has been wasted on all these players by Houllier, Benitez, Hodgson, Daglish & Rodgers.

Albert Einstein:

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

DVDM93 · 26-10-2014 12:39PM

doc_17 wrote: »

I agree with the sentiment. Pass on your list to Rodgers ASAP

I did, have text him a few times but he doesn't like the idea of not being able to use the word 'young' before he mentions one of his players.

Young Raheem, Young Markovic, etc... all good.

Young doesn't exactly work as well with a 25 year old Marco Reus though, which is fair enough.

The only way around this I feel would signing Ashley and Luke Young, which would be no better.

Former Arsenal Swedish legend Freddie Youngberg might have worked a few years back

jesus_thats_gre · 26-10-2014 01:04PM

MD1990 wrote: »

You can be certain if Rafa was our manager he would be looking at the positives.

OK, not an invalid point. it boils down to trust I guess and it's built in different ways. Rogers and Rafa are very different.

In that context. I always felt that results under Rafa were the result of planning and tactics. I never thought we were going to get tonked and the worst I feared was a disappointing draw - happened far too often. I was often bored to death but once we went 1 nil up, you were certain you would win.

Under BR, I am often sitting on the edge of my seat with sheer excitement and adrenalin. Going into a game, I often wonder whether it will be 3 - 1 or 1 - 3. We seem to get the rub of the green through relentlessly attacking the ball - penalties or bookings. Even when we are 3 nil up, I dread that we are just one mistake away from falling apart.

Both managers spur very different sets of emotions. Sometimes stability and control creates trust. Sometimes an attacking style of play builds fondness. Sometimes it might be how they handle the press.

Both had and have their flaws. A hybrid of the two would be a dream come through. But in consistently focusing on our defence and calling out the need for Gerrard to be used less and a DM to be signed, I bet you can figure out where a manager starts to builds trust with me.

For now, under BR, it all feels a bit ad hoc and it doesn't inspire me with confidence too much. He is obviously a capable manager but this current dip in form is becoming a somewhat protracted affair.

jesus_thats_gre · 26-10-2014 01:08PM

Agent Coulson wrote: »

How many of these young players with potential have really worked out since Gerard Houllier started buying young French players in 1998.

How much money has been wasted on all these players by Houllier, Benitez, Hodgson, Daglish & Rodgers.

Albert Einstein:

Sterling is about all I can think of.

1 in 20 working out with the rest being sold off for a 2/3m profit seems to the plan - not an invalid one either.

The plan defo seems to centre around finding value where someone else doesn't see it. Sturrige, Countinho and Suarez, even Mario, seem to fit the bill too - talented but troubled or never quite hit the level expected.

J Mysterio · 26-10-2014 01:22PM

Charlie19 wrote: »

What a captain.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/liverpool-boss-brendan-rodgers-makes-4509504

His wife wasnt very... Good looking.

Gbear · 26-10-2014 01:27PM

Agent Coulson wrote: »

How many of these young players with potential have really worked out since Gerard Houllier started buying young French players in 1998.

How much money has been wasted on all these players by Houllier, Benitez, Hodgson, Daglish & Rodgers.

Albert Einstein:

There was a lot of hit and hope sorts of signings under Houllier. Cheyrou, LeTallec, Pongolle and the likes were nobodies as far as I remember

Rather than a scattergun approach of getting in a load of cheap young players and hoping for a miracle, we've bought highly rated players for whom there's a high probability of turning into excellent players.
Players like Moreno, Coutinho, Sakho, Origi have played to high standard for national teams or at least underage national teams, captained teams, played in world cups, won trophies or whatever. They're not some randomers from League 2.

Saying money was wasted on them when most of them have played fewer than 20 games for us and won't be physically at their peaks for 3-5 years is just plain idiotic.

Again, you can disagree that our transfer strategy ought to slowly build over a period of years but I don't think you can argue with how we've gone about acheiving that during the last window.

Harry Palmr · 26-10-2014 01:42PM

The only things that the club got wrong was the failure to bag a striker that would fit the style (and I don't mean an expensive one - see Sakho, Pelle, etc) a ready to go DM and coaching the flippin' defence. The current malaise is not systemic but it is disquieting, the jury is out until Sturridge has got a game or two under his belt but right now all that's needed is some balls from Rodgers - be proactive with the squad and that means being willing to play two up, be willing to drop Sterling for Coutinho for a game. Start Can for a few games over Allen or even *whispers it* Gerrard

gugsy · 26-10-2014 01:42PM

Gbear wrote: »

Players like Moreno, Coutinho, Sakho, Origi have played to high standard for national teams or at least underage national teams, captained teams, played in world cups, won trophies or whatever. They're not some randomers from League 2.

Saying money was wasted on them when most of them have played fewer than 20 games for us and won't be physically at their peaks for 3-5 years is just plain idiotic.

Again, you can disagree that our transfer strategy ought to slowly build over a period of years but I don't think you can argue with how we've gone about acheiving that during the last window.

Totally Agree. We are too quick to be down rogers neck. Last year was a great year but only for one man. I agree the team isn't performing as well as it should but we need to realise we are still building its a young team and they will grow to become a great team. I have faith in Rogers.

jesus_thats_gre · 26-10-2014 01:47PM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The only things that the club got wrong was the failure to bag a striker that would fit the style (and I don't mean an expensive one - see Sakho, Pelle, etc) a ready to go DM and coaching the flippin' defence. The current malaise is not systemic but it is disquieting, the jury is out until Sturridge has got a game or two under his belt but right now all that's needed is some balls from Rodgers - be proactive with the squad and that means being willing to play two up, be willing to drop Sterling for Coutinho for a game. Start Can for a few games over Allen or even *whispers it* Gerrard

I have been quiet impressed with Can in his last 2 appearance. I wonder how he would do replacing Gerrard but I would be open to it. On that point, I quite liked seeing Gerrard high up the pitch towards the the end of the match - you could see flashes of his ability to burst into the box but he doesn't seem to have the legs anymore.

I have also been quite happy with Allen. He provides a solid option and we need him.

You point about Sturridge is also valid. I am holding off on expressing any real concern until he is back for at least a handful of games. He provides a focal point that Mario can't seem to do - curious to see both together actually.

jesus_thats_gre · 26-10-2014 01:50PM

gugsy wrote: »

Totally Agree. We are too quick to be down rogers neck. Last year was a great year but only for one man. I agree the team isn't performing as well as it should but we need to realise we are still building its a young team and they will grow to become a great team. I have faith in Rogers.

Who has mentioned any of those players? The only real concern flagged is regarding Sahko.

Mentioning Origi is somewhat moot too given the club loaned him out immediately in order to aid his development

Moreno and Countinho has generally spoken about positively. Coutinho has been somewhat off the boil since he got his call up but has impressed again in his past 2/3 appearances.

Agent Coulson · 26-10-2014 01:51PM

If Sturridge comes back fully fit and ready to go and doesn't score in his first few games back where does the manager, team and fans go from there?

It seems to me right now that from what I can see is a lot of hopes are being pinned on Sturidge's return.

Does that mean we are again a one man team???

razorblunt · 26-10-2014 01:52PM

Gbear wrote: »

There was a lot of hit and hope sorts of signings under Houllier. Cheyrou, LeTallec, Pongolle and the likes were nobodies as far as I remember

In fairness Pongolle and Le Tallec were more than hit and hopes given their display in underage tournaments. Can't fault buying the likes of those.

5live · 26-10-2014 01:52PM

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Responses from a critical mass of frequent posters on this thread to their posts are prejudiced. No matter what point the guys make, in whatever style, the core of their point is lost immediately as someone jumps on them - very much attacking the poster.

The guys have been consistently posting on this thread years now - as I have been. The jibes fired in Alan's direction now actually give me a chuckle as he used to be accused of the complete opposite when he first joined the forum - I remember PM'ing him at the time asking him to tone down the positive bias towards everything Liverpool.

In terms of the whole 'retarded' stuff. I won't comment as I have used the term myself to describe view on here :P

In fairness to the guys. Both has come out and said that they were wrong about BR. That is a fairly bold thing to do when you are being shouted down every other post.

The core of what they are saying is correct through. It can be contested somewhat but the dismissals raise serious questions about the appetite for impartial analysis on this thread.

The core of what they are saying in an opinion, some agree some disagree.

What gets on my goat is the whole certainty of their opinion. Not a sign of an 'imo' to be seen anywhere, just 'deluded' and 'retarded' accusations thrown when someone doesn't agree with their opinion. The prejudice shown by those with differing opinions is a reflection of the prejudice shown by the two boys in framing their posts in the first place, imo.

Anyway, i'm leaving it at that. Both side can look at their posts as there is enough blame in this issue to share around:)

J Mysterio · 26-10-2014 01:53PM

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Who has mentioned any of those players? The only real concern flagged is regarding Sahko.

Mentioning Origi is somewhat moot too given the club loaned him out immediately in order to aid his development

Moreno and Countinho has generally spoken about positively. Coutinho has been somewhat off the boil since he got his call up but has impressed again in his past 2/3 appearances.

Origi was not loaned out to 'aid his development'. He was loaned out because Lille refused to do business otherwise.

jesus_thats_gre · 26-10-2014 02:04PM

J Mysterio wrote: »

Origi was not loaned out to 'aid his development'. He was loaned out because Lille refused to do business otherwise.

I stand corrected. Do you think he would have made big difference to our performance in the past month or so?

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Note in OP, 1/09

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