No difference between Christian and Muslim Fundamentalists.

JuliusCaesar · 11-10-2014 9:13am #1

Here

Interesting point that European Muslims tend to be more fundy than US Muslims due to their lower socio-economic status - which would imply that we as a society should try harder to help educate and integrate our immigrants.

On a side note, I'm totally opposed to Direct Provision as I can't think of a better way of ensuring psychological torture and ensuring the creation of a resentful underclass.

wretcheddomain · 11-10-2014 12:18pm

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Interesting point that European Muslims tend to be more fundy than US Muslims due to their lower socio-economic status - which would imply that we as a society should try harder to help educate and integrate our immigrants.

So basically you're saying it's our fault?

pH · 11-10-2014 12:53pm

Glasgow airport attack 2007 - those known to (or strongly suspected) be involved:

Dr. Bilal Abdullah, 27, born in England, and moved to Iraq as a child.[54] Alleged attacker, arrested immediately at Glasgow International Airport. Convicted at of conspiracy to murder, and sentenced to life imprisonment
Kafeel Ahmed, aka Khalid Ahmed,[55] born in India, studying for a PhD in engineering. Taken to hospital after the attack and treated for burns over 90% of his body surface.[56] Died from his injuries, 2 August 2007.[14]
Dr. Mohammed Asha, 26, from Jordan.[54] Arrested on the M6 motorway.[56] Later found not guilty of conspiracy to murder and conspiracy to cause explosions, currently fighting deportation.[57]
Marwah Dana Asha, 27, from Jordan. Wife of Mohammed Asha and arrested with him on the M6 motorway.[56] Was later released without charge.[58]
Dr. Sabeel Ahmed, 26, born in India. Arrested in Liverpool. A doctor who works at Halton Hospital in Cheshire. Brother of Kafeel Ahmed.[56]
Dr. Mohamed Haneef, 27, from India.[57][59] Detained at Brisbane Airport, Australia[56] and later charged with recklessly supporting a terrorist organisation, charges which have now been dropped. Currently appealing cancellation of his work visa by the Australian government. Second cousin of Kafeel and Sabeel Ahmed.
Unnamed 28-year-old Saudi man, arrested in Houston, Renfrewshire. Reported to be a medical student working at Royal Alexandra Hospital.[56] Released without charge.[60]
Unnamed 25-year-old Saudi man, arrested in Houston along with unnamed 28-year-old. Also reported to be a medical student at the RAH.[56] Released without charge.

Read more about low socio-economic status people here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Glasgow_International_Airport_attack

Vinnie L · 12-10-2014 8:31pm

What exactly is a fundamentalist anyway ?
I think the origional meaning, if there ever was one, has lost all meaning at this stage.

recedite · 12-10-2014 9:25pm

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

their lower socio-economic status

The average Irish person is probably most likely to meet a muslim when they finally get to see the doctor in the local hospital.

Any proof that European muslims are more fundamentalist than, say, middle eastern ones?
If its true, its more likely to be because they want to accentuate the attachment to their ancestral country. I'm sure we all know Irish people who became markedly more nationalistic and discovered a new interest in trad music after they emigrated.

Brown Bomber · 13-10-2014 11:30am

pH wrote: »

Glasgow airport attack 2007 - those known to (or strongly suspected) be involved:

Dr. Bilal Abdullah, 27, born in England, and moved to Iraq as a child.[54] Alleged attacker, arrested immediately at Glasgow International Airport. Convicted at of conspiracy to murder, and sentenced to life imprisonment
Kafeel Ahmed, aka Khalid Ahmed,[55] born in India, studying for a PhD in engineering. Taken to hospital after the attack and treated for burns over 90% of his body surface.[56] Died from his injuries, 2 August 2007.[14]
Dr. Mohammed Asha, 26, from Jordan.[54] Arrested on the M6 motorway.[56] Later found not guilty of conspiracy to murder and conspiracy to cause explosions, currently fighting deportation.[57]
Marwah Dana Asha, 27, from Jordan. Wife of Mohammed Asha and arrested with him on the M6 motorway.[56] Was later released without charge.[58]
Dr. Sabeel Ahmed, 26, born in India. Arrested in Liverpool. A doctor who works at Halton Hospital in Cheshire. Brother of Kafeel Ahmed.[56]
Dr. Mohamed Haneef, 27, from India.[57][59] Detained at Brisbane Airport, Australia[56] and later charged with recklessly supporting a terrorist organisation, charges which have now been dropped. Currently appealing cancellation of his work visa by the Australian government. Second cousin of Kafeel and Sabeel Ahmed.
Unnamed 28-year-old Saudi man, arrested in Houston, Renfrewshire. Reported to be a medical student working at Royal Alexandra Hospital.[56] Released without charge.[60]
Unnamed 25-year-old Saudi man, arrested in Houston along with unnamed 28-year-old. Also reported to be a medical student at the RAH.[56] Released without charge.

Read more about low socio-economic status people here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Glasgow_International_Airport_attack

Could you please clarify if you were intentionally misleading or you simply were unable to understand the above which you posted?

At the very least can you clarify who these people who have been cleared without any charge are now "suspected by"? Beyond you, of course.

Brown Bomber · 13-10-2014 11:32am

wretcheddomain wrote: »

So basically you're saying it's our fault?

So religious fundamentalism comes down to it being "our" fault or their (exotic, oriental, backward immigrants) fault? It couldn't possibly be more nuanced than this?

Mr. CooL ICE · 13-10-2014 1:49pm

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Could you please clarify if you were intentionally misleading or you simply were unable to understand the above which you posted?

At the very least can you clarify who these people who have been cleared without any charge are now "suspected by"? Beyond you, of course.

Why would they arrest them if they weren't suspects?

Brown Bomber · 13-10-2014 1:52pm

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

Why would they arrest them if they weren't suspects?

Can you explain the difference between "weren't" and "aren't". By your logic the Guildford and still "kinda" guilty...

Mr. CooL ICE · 13-10-2014 1:57pm

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Can you explain the difference between "weren't" and "aren't". By your logic the Guildford and still "kinda" guilty...

They were suspected, found not guilty and released. They were suspects. Now, they aren't suspects.

Yet again, you are purposely trying to be offended by something and looking for an argument when there isn't any room for one. I'm outta here.

Brown Bomber · 13-10-2014 2:12pm

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

Now, they aren't suspects.
.

Good man.

Now read your statement above and with that in mind read the statement I was responding to "those known to (or strongly suspected) be involved:"and see if the penny drops...

Mr. CooL ICE · 13-10-2014 2:20pm

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Good man.

Now read your statement above and with that in mind read the statement I was responding to "those known to (or strongly suspected) be involved:"and see if the penny drops...

Wait - you're a grammar nazi now? At least you're branching out.

robindch · 13-10-2014 3:21pm

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Good man.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Could you please clarify if you were intentionally misleading or you simply were unable to understand the above which you posted? [...] Beyond you, of course.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

[...] (exotic, oriental, backward immigrants) [...]

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

Wait - you're a grammar nazi now? At least you're branching out.

Nicolas - no need for the grammar nazi comment.

BB - can you please try to discuss something calmly for a change?

Brown Bomber · 13-10-2014 3:31pm

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

Wait - you're a grammar nazi now? At least you're branching out.

It has nothing to do with grammar and has everything to do with the concept of innocent until proven guilty; a pillar of any civilised society. Most of those people listed didn't even have a case to answer.

Mr. CooL ICE · 13-10-2014 4:12pm

I don't know where the confusion lies.

Your issue originally seemed to be with the wording of pH's statement, but now you are talking about being innocent until proven guilty (which from what I can see, is what happened). Perhaps you can elaborate a bit.

Brown Bomber · 13-10-2014 4:32pm

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

I don't know where the confusion lies.

Your issue originally seemed to be with the wording of pH's statement, but now you are talking about being innocent until proven guilty (which from what I can see, is what happened). Perhaps you can elaborate a bit.

Sure. PH accused People Who have Been found not guilty and cleared of all charges of involvement in attempted murder. Obviously These are false allegations against what are by Any reasonable and civilised definition innocent People. I wanted them to clarify whether this was a genuine mistake or an intentional effort to mislead.

Mr. CooL ICE · 13-10-2014 4:39pm

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Sure. PH accused People Who have Been found not guilty and cleared of all charges of involvement in attempted murder. Obviously These are false allegations against what are by Any reasonable and civilised definition innocent People. I wanted them to clarify whether this was a genuine mistake or an intentional effort to mislead.

pH didn't accuse anybody of anything. You are just trying to put words in his mouth.

If you want to be pedantic about his statement which you highlighted in red, then it is grammatically incorrect and could be interpreted either way. From what I can tell, pH isn't the one assuming anybody of being guilty until proven innocent. It's you.

Brown Bomber · 13-10-2014 4:47pm

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

pH didn't accuse anybody of anything. You are just trying to put words in his mouth.

If you want to be pedantic about his statement which you highlighted in red, then it is grammatically incorrect and could be interpreted either way. From what I can tell, pH isn't the one assuming anybody of being guilty until proven innocent. It's you.

But it cannot be interpreted either Way. They gave a list of People and made the claim that they ARE involved or suspected of being involved in a specific terrorist attack. This is completely false. The majority of those lister are NOT suspected at all. IF they are and I am wrong then WHo is it that is doing the suspecting and on what grounds?

weisses · 14-10-2014 10:26pm

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

pH didn't accuse anybody of anything. You are just trying to put words in his mouth.

Of course he didn't ..

Posting a bunch of names without adding the proper context in a Muslim/christian fundamentalist thread is how you have a discussion?? don't think so.

jaffusmax · 16-10-2014 2:50pm

The only difference between a Muslim and a Christian fundamentalist is that whichever one feels more threatened then begins to act more illogically and with more savagery!

jank · 18-10-2014 2:44am

No difference? Tell that to the 3000 people slaughtered at 9/11.

Brown Bomber · 18-10-2014 3:16pm

jank wrote: »

No difference? Tell that to the 3000 people slaughtered at 9/11.

or the million in Iraq and Afghanistan.

"President Bush said to all of us: 'I am driven with a mission from God'. God would tell me, 'George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did. And then God would tell me 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq'. And I did."
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usa

shruikan2553 · 19-10-2014 12:48am

The entire religions are pretty much the same, just a different book. Reminds me of this picture

jank wrote: »

No difference? Tell that to the 3000 people slaughtered at 9/11.

Because Christians have never done anything to kill others.

jaffusmax · 19-10-2014 8:56am

shruikan2553 wrote: »

The entire religions are pretty much the same, just a different book. Reminds me of this picture

Because Christians have never done anything to kill others.

I wonder what do female suicide bombers get rewarded in the afterlife? 72 Virgin Men?

As for the lady on the left I wonder if she has read past the Introduction page of the book she is holding!

fisgon · 19-10-2014 9:52am

There is little difference between Christian and Muslim fundamentalists in terms of mindset.

It is exactly the same way of looking at the world, based on ignorance, insecurity, a hatred of "the other", a fear of modernity, a fear and hatred of sexuality and other basic elements of humanity, and a desire to impose your doctrine on society as a whole. Oh yeah, an insistence on being absolutely right, despite the utter lack of evidence for this claim.

The main difference is that Christian fundies exist mainly in Western countries, where there is at least some tradition of secularism, where there is separation of church and state, and where we have had an Enlightenment to dilute the crazier elements of religion. The Muslim world does not really have any tradition of secularism, and so Islam is allowed to grow unchecked. Secularism is the only thing that can keep the inevitable violence and oppression of religion in check.

jank · 19-10-2014 2:30pm

shruikan2553 wrote: »

The entire religions are pretty much the same, just a different book. Reminds me of this picture

Because Christians have never done anything to kill others.

Did the lady on the right blow themselves up in a civilian area? If not, then tis not the same thing.

jank · 19-10-2014 2:40pm

Brown Bomber wrote: »

or the million in Iraq and Afghanistan.

That quote you linked has been debunked.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/abbas-denies-bushs-mission-from-god-remark/2005/10/08/1128563027485.html

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/07/usa.jamessturcke

DarkyHughes · 19-10-2014 4:34pm

jank wrote: »

No difference? Tell that to the 3000 people slaughtered at 9/11.

Or the 1000 Roman Catholic civilians slaughtered by Protestant fundamentalist Christians in the North of Ireland. For God & Ulster. Oh that's right the Protestants don't have dark skin so their not as bad.

DarkyHughes · 19-10-2014 5:45pm

jank wrote: »

Did the lady on the right blow themselves up in a civilian area? If not, then tis not the same thing.

Your right it's not the same. The suicide bomber murderer dies, the non-suicide bomber gets to live & carry out more murders.

Brown Bomber · 19-10-2014 7:26pm

jank wrote: »

That quote you linked has been debunked.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/abbas-denies-bushs-mission-from-god-remark/2005/10/08/1128563027485.html

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/07/usa.jamessturcke

Thanks for the clarification.

hfallada · 19-10-2014 7:34pm

I think the different between Muslim and Christian Fundamentalists is that Christian Fundamentalists will kill their own people eg Americans killing other Americans. The best example is Christians who see that they are doing "gods work", by blowing up abortion clinics and murdering abortion doctors. They arent treated in extremist camps in the middle east. They teach themselves. They also are a higher risk,as they arent being monitored by the US Government. But probably the most frightening is that they act usually solely as one person. They arent a group like most Muslim Fundamentalists.

But Christian Fundamentalists in the US are powerful lobbyist. Their voices are heard and policies are put into law which follow that. Where as Muslim Fundamentalists are often ignored by Government in their home country

No difference between Christian and Muslim Fundamentalists.

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