Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - See Mod Warning in OP, 09/11

akelly02 · 17-10-2014 11:28AM

bangkok wrote: »

I don't think you will see carrick doing much of that to be honest. He is one of our players that passes forward most of the time and the stats are there to prove it

That is definately not true, our biggest culprit alongside TC23

Pro. F · 17-10-2014 11:29AM

keane2097 wrote: »

There aren't really any midfields that don't struggle when opposition press them in a concerted way high up the pitch.

There are plenty who can overcome it and help their teams play out from the back even when being pressed. Carrick definitely isn't able to and Blind looks like he's the same.

kryogen · 17-10-2014 11:31AM

Pro. F wrote: »

Pity we spent all that money and didn't buy a central midfielder who could have been clearly better than Carrick, sting removal and all.

From listening to Van Gaal he feels Carrick is an important player for the club and was very upset to be without him to injury...I like our midfield the way it is shaping up, what Carrick can bring to the party is experience at seeing games out which we have sorely been lacking. Hopefully he will provide the calming influence, Van Gaal has often had limited players, like Gustavo and Van Bommel that he rates highly for certain roles

My take on it is that he understands, naturally, all the problems in the team are not going to be solved with one window, or player, and I think he has his eye on Strootman simply because he seems to rate him so highly but needs to see how he returns from his injury I guess. The options of Hererra, Blind, Di Maria, Carrick, Fellaini etc are maybe enough in his mind, enough combinations there for him to work with until he makes a decision regarding Strootman or whether we will have to go for someone else?

Obviously the midfield has not been solved, and was not going to be in one window, but it is a damn sight better then it has been for a while and I am happy with the progress, the more the likes of Blind and Hererra play together and play for the club the better they should get (in theory!) and a midfield that is greater then the sum of its parts with a strong understanding will always be important to a team looking to challenge at the highest levels of the game.

Carrick is not a guaranteed first choice anymore, that is a good thing isn't it? He may not have been replaced like for like, though you could argue Blind will grow into that role given time, but the midfield itself has improved over the summer and as long as improvements continue to be made there I will be happy. Van Gaal has said himself many times, he is not a short term coach, he is always thinking long term and I like what he has done so far so am more then happy to see what he has in mind for the next year or so also. Phasing out Carrick and adding more quality to compliment the players already brought in and emerging is an exciting prospect.

duffman13 · 17-10-2014 11:31AM

It is a big possibility that Carrick and Blind could be player together for the Chelsea game, potentially with Herrera, with Di Maria on one wing and Rooney on the other. I think that set up gives us a fighting chance against Chelsea to nick something.

Actually is Rooney still suspended for Chelsea?

kryogen · 17-10-2014 11:33AM

akelly02 wrote: »

Ok, Keep a good eye on Carricks 'Positioning' etc over the next few months, its nowhere near the level of Blind, he doesnt tackle at all, never mind as well as Blind, and he's as slow as the Titanic. IMO there isnt one thing Carrick can do that Blind cant do better.

He reads the game better, he shields the back four better. Two things off the top of my head

SherlockWatson · 17-10-2014 11:37AM

akelly02 wrote: »

Ok, Keep a good eye on Carricks 'Positioning' etc over the next few months, its nowhere near the level of Blind, he doesnt tackle at all, never mind as well as Blind, and he's as slow as the Titanic. IMO there isnt one thing Carrick can do that Blind cant do better.

Clueless, Carrick is an excellent reader of the game and his positioning is fantastic, criminally underrated by United fans.

bangkok · 17-10-2014 11:37AM

akelly02 wrote: »

Ok, Keep a good eye on Carricks 'Positioning' etc over the next few months, its nowhere near the level of Blind, he doesnt tackle at all, never mind as well as Blind, and he's as slow as the Titanic. IMO there isnt one thing Carrick can do that Blind cant do better.

id say you have seen blind play a total of 5-6 full games and yet you think carrick isn't near his "standard"

to say carrick doesn't tackle I presume you are taking the p1ss or have barely seen him play?

bangkok · 17-10-2014 11:39AM

http://therepublikofmancunia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Carrick-stats-comparison1.jpg

homerjay2005 · 17-10-2014 11:52AM

keane2097 wrote: »

There aren't really any midfields that don't struggle when opposition press them in a concerted way high up the pitch.

exactly and this is something that a huge portion of football fans and managers, fail to realise. looks at the jobs Welbeck and Park did for example against Madrid and Milan in the champions league games.

give a top player space and they will wreck havoc but if you have a player who is disciplined and fit enough to get close to them, there is not alot they can do. a huge part of why we were so poor last season, is that teams sat back and left our midfield have the ball, but mostly around half way. our midfield then had no impact on the game further up the pitch, as they didnt have the space (or ability) to break through the oppositions pressing game.

its a very simple tactic in football that constantly gets overlooked.

Pro. F · 17-10-2014 11:57AM

kryogen wrote: »

From listening to Van Gaal he feels Carrick is an important player for the club and was very upset to be without him to injury...I like our midfield the way it is shaping up, what Carrick can bring to the party is experience at seeing games out which we have sorely been lacking. Hopefully he will provide the calming influence, Van Gaal has often had limited players, like Gustavo and Van Bommel that he rates highly for certain roles

My take on it is that he understands, naturally, all the problems in the team are not going to be solved with one window, or player, and I think he has his eye on Strootman simply because he seems to rate him so highly but needs to see how he returns from his injury I guess. The options of Hererra, Blind, Di Maria, Carrick, Fellaini etc are maybe enough in his mind, enough combinations there for him to work with until he makes a decision regarding Strootman or whether we will have to go for someone else?

Obviously the midfield has not been solved, and was not going to be in one window, but it is a damn sight better then it has been for a while and I am happy with the progress, the more the likes of Blind and Hererra play together and play for the club the better they should get (in theory!) and a midfield that is greater then the sum of its parts with a strong understanding will always be important to a team looking to challenge at the highest levels of the game.

Carrick is not a guaranteed first choice anymore, that is a good thing isn't it? He may not have been replaced like for like, though you could argue Blind will grow into that role given time, but the midfield itself has improved over the summer and as long as improvements continue to be made there I will be happy. Van Gaal has said himself many times, he is not a short term coach, he is always thinking long term and I like what he has done so far so am more then happy to see what he has in mind for the next year or so also. Phasing out Carrick and adding more quality to compliment the players already brought in and emerging is an exciting prospect.

Van Gaal's previous use of players like Gustavo and Van Bommel does indicate that he likes these sorts of do-a-job CMs all right. Blind looks like another one in the mold and Carrick wrote the book on it. Even Strootman - who has some other amazing additional skills, like his shooting and athleticism - is lacking when it comes to the bread-and-butter close control and short passing CM job, but that wouldn't stop LVG loving him.

Maybe Van Gaal feels he needs CMs with these defensive qualities to implement a particular game plan, like a high pressing game or something. Or maybe he ends up needing them because he has problems organising defences for the highest level.

I'm certainly willing to be patient, but the manager still has it all to prove at the club. He has spent shît loads of money and talked a lot. Currently the midfield and defence aren't nearly as effective as they were during Fergie's last season, and I wouldn't be holding up anybody - the new manager or the new DCM - for praise for having fixed anything yet.

advertsfox · 17-10-2014 12:05PM

bangkok wrote: »

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/22081499

Good stats posted on the BBC:

Spazdarn · 17-10-2014 12:13PM

kryogen wrote: »

He reads the game better, he shields the back four better. Two things off the top of my head

Carrick was the shield in front of the defence last season, how did that go?

I'm not ready to claim Blind is a better player, as we don't have enough examples to really judge, but he's more mobile, he's quicker to the tackle, and he's not as prone to passing backwards and sideways when under pressure.

No benefit in passing it backwards, when we've a defence that poor.

Pro. F · 17-10-2014 12:20PM

Spazdarn wrote: »

Carrick was the shield in front of the defence last season, how did that go?

United had the fifth best record in the league for goals conceded, one place better than the previous season. Of all the things you could criticise Carrick for, protecting the back four is definitely not one.

Spazdarn · 17-10-2014 12:25PM

Pro. F wrote: »

United had the fifth best record in the league for goals conceded, one place better than the previous season. Of all the things you could criticise Carrick for, protecting the back four is definitely not one.

Fair point,

But the underlying point still stands, Carrick should be phased out, considering his age. Any remnants of that underperforming midfield (I include Fletcher and Anderson too) need to be marginalized and replaced with better quality players. We need more than players who do a job, Carrick does have qualities to offer. I just want our midfielders to offer more.

Blind is young and new to the team, so you can't really compare the two yet.

Pro. F · 17-10-2014 12:30PM

Spazdarn wrote: »

Fair point,

But the underlying point still stands, Carrick should be phased out, considering his age. Any remnants of that underperforming midfield (I include Fletcher and Anderson too) need to be marginalized and replaced with better quality players. We need more than players who do a job, Carrick does have qualities to offer. I just want our midfielders to offer more.

Blind is young and new to the team, so you can't really compare the two yet.

Blind has been meh so far. He might go on to prove himself, but you are jumping the gun saying that he's so much better than Carrick when in possession. He hasn't shown that at all yet.

Nolars · 17-10-2014 12:33PM

This will prob be Carricks last season hes getting on now and LVG will bring in Strootman or someone so his playing time will be very limited.

Spazdarn · 17-10-2014 12:33PM

Pro. F wrote: »

Blind has been meh so far. He might go on to prove himself, but you are jumping the gun saying that he's so much better than Carrick when in possession. He hasn't shown that at all yet.

I don't really agree I've been happy enough with how he has performed to be honest.

If the team is getting overrun, it's not the responsibility of only Blind to alleviate that. The rest of the team have to put in a shift too.

Pro. F · 17-10-2014 12:46PM

Spazdarn wrote: »

I don't really agree I've been happy enough with how he has performed to be honest.

If the team is getting overrun, it's not the responsibility of only Blind to alleviate that. The rest of the team have to put in a shift too.

It's not only one player's responsibility indeed. I would say that Hererra needs to become more disciplined in his use of the ball too. But Blind is clearly the weakest link in that midfield when the team is in possession and he has shown no signs of being better than Carrick in that regard.

advertsfox · 17-10-2014 12:55PM

Fellaini forgot to take off his Juan Mata backpack in training today :P

10484579_10152513233372746_1473806461501378717_n.jpg?oh=e167a2445878a7a59cdb59fe94eed088&oe=54EE5122

10484579_10152513233372746_1473806461501378717_n.jpg?oh=e167a2445878a7a59cdb59fe94eed088&oe=54EE5122

TheDoc · 17-10-2014 12:58PM

I personally like Blind. And think he does nice things.

He seems a very calm prescense and from a lot of good things we do it starts with him. He's played a lot of direct balls into the final third accurately and bar some hiccups I thought he has done well.

He's also done well in his defensive duties and seems to sniff out danger via interceptions pretty well.

I think he will kick on as he gets more games. He's not a physical presence but more of a game reader and that takes some games to understand the flow of how things work in a new league. I'd be pretty dissapointed to be honest seeing him being removed for Carrick. I think our Midfield seems more fluid and dynamic with him at the base.

RayCun · 17-10-2014 01:01PM

Spazdarn wrote: »

If the team is getting overrun, it's not the responsibility of only Blind to alleviate that. The rest of the team have to put in a shift too.

Which is also true of Carrick when he was playing that same position

Spazdarn · 17-10-2014 01:02PM

TheDoc wrote: »

I personally like Blind. And think he does nice things.

He seems a very calm prescense and from a lot of good things we do it starts with him. He's played a lot of direct balls into the final third accurately and bar some hiccups I thought he has done well.

He's also done well in his defensive duties and seems to sniff out danger via interceptions pretty well.

I think he will kick on as he gets more games. He's not a physical presence but more of a game reader and that takes some games to understand the flow of how things work in a new league. I'd be pretty dissapointed to be honest seeing him being removed for Carrick. I think our Midfield seems more fluid and dynamic with him at the base.

Yeah we're transitioning between defence and attack much quicker, our attacking play was dire last season, really laboured...

Spazdarn · 17-10-2014 01:04PM

RayCun wrote: »

Which is also true of Carrick when he was playing that same position

Carrick would have had better defenders behind him.

Mitch Connor · 17-10-2014 01:05PM

TheDoc wrote: »

I think our Midfield seems more fluid and dynamic with him at the base.

Possibly this is the case - but there is also a good chance having Di Maria and Herrera to pass to (or Di Maria and... err... Valencia) is making it more mobile. Maybe the same formation with Fellaini and Cleverley as the other two midfielders would see it as stagnant as we saw last season with Carrick.

Our full backs are also much more part of the attack than they were under Moyes, so that will aid the midfield distribution and mobility.

A lot of changes in both tactics and personel since Carrick was in our midfield, so I think it would be very unfair to say the improvements are down to him being replaced - without having seen him have a proper shot in the same circumstances as Blind.

I think Moyes' was incredibly defensive in his style last season, which inhibited Carrick, Cleverley, Rafael and Evra, as well as others. I'd like to see how Carrick does with better players and a more offensive mindset to the side.

RayCun · 17-10-2014 01:09PM

Spazdarn wrote: »

Carrick would have had better defenders behind him.

True, which explains why there weren't too many goals conceded.
But (for all that I like Blind) he would have been painfully exposed playing regularly alongside Cleverley and Fellaini, and Carrick would have looked much better last year playing with Di Maria and Herrera.

Billy86 · 17-10-2014 01:17PM

TheDoc wrote: »

I'd be pretty dissapointed to be honest seeing him being removed for Carrick. I think our Midfield seems more fluid and dynamic with him at the base.

To be fair though... Herrera/Di Maria vs Fletcher/Anderson/Fellaini.

irishfeen · 17-10-2014 03:01PM

https://twitter.com/ManUtd/status/523126326119899136

Some good news!

Whatsisname · 17-10-2014 03:12PM

Moyes has given Dan Roan of the BBC an interview.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/29662220

MagicIRL · 17-10-2014 03:14PM

Top professional. Didn't like his style of play at United but as a man I've nothing bad to say about him. Would love to see him return to the game.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29662220

TheDoc · 17-10-2014 03:55PM

If anything has come out of the star of LVG reign is that probably Moyes has been a little vindicated and rightly so.

He went into the club and the initial delusion was he was provided a top team that would be competitive for years.

Its worth remembering that everytime. As stated by Gill before Moyes was announced...and then Woodward in his board address around January.

The scramble for players last summer was because the club did not expect to have to make signings and Moyes indicated the squad was not first for purpose.

I think its really important to remember that. CB,LB,DM,Striker ,CM. What Moyes indicated to the club needed sorting out.

He has a lot of ready made excuses to be fair to him he's kept quiet and gone about his business. A lot of managers would be in the papers every week making excuses etc. Moyes has been pretty amicable in what was IMO a pretty rubbish way we went about sacking him...

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - See Mod Warning in OP, 09/11

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