Ebola virus outbreak

WakeUp · 15-10-2014 03:44PM

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

Oh come on! The thing is though, that scientists have this habit of publishing all their work in pesky journals, and encouraging the information they've discovered to being read far and wide. So unless you think it's all part of a massive CT involving the scientific community...

what do you mean come on. its only a question. are governments capable of telling lies be it intentionally or not. Im not say they are in this instance. Im just asking are they capable of such a thing. Ive never once stated this was a "conspiracy".

Peist2007 · 15-10-2014 03:44PM

Canis Lupus wrote: »

*whispers* because I see so many of your posts are in the CT forum and I can't be bothered reading posts about government conspiracies.

How narrow minded and dismissive. I suppose you scoffed at those that thought the American govt were spying on everyone and told them "you couldnt be bothered with that". Until of course it was reported on your tv and you believed it then :rolleyes:

ceadaoin. · 15-10-2014 03:45PM

The second person diagnosed with ebola took a flight the day before being diagnosed and passengers on that flight have been asked to contact the CDC. Hopefully the person wasn't symptomatic on the flight, otherwise this could get very bad.

A second Dallas health-care worker has tested positive for Ebola, officials said Wednesday, as they also asked 132 people who flew with that infected woman on a Frontier Airlines flight from Cleveland to Dallas on Monday to call the federal Centers for Disease Control.

Officials also warned that additional cases of the deadly virus at the Dallas hospital where the woman worked is "a very real possibility."

"We have contingencies for more," said Dallas County Judge Clay Jenkins during a briefing on the latest case, of a female employee of Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital who cared for Ebola patient Thomas Eric Duncan.

Robert Alexander | Getty Images
Frontier Airlines planes.
Jenkins said the second infected woman, who was not identified by name or job title, was isolated within 90 minutes of reporting a fever Tuesday. She is the third person diagnosed in the U.S. with Ebola, which is currently epidemic in three West African countries.

The CDC hours later revealed that the newly infected woman had flown on Monday on Frontier Airlines Flight No.1143 from Cleveland to Dallas/Fort Worth. The CDC asked all passengers aboard that flight to call 1-800-232-4632. Frontier Airlines, in its own statement, said passengers who also traveled with the woman on Flight 1142 on Friday from Dallas/Fort Worth to Cleveland should also contact CDC at the same phone number.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102078863

WakeUp · 15-10-2014 03:45PM

Peist2007 wrote: »

How narrow minded and dismissive. I suppose you scoffed at those that thought the American govt were spying on everyone and told them "you couldnt be bothered with that". Until of course it was reported on your tv and you believed it then :rolleyes:

is all good Peist Canus has this one all worked out. he is on it. nothing to see here.

ProfessorPlum · 15-10-2014 03:46PM

WakeUp wrote: »

what do you mean come on. its only a question. are governments capable of telling lies be it intentionally or not. Im not say they are in this instance. Im just asking are they capable of such a thing. Ive never once stated this was a "conspiracy".

Sorry - my mistake. You randomly asked a question about weather governments could lie in this thread, but you're asking weather they are in this instance. Ok. gottcha.

Canis Lupus · 15-10-2014 03:46PM

Peist2007 wrote: »

Witholding information and deliberately misinforming are two completely separate things

No.... no it's not unless you're trying to suggest witholding information is not a deliberate act???

WakeUp wrote: »

ah ok, so its back to your default CT ad hominem position. you have it all figured out dont you. good stuff.

Yah, thanks

josip · 15-10-2014 03:46PM

The latest carrier in the US flew on a plane with 132 people while infected.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-29632433
(Not sure if this has already been posted, I read the previous 2 pages of squabbling and didn't see anything)

Edit: and while I was reading ceadoin posted...

WakeUp · 15-10-2014 03:48PM

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

Sorry - my mistake. You randomly asked a question about weather governments could lie in this thread, but you're asking weather they are in this instance. Ok. gottcha.

thats ok Plum no need to apologise but thanks for doing so. all I was asking are they capable of such a thing without stating that they are. nothing more.

ProfessorPlum · 15-10-2014 03:52PM

WakeUp wrote: »

thats ok Plum no need to apologise but thanks for doing so. all I was asking are they capable of such a thing without stating that they are. nothing more.

That's grand. But do you see how implausible it is that governments have orchestrated a campaign of misinformation regarding the spread of ebola, given almost everything we know about it had been gained by researchers and widely published. Any gaps or errors in our knowledge at this point are due to our lack of experience of this disease, and not a campaign of misinformation.

I am pie · 15-10-2014 03:53PM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

The second person diagnosed with ebola took a flight the day before being diagnosed and passengers on that flight have been asked to contact the CDC. Hopefully the person wasn't symptomatic on the flight, otherwise this could get very bad.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102078863

When do we get to start calling for Texas to have it's borders shut?

Interesting to find out how this person contracted the disease? Whether they were front line nursing staff or not.

I am no expert, evidently enough, but I would hope that nursing staff are at least strongly urged not to travel by plane after treating ebola victims. Seems to be a sane enough request.

Perhaps they were cleaning staff or involved with waste disposal. Either way, really need to tighten up on those protocols it would seem.

wexie · 15-10-2014 03:59PM

I am pie wrote: »

When do we get to start calling for Texas to have it's borders shut?

Plenty of people been calling for Texas to have it's borders shut for years**, I don't think this will make much of a difference.

**both in and outside Texas, for various reasons.

WakeUp · 15-10-2014 04:02PM

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

That's grand. But do you see how implausible it is that governments have orchestrated a campaign of misinformation regarding the spread of ebola, given almost everything we know about it had been gained by researchers and widely published. Any gaps or errors in our knowledge at this point are due to our lack of experience of this disease, and not a campaign of misinformation.

I dont think governments fully understand this outbreak yet or are completely sure what is going on. so I would agree in what you are saying about a lack of knowledge of the situation as things stand.

littlemac1980 · 15-10-2014 04:02PM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

The second person diagnosed with ebola took a flight the day before being diagnosed and passengers on that flight have been asked to contact the CDC. Hopefully the person wasn't symptomatic on the flight, otherwise this could get very bad.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102078863

The reports suggest that the person wasn't symptomatic at the time, but you'd have to be genuinely concerned, and wonder were there other symptoms present before the fever that caused the person to be admitted the day after they flew from Ohio.

So much for monitoring those who had contact with or treated Mr. Duncan. This particular person was obviously not so concerned and flew right across the country within the incubation period.

It's all very messy! Very very messy indeed.

EDit · 15-10-2014 04:04PM

Tbh, this is the real tester for how contagious this disease is. So far, the transmission appears to be exclusively from highly symptomatic patients (ie, those excreting copious amounts of virus-laden vomit and faeces) to those caring for them (who, despite being in protective gear are literally swimming in this vomit and faeces). Now we have an apparently asymptomatic patient sitting on a plane with over 100 other folks. If someone else gets it under those circumstances, the authorities will have no choice but to consider severe travel restrictions.

wexie · 15-10-2014 04:08PM

EDit wrote: »

If someone else gets it under those circumstances, the authorities will have no choice but to consider severe travel restrictions.

At which stage I (in my most humble opinion) predict widespread panic and plenty of self righteous redneck preppers on Yootoob saying they had it right all along y'all.

EDit · 15-10-2014 04:13PM

wexie wrote: »

At which stage I (in my most humble opinion) predict widespread panic and plenty of self righteous redneck preppers on Yootoob saying they had it right all along y'all.

True. I'm not religious at all, but I am praying to all gods and false idols that no-one else on that plane gets it. The panic would be massive.

Peist2007 · 15-10-2014 04:13PM

Canis Lupus wrote: »

No.... no it's not unless you're trying to suggest witholding information is not a deliberate act???

Yah, thanks

Nope they are completely different things. I cannot be arsed teaching you the ins and outs of the english language. Going by your logic people have been deliberately misinformed by every government that ever existed. You'll need to take that to the CT forum

ceadaoin. · 15-10-2014 04:15PM

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

That's grand. But do you see how implausible it is that governments have orchestrated a campaign of misinformation regarding the spread of ebola, given almost everything we know about it had been gained by researchers and widely published. Any gaps or errors in our knowledge at this point are due to our lack of experience of this disease, and not a campaign of misinformation.

I don't think I'd go so far as to say they are orchestrating a campaign of disinformation, but they are certainly downplaying it slightly to avoid causing panic, in my opinion. When the first case was diagnosed in the US, the rhetoric was very much that it is impossible to catch ebola without direct prolonged contact with an infected individual. People thought you practically had to pour ebola vomit into an open wound or kiss a dead body to get it. The only reason it spread in Africa was due to burial practices and poor hygiene conditions etc. Yet, the research about it possibly being transmitted by the aerosol route and by surface contamination was freely available online. Most people don't look up medical papers, they listen to what the news says. I have noticed that now they are saying 'close contact' and touching surfaces may lead to infection which is a bit different from when all this started happening.

Peist2007 · 15-10-2014 04:16PM

wexie wrote: »

At which stage I (in my most humble opinion) predict widespread panic and plenty of self righteous redneck preppers on Yootoob saying they had it right all along y'all.

I would think that a symptomatic person on a plane with 100 people would be expected to spread this disease even with what we know now. Wouldnt mean the thing is gone airborne. Just as highly contagious as people feared

wildefalcon · 15-10-2014 04:17PM

Crane wrote: »

Does anyone have any idea where we might read an intelligent and measured forum discussion of this outbreak? On boards.ie or elsewhere? Every few days (as stated above) the airborne, doomsday etc scenarios get rebooted in this thread, perhaps by people just opportunistically clicking on the thread rather than following it properly. Makes for a pretty frustrating read - neither 'side' (pessimistic vs optimistic outcome of the outbreak) gets a proper airing as a result.

This particular forum is "After Hours", a forum where intelligent and measured discussion is very much frowned upon.

ceadaoin. · 15-10-2014 04:19PM

Peist2007 wrote: »

I would think that a symptomatic person on a plane with 100 people would be expected to spread this disease even with what we know now. Wouldnt mean the thing is gone airborne. Just as highly contagious as people feared

Yes I'd imagine if they vomited or had diarrhea in the plane bathroom it would be pretty contaminated, especially if they didn't wash their hands properly. Anyone using that bathroom would be at risk.

ProfessorPlum · 15-10-2014 04:26PM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I don't think I'd go so far as to say they are orchestrating a campaign of disinformation, but they are certainly downplaying it slightly to avoid causing panic, in my opinion. When the first case was diagnosed in the US, the rhetoric was very much that it is impossible to catch ebola without direct prolonged contact with an infected individual. People thought you practically had to pour ebola vomit into an open wound or kiss a dead body to get it. The only reason it spread in Africa was due to burial practices and poor hygiene conditions etc. Yet, the research about it possibly being transmitted by the aerosol route and by surface contamination was freely available online. Most people don't look up medical papers, they listen to what the news says. I have noticed that now they are saying 'close contact' and touching surfaces may lead to infection which is a bit different from when all this started happening.

But nobody thought that, did they. And any information released by governments has been along the lines of the known research. Of course government are going to try and keep the situation calm and panic free. That's part of good management of the situation.

wexie · 15-10-2014 04:28PM

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

Of course government are going to try and keep the situation calm and panic free. That's part of good management of the situation.

I would imagine it's probably a thin line between supplying enough information to keep the populace well informed and causing an outright panic.

Canis Lupus · 15-10-2014 04:34PM

Peist2007 wrote: »

I would think that a symptomatic person on a plane with 100 people would be expected to spread this disease even with what we know now. Wouldnt mean the thing is gone airborne. Just as highly contagious as people feared

Sounds like it has :pac::pac::pac:

Creative Juices · 15-10-2014 04:38PM

EDit wrote: »

Tbh, this is the real tester for how contagious this disease is. So far, the transmission appears to be exclusively from highly symptomatic patients (ie, those excreting copious amounts of virus-laden vomit and faeces) to those caring for them (who, despite being in protective gear are literally swimming in this vomit and faeces). Now we have an apparently asymptomatic patient sitting on a plane with over 100 other folks. If someone else gets it under those circumstances, the authorities will have no choice but to consider severe travel restrictions.

Great post. I was never too concerned when US/Spanish health care workers were contracting ebola because they were heavily exposed to infected bodily fluids and it was a wake up call on using the correct protocols at all times. I also think those health care workers will get the appropriate and timely treatment and survive for the most part. As you say, if the other scenario presents itself with minimal bodily fluid exposure, things may need to change.

Stheno · 15-10-2014 04:51PM

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us/texas-nurse-with-ebola-took-flight-with-132-on-board-1.1964256

Sounds like it was a bit chaotic when the guy from Liberia was in hospital in Texas, doesn't sound good at all

National Nurses United said the nurses treating him worked for days without proper protective gear and faced constantly changing protocols.

Nurses were forced to use medical tape to secure openings in their flimsy garments, worried that their necks and heads were exposed as they cared for the patient, said Deborah Burger of the union.

She convened a conference call with reporters to relay what she said were concerns raised by nurses at the hospital.

Among the nurses’ allegations was that the Ebola patient’s lab samples were allowed to travel through the hospital’s pneumatic tubes, opening the possibility of contaminating the specimen delivery system.

The nurses also alleged that hazardous waste was allowed to pile up to the ceiling.

littlemac1980 · 15-10-2014 05:01PM

Cork radio - Red fm just reported someone in N. Ireland being tested for Ebola. No other source as yet.

Edit : Radio Kerry website just now reported she tested negative.

LuckyLloyd · 15-10-2014 05:41PM

Obama meeting with his cabinet specifically on Ebola per the New York Times.

Personally think it goes one of two ways from here:

- There is a huge rolling up of the sleeves by the International community culminating in a mass coordinated medical / military effort in West Africa that suppresses the virus effectively over the next six months;
- This thing gets out ahead of the international community and causes very severe consequences globally;

I'm not seeing middle ground.

Stheno · 15-10-2014 05:41PM

I was just reading that the plane the infected nurse was on did an additional three flights before it was taken out and decontaminated

crannglas · 15-10-2014 05:44PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Obama meeting with his cabinet specifically on Ebola per the New York Times.

Personally think it goes one of two ways from here:

- There is a huge rolling up of the sleeves by the International community culminating in a mass coordinated medical / military effort in West Africa that suppresses the virus effectively over the next six months;
- This thing gets out ahead of the international community and causes very severe consequences globally;

I'm not seeing middle ground.

I am thinking world war z here.

Ebola virus outbreak

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