Ebola virus outbreak

ProfessorPlum · 13-10-2014 03:29PM

WakeUp wrote: »

In my opinion nobody should be repatriated if they become infected. its stupid and dangerous and violates all laws of containment. improving their chances of survival doesnt come into it or shouldnt come into it. and if the people themselves request to be brought back I think they are being selfish. when their governments move them back to their countries they are placing the medical teams and anyone else who has to deal with them and wider population in direct danger and risk by doing this. that is morally and ethically wrong. why should they be put at risk? should other people be put in danger to improve their chances. why should other people potentially have to become infected and possibly die to treat them. this is a bio level 4 agent this is different. is that fair. I dont think it is. especially when they dont have the training or the experience in dealing with such things. the response and dealing with this so far has been a shambles. violating laws of containment is playing with fire and this has proven true as we have seen in Spain. if I was the family of that nurse that became infected I would be preparing a lawsuit against the Spanish government for reckless negligence. theres a lesson in this for the Irish government should they have any bright ideas about bringing people back here who may become infected. weve read a lot about the transmission vectors of this virus I think a few more should be added that dont seem to get much mention - human error/dangerous recklessness/outright phuckwittery. stop violating the laws of containment its asking for trouble. moral reasons dont come into it.

I don't disagree with you. There's definitely an argument to be made on both sides - weighing up the improved medical outcome with better care (:eek:) versus the risks of lack of containment. I'm not arguing on either side.

ProfessorPlum · 13-10-2014 03:31PM

Peist2007 wrote: »

Ah, so personal bias then. I have a strong suspicion you still dont understand the point i was trying to make. Say hi to Spring Onion for me

Ok I've done a meta analysis of my posts versus yours. Mine come out waaaay better than yours.:rolleyes:

Peist2007 · 13-10-2014 03:43PM

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

Ok I've done a meta analysis of my posts versus yours. Mine come out waaaay better than yours.:rolleyes:

Sure they do Professor

littlemac1980 · 13-10-2014 04:04PM

US urges other countries to step up to the plate and get involved ASAP.

Seems that there is still a $300 million shortfall in what the UN are looking for at this stage.

http://allafrica.com/stories/201410131465.html

It's John Kerry's statement - there's a certain amount of the typical rhetoric you expect in Political statements, but in this case I think it rings true:

"Providing this money is a critical component of our ability to be able to meet this challenge, and we need people to step up now. Now is the time for action, not words. And frankly, there is not a moment to waste in this effort."

ceadaoin. · 13-10-2014 04:37PM

littlemac1980 wrote: »

Here's an interesting article regarding the Dallas nurse who contracted Ebola:

http://theweek.com/speedreads/index/269775/speedreads-cdcs-protocol-breach-explanation-for-texas-ebola-case-smacks-of-scapegoating-critics-say

http://www.christianpost.com/news/nurses-reject-scapegoat-accusations-after-cdc-head-blames-protocol-breach-for-dallas-nurse-infection-of-ebola-127957/

It appears that there is an amount of "backlash" arising from the conclusion of the CDC - that the nurse must have broken protocol in order for the infection to have occurred, i.e. she is being referred to as a "Scapegoat"

The other possibility - and the one that the CDC don't want to consider is that the protocol that they put in place, was in fact followed, but was in some way defective - meaning that they are to blame for this infection.

The first article mentions that the training may have been insufficient, and that the lack of oversight procedures in relation to the implementation of the safety and containment protocols is something that may have caused this infection.

Dr Frieden has apologized today that his comment appeared to be placing blame on the nurse. He said they are focusing their investigation on the removal of PPE and are now considering spraying people with chlorine or whatever before they remove their suits to decontaminate them. Should they not have been doing that anyway? Seems like it was the protocol not being up to scratch, not a breach that resulted in the nurse becoming sick. Also he said that he 'would not be surprised' if more cases are detected in healthcare workers in the next few days

youtube! · 13-10-2014 04:53PM

How are Thomas Duncan's family doing? I can't quite grasp how the nurse who treated him has contracted the virus but his own family whom he lived with in an apartment don't seem to have picked it up despite the fact that he was very sick? Come to think of it where are his family?

13-10-2014 04:58PM

youtube! wrote: »

How are Thomas Duncan's family doing? I can't quite grasp how the nurse who treated him has contracted the virus but his own family whom he lived with in an apartment don't seem to have picked it up despite the fact that he was very sick? Come to think of it where are his family?

There seems to be a complete media blackout since they were moved to a house by the Judge

youtube! · 13-10-2014 05:09PM

Jake1 wrote: »

There seems to be a complete media blackout since they were moved to a house by the Judge

That's a bit weird is it not?

ceadaoin. · 13-10-2014 05:13PM

youtube! wrote: »

That's a bit weird is it not?

Not really. Would you want the media camped outside your door endlessly speculating on whether you were going to get sick and possibly die? Plus, they have been moved to a large house in a gated community. Got to be safer than them being in a cramped apartment block with lots of residents. He did say that as of today they are not showing any symptoms.

13-10-2014 05:37PM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Not really. Would you want the media camped outside your door endlessly speculating on whether you were going to get sick and possibly die? Plus, they have been moved to a large house in a gated community. Got to be safer than them being in a cramped apartment block with lots of residents. He did say that as of today they are not showing any symptoms.

I agree no one would want the media.

In contrast, Mr Duncans's mother and nephew , I think, seem to be courting the media in US, pushed nicely along by Jesse Jackson. They are considering Legal Action against the Dallas hospital who treated Mr Duncan. They believe his death was racially motivated.

Jesse Jackson is now the family's official spokesperson

ceadaoin. · 13-10-2014 05:54PM

Jake1 wrote: »

I agree no one would want the media.

In contrast, Mr Duncans's mother and nephew , I think, seem to be courting the media in US, pushed nicely along by Jesse Jackson. They are considering Legal Action against the Dallas hospital who treated Mr Duncan. They believe his death was racially motivated.

Jesse Jackson is now the family's official spokesperson

I know, it's ridiculous. It's more likely got to do with the fact that he was uninsured, not his race. Did he actually disclose that he had been in contact with someone who had ebola? If not, why not? I'm sure if he had been upfront from the start he would have been admitted and isolated straight away.

CelticRambler · 13-10-2014 07:29PM

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

I can only hope you learned your 'disease epidemiology' in a maths/stats setting and not a health care one. Because the blindingly obvious point you seem to have missed, is the unusually high mortality rate and lack of immunity in the general population. That is what makes this current outbreak a crisis, not it's communicability.

I'm sorry to dash your hopes, but yes, it's in a health-care setting, with my qualificiations (and authority to call in the dogs of war) last validated in July. 50% mortality is not high. The diseases that I and my colleagues watch out for and keep from the shores of Erin and other parts of Europe typically have mortality rates of around 100% ... and even if they don't, we sometimes implement variations of JapaneseLove's strategy anyway, just to make sure the problem is contained and ye can all sleep soundly in your beds.

Mortality is almost always high when new, virulent microbes appear, and once a sufficient number of individuals is affected, immunity develops. As someone else has pointed out, mortality rates in much of Africa have little to do with the causal agent and a lot to do with resources, infrastructure and religious/supersitious beliefs. Of course, we in the west would much rather fund-raise 200000€ to send one sick European child to the US for an operation with a 50-50 chance of success than spend the same on a bunch of African orphans.

Streetwalker · 13-10-2014 07:35PM

littlemac1980 wrote: »

US urges other countries to step up to the plate and get involved ASAP.

Seems that there is still a $300 million shortfall in what the UN are looking for at this stage.

It's John Kerry's statement - there's a certain amount of the typical rhetoric you expect in Political statements, but in this case I think it rings true:

"Providing this money is a critical component of our ability to be able to meet this challenge, and we need people to step up now. Now is the time for action, not words. And frankly, there is not a moment to waste in this effort."

It's actually frightening how slow the response of the world is to Ebola.

ProfessorPlum · 13-10-2014 08:06PM

CelticRambler wrote: »

I'm sorry to dash your hopes, but yes, it's in a health-care setting, with my qualificiations (and authority to call in the dogs of war) last validated in July. 50% mortality is not high. The diseases that I and my colleagues watch out for and keep from the shores of Erin and other parts of Europe typically have mortality rates of around 100% ... and even if they don't, we sometimes implement variations of JapaneseLove's strategy anyway, just to make sure the problem is contained and ye can all sleep soundly in your beds.

Mortality is almost always high when new, virulent microbes appear, and once a sufficient number of individuals is affected, immunity develops. As someone else has pointed out, mortality rates in much of Africa have little to do with the causal agent and a lot to do with resources, infrastructure and religious/supersitious beliefs. Of course, we in the west would much rather fund-raise 200000€ to send one sick European child to the US for an operation with a 50-50 chance of success than spend the same on a bunch of African orphans.

You think that 50% mortality isn't high? I think most of the civilian medical population would disagree with you.
I would hope that aquired immunity will come about by a vaccination program rather than waiting for the populous to become infected and half of them die before we see any useful levels of immunity in the population.
Glad to know that you're keeping us safe from the other nasties you mention. Is be interested to hear about them. Keep collecting those CME points btw.

WakeUp · 13-10-2014 08:07PM

CelticRambler wrote: »

I'm sorry to dash your hopes, but yes, it's in a health-care setting, with my qualificiations (and authority to call in the dogs of war) last validated in July. 50% mortality is not high. The diseases that I and my colleagues watch out for and keep from the shores of Erin and other parts of Europe typically have mortality rates of around 100% ... and even if they don't, we sometimes implement variations of JapaneseLove's strategy anyway, just to make sure the problem is contained and ye can all sleep soundly in your beds.

Mortality is almost always high when new, virulent microbes appear, and once a sufficient number of individuals is affected, immunity develops. As someone else has pointed out, mortality rates in much of Africa have little to do with the causal agent and a lot to do with resources, infrastructure and religious/supersitious beliefs. Of course, we in the west would much rather fund-raise 200000€ to send one sick European child to the US for an operation with a 50-50 chance of success than spend the same on a bunch of African orphans.

just as a matter of interest what infectious diseases would these be?..and if you are as you say in a position and responsible for looking out for such things why arent you and your colleagues keeping an eye out for ebola? or at least aware/concerned about the possibility of it reaching here. that seems lax bordering on negligent to me. if that is indeed true may I respectfully suggest that you and your colleagues get the phuckin finger out. how can you say a 50% mortality rate isnt high. its hardly low is it. how does that work?..that are a couple of other things in what you are saying here that Im not to be sure about either. so dont keep an eye on ebola because what. because we will develop an immunity for it. is that what you are saying...

ProfessorPlum · 13-10-2014 08:12PM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I know, it's ridiculous. It's more likely got to do with the fact that he was uninsured, not his race. Did he actually disclose that he had been in contact with someone who had ebola? If not, why not? I'm sure if he had been upfront from the start he would have been admitted and isolated straight away.

According to the reports I've read, he volunteered that he had recently arrived from Liberia. That together with his symptoms should have set the hospitals protocol into action. That didn't happen, so the family have every right to be angry. Turning it into a 'race' issue is another story and potentially very dangerous. Jessie Jackson should know better.

FullblownRose · 13-10-2014 08:37PM

CelticRambler wrote: »

we sometimes implement variations of JapaneseLove's strategy anyway, just to make sure the problem is contained and ye can all sleep soundly in your beds.

Hmmm..?

ProfessorPlum · 13-10-2014 08:47PM

Reminds me of Col. Nathan R Jessoup (Jack Nicholson) in 'A Few Good Men'!

"And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall"

"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it."

13-10-2014 09:13PM

Id hate to be flying in the US right now with all the scares. More passengers stuck n runway this time Bostons Loan. They have been on the runway waiting to get off for 2 1/2 hrs .Id go bananas

Emirates flight from Dubai . They had just been at Mecca. Reported Flu symptoms

They removed 5 sick passengers. Full hazmat routine.
Wouldnt SERS or MES be more of a concern considering the location

http://www.wcvb.com/live/25817004

read tweet, which claimed passengers had to wear Tyvek suits. How true that is, I dont know

ceadaoin. · 13-10-2014 09:39PM

Jake1 wrote: »

Id hate to be flying in the US right now with all the scares. More passengers stuck n runway this time Bostons Loan. They have been on the runway waiting to get off for 2 1/2 hrs .Id go bananas

Emirates flight from Dubai . They had just been at Mecca. Reported Flu symptoms

They removed 5 sick passengers. Full hazmat routine.
Wouldnt SERS or MES be more of a concern considering the location

http://www.wcvb.com/live/25817004

read tweet, which claimed passengers had to wear Tyvek suits. How true that is, I dont know

I wonder how much it costs each time they are sending these hazmat teams to meet planes? It's pretty common for passengers to be ill on planes. I'm sure it's unsustainable in the long term to keep doing this.

Although mers is a possibility in this case so it would be good if that was caught straight away.

CelticRambler · 13-10-2014 09:54PM

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

Reminds me of Col. Nathan R Jessoup (Jack Nicholson) in 'A Few Good Men'!

"And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall"

"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it."

Absolutely right. Especially the bit about "grotesque" - people think they want to know, but start talking at a party about how the pus shot out of that lymph node you were cutting through a few hours ago and ...

WakeUp wrote: »

just as a matter of interest what infectious diseases would these be?..and if you are as you say in a position and responsible for looking out for such things why arent you and your colleagues keeping an eye out for ebola?

Google "notifiable diseases" and you'll get the list. And d'you know what - some of us are keeping an eye out for things like this ... but our advice isn't always welcomed by know-better-boardsies (and who cares about the French anyway. It's not like they're Irish) :cool:

(Oh, and in case you're wondering, no, we haven't yet recorded a 'native' infection of chikungunya, but we did see a first case of 'native' dengue fever a few months ago. Anyone for a bottle of European mosquito repellent?

)

WakeUp · 13-10-2014 10:23PM

CelticRambler wrote: »

Absolutely right. Especially the bit about "grotesque" - people think they want to know, but start talking at a party about how the pus shot out of that lymph node you were cutting through a few hours ago and ...

Google "notifiable diseases" and you'll get the list. And d'you know what - some of us are keeping an eye out for things like this ... but our advice isn't always welcomed by know-better-boardsies (and who cares about the French anyway. It's not like they're Irish) :cool:

(Oh, and in case you're wondering, no, we haven't yet recorded a 'native' infection of chikungunya, but we did see a first case of 'native' dengue fever a few months ago. Anyone for a bottle of European mosquito repellent? )

so who is "we" and "our"? are you speaking on behalf of yourself or a collection of people? you need to clarify that. your link doesnt work. I had a look at the list as per your original claim can you please point out the "100%" mortality rate infections that apparently you and your colleagues are more concerned with.

FullblownRose · 14-10-2014 07:14AM

I think some people are watching too much medical drama on t.v.

gozunda · 14-10-2014 08:23AM

CelticRambler wrote: »

Absolutely right. Especially the bit about "grotesque" - people think they want to know, but start talking at a party about how the pus shot out of that lymph node you were cutting through a few hours ago and ...

Google "notifiable diseases" and you'll get the list. And d'you know what - some of us are keeping an eye out for things like this ... but our advice isn't always welcomed by know-better-boardsies (and who cares about the French anyway. It's not like they're Irish) :cool:

(Oh, and in case you're wondering, no, we haven't yet recorded a 'native' infection of chikungunya, but we did see a first case of 'native' dengue fever a few months ago. Anyone for a bottle of European mosquito repellent? )

I think PP may have posted that as an ironic response from your supposition that 'you don't want to know the truth - cos you can't handle the truth' .... :rolleyes:

smash · 14-10-2014 08:50AM

The World Health Organisation has warned the epidemic is the "most severe... health emergency in modern times".

http://news.sky.com/story/1352495/ebola-enhanced-screening-starts-at-uk-airports

Creative Juices · 14-10-2014 08:55AM

smash wrote: »

The World Health Organisation has warned the epidemic is the "most severe... health emergency in modern times".

Why would the WHO use 3 dots to describe something?

mathie · 14-10-2014 08:59AM

smash wrote: »

The World Health Organisation has warned the epidemic is the "most severe... health emergency in modern times".

http://news.sky.com/story/1352495/ebola-enhanced-screening-starts-at-uk-airports

"Hordes of panicky people seem to be evacuating the town for some unknown reason. Professor, without knowing precisely what the danger is, would you say it's time for our viewers to crack each other's heads open and feast on the goo inside?"

smash · 14-10-2014 08:59AM

Creative Juices wrote: »

Why would the WHO use 3 dots to describe something?

Go ask sky news, they reported it. But I also heard it on the radio this morning too.

gozunda · 14-10-2014 09:02AM

smash wrote: »

Go ask sky news, they reported it. But I also heard it on the radio this morning too.

+ Irish Independent - small ed pp25

'Ebola most serious health crisis in modern times' the World Health Organisation had warned

Lol - The WHO are sh/ting bricks and the Irish Health authorities are saying 'arhh sure - it's grand' ... :rolleyes:

uck51js9zml2yt · 14-10-2014 09:04AM

Just heard on the radio that a un worker in germany has died from Ebola. He was working in west africa

Ebola virus outbreak

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