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Darwin's theory

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  • #692
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    5uspect wrote: »
    Most 'conventionally' trained Scientists, as J C claimes he is, would not cite a thing so trivial as a Mensa membership. They would in fact list their academic qualifications, something J C has refused point blank to do; even when every other qualified poster on the d'other mega thread supplied their qualifications.

    Not to mention the times he got caught copy-pasting and repeatedly lying...
    I fully agree that my membership of Mensa is indeed relatively trivial in comparison with my academic qualifications. The former was achieved by doing an exam one wet Saturday afternoon ... while the latter has been achieved in a life-long learning and research process.

    I cited my Mensa membership in reply to a relatively trivial post that stated that I would need treble my IQ.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=92575912&postcount=676

    ... and then all hell broke loose with people doubting that I could be a member of Mensa ... calling me a liar and calling for proof that I am a genius.

    ... and now suddenly, the whole thing is 'trivial'!!:eek:


  • #693
    5uspect
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 10,526 Mod ✭✭✭✭5uspect


    So what are your academic qualifications? I don't care about your identify or specifics that would lead to that.

    What was your undergrad degree?
    What was your postgrad degree?


  • #694
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Wibbs wrote: »
    That's cosmology, not evolutionary theory. And as I noted dreamt up by a priest. Genetic inheritance was another one dreamt up by a priest. Newton was very religious and produced more writings on theology than physics(and gave a nod to the work of Catholic scientists). Copernicus was another man of the cloth and contrary to popular was supported by his church. His first book was produced by the vatican and dedicated to the pope of the time. That's before we get to Muslim scientists, and Buddhist and Hindu and... A shed load of damn good science was produced by very religious people. Who'd have thunk it.
    Who would have thought it indeed.
    ... not the Atheists on this thread most of the time.
    ... people of Faith continue at the cutting edge of science today ... including Creation Scientists and ID proponents.
    Wibbs wrote: »
    Eh... no. The Cambrian explosion came long after life kicked off on the planet. A billion plus years long after. How can you begin to refute any theory if you don't know the basics of same?
    ... thanks for reminding me ... Evolutionists also believe in the spontaneous generation of life from nothing using nothing except blind chance ... even though this was disproven by Pasteur and breaks the Biological Law of biogenesis.


  • #695
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,313 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    SaveOurLyric wrote: »
    Unlike scientists,who stick to whatever script is fashioable at a given time. Next month, the 'scientifically proven facts' will be new ones contradicting the old ones.
    Eh nope. New evidence adds to, or reduces confidence in existing theories or kicks off new ones.
    Creation Science has had it right from the beginning for those who choose to see.
    It's feck all to do with choosing to see. It's down to the evidence fitting a theory and creationism is seriously lacking in that regard. It works backwards from a given trying to squeeze square pegs of actual evidence into round holes.

    Take JC's polystrata or whatever they're called. Basically where you find trees still upright surrounded by depths of sediment. He's right they are evidence of flooding(and/or subsidence), however it's evidence of local flooding conditions in estuarial environments. Upper Carboniferous deposits throw them up from time to time. The problem with his Noah flood explanation is that in a fair few examples where such trees were inundated by sediments they continued to grow from the trunk above the depth of this flood sediment, so this shows they weren't drowned by some global flood and some grew a few times after successive flood events.

    The other rapid laying down of sediments are well known and have been since the time of the Greeks. Vulcanism can lay down huge amounts of sediment in a very short time. Pompeii a good example where the town was buried under hundreds of feet of deposits in days. We have many examples of these events in prehistoric times too. The burgess shales being one from the top of my head. These sediments and the rocks that are formed from them have a very particular profile and are easily recognisable as such. Sandstones and limestones have very different profiles and take far longer to build up(though some sandstones can be rapid enough).

    Take our own pleasant land. Go to the cliffs of Moher and observe the thickness of the carboniferous limestone. Hundreds of feet thick. Each band containing uncountable numbers of fossilised marine life, that lived and died and were preserved, laid down over very long periods of time. If creation science had legs you would be asking just how many global floods were there?

    Never mind all that, let's take it backwards and say there was a global flood that made dinosaurs and anything that didn't get in the ark extinct. OK then, what happened to all the dinosaurs that were fully aquatic? Fully aquatic to the degree that they gave birth to live young in the open ocean. A flood to them would be a godsend(no pun). All that drowned food washing around. What happened to all the ancient orders of fish and sharks and molluscs in this flood? It just doesn't make any sense even on a cursory glance.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #696
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,246 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    5uspect wrote: »
    So what are your academic qualifications? I don't care about your identify or specifics that would lead to that.

    What was your undergrad degree?
    What was your postgrad degree?

    Biblical science and Biblical meteorology?

    @JC: You've not yet explained how modern science's dating systems are suspect.

    Can you attend to this trivial matter, oh great genius?



    Two words I think of when I think of evangelists: dishonesty and conceit.


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  • #697
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    5uspect wrote: »
    So what are your academic qualifications? I don't care about your identify or specifics that would lead to that.

    What was your undergrad degree?
    What was your postgrad degree?
    I do not share this information for obvious reasons when there are open calls for the rescinding of the conventional science degrees of Creationists and other advocacy of gross discrimination against us.


  • #698
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    Biblical science and Biblical meteorology?

    @JC: You've not yet explained how modern science's dating systems are suspect.

    Can you attend to this trivial matter, oh great genius?
    Why should I treat such impertinence with anything other than the contempt that it deserves?

    Pherekydes wrote: »
    Two words I think of when I think of evangelists: dishonesty and conceit.
    That says everything about you ... and nothing about evangelists.;)


  • #699
    endacl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,447 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    J C wrote: »
    I do not share this information for obvious reasons when there are open calls for the rescinding of the conventional science degrees of Creationists and other advocacy of gross discrimination against us.

    You're an oppressed mass now?

    :D


  • #700
    Vinnie L
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 56 ✭✭Vinnie L


    lanomist wrote: »
    just a question, If Darwins theory on evolution, that humankind evolved from apes, why are there still apes out there ?

    We didn't, we had a shared ancestor.
    We all evolved from carbon, and H20, so it's a bit like asking why does carbon and H20 still exist ? The bigger question is why did all this abundant and sometimes intelligent life evolve from effectively nothing.


  • #701
    Vinnie L
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 56 ✭✭Vinnie L


    J C wrote: »
    Who would have thought it indeed.
    ... not the Atheists on this thread most of the time.
    ... people of Faith continue at the cutting edge of science today ... including Creation Scientists and ID proponents.

    ... thanks for reminding me ... Evolutionists also believe in the spontaneous generation of life from nothing using nothing except blind chance ... even though this was disproven by Pasteur and breaks the Biological Law of biogenesis.

    Why do you not believe in theistic evolution ?


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  • #702
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,313 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    J C wrote: »
    W
    ... people of Faith continue at the cutting edge of science today ... including Creation Scientists and ID proponents.
    Indeed they do, but not in ID. The vatican still produces great science today, but not in creationism. They got with the times.
    even though this was disproven by Pasteur and breaks the Biological Law of biogenesis.
    Oh god you really need a history of science lesson. Short story: Greek thought had held that complex life could spontaneously occur, fish could come from stones and such and this idea had held sway in the classical world and when it fell European science kept it going. Pasteur simply pointed out that this didn't happen, that observable life came from life. Neither theory took into account microscopic life or the evolution of life itself. It was outside of Pasteurs remit and the knowledge of the time.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #703
    5uspect
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 10,526 Mod ✭✭✭✭5uspect


    J C wrote: »
    I do not share this information for obvious reasons when there are open calls for the rescinding of the degrees of Creationists and other advocacy of gross discrimination against us.

    Saying you have a BSc in Science and a PhD in Biochemistry isn't going to do anything of the sort. I have a degree in Aeronautics and a PhD in Fluid Mechanics, I have completed two postdocs and I have worked in the BioTech sector. None of these identify me.

    What are the degrees that qualify you as a Scientist?
    How many peer reviewed papers did you publish last year?


  • #704
    Canis Lupus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,880 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    J C wrote: »
    I have now googled 'Mensa acceptance letter' ... and it didn't provide the link you have posted ... so where/how did you get that link?

    Could I also point out that the reg number on the document on your link is unreadable ... while I have provided this on the transcript of my letter.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=92576379&postcount=694

    I googled the text and it was in image search results. I'm not even a member of Mensa and I could do that. It's not rocket science.


  • #705
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Oh sure SOL, science screws up on quite a regular basis and dodgy theories gain ground and are near unassailable givens for a time, however and it's a big however sooner or later such theories get updated or overturned. It's quite a regular thing. Science has the ability to evolve over time as evidence mounts up that backs up a theory or discredits it.
    The one thing that Evolutionists seem incapable of 'evolving' is the basics in the theory of evolution itself ... ye 'hang on in there' with grim determination in the face of mounting and overwhelming evidence that the CFSI (Complex Functional Specified Information) found in living organisms was Intelligently Designed ... whilst bad-mouthing and name-calling anybody who points this out to ye.
    Wibbs wrote: »
    Take the formation of the universe. Beyond religious explanations the idea took hold that the universe was always here, a steady state. Then a cosmic atom exploding, the "big bang" came along(ironically given the thread, thought up by a Catholic priest) and the mounting evidence for this backed up this notion and the steady state universe faded as a working theory.
    It was actually the 'Big Whisper' when God called forth the Universe in an act of His Divine omnipotence.


  • #706
    5uspect
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 10,526 Mod ✭✭✭✭5uspect


    What is the mathematical definition of CFSI?
    Have you a peer reviewed paper detailing it?


  • #707
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,246 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    J C wrote: »
    Why should I treat such impertinence with anything other than the contempt that it deserves?

    You claimed you were a genius. I guess that you have no explanation, then.

    That says everything about you ... and nothing about evangelists.;)

    I'm not claiming that life, the universe and everything was created especially for me and mine! I'm not making dishonest claims about dating systems which I then refuse to stand over when challenged.

    TTFN. Off to watch a match.


  • #708
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,313 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    J C wrote: »
    The one thing that Evolutionists seem incapable of 'evolving' is the basics in theory of evolution itself
    Incorrect. The theory has been constantly added to since Darwin(and others) came up with it. Darwin didn't know about DNA for a start.

    Again why did massive numbers of sea creatures go extinct in your flood theory? If the human population was reduced to Noah and his wife and kids where is the lack of evidence for serious inbreeding in humans? Never mind that you simply can't regenerate a species from two of its number. I suppose that's the point where people insert miracles. The theory of evolution on the other hand requires no such miracles, just evidence and more research.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #709
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Canis Lupus wrote: »
    I googled the text and it was in image search results. I'm not even a member of Mensa and I could do that. It's not rocket science.
    I have just googled 'Mensa Acceptance Letter images' ... and 'British Mensa Acceptance Letter images' ... and 'Irish Mensa Acceptance Letter images' .... and it was only american mensa letters that came up in all three cases.

    ... and I have googled a section of text from the letter and the only links that google put up were to the posts on this thread on the boards.

    ... so please tell us exactly how you googled this image.


  • #710
    5uspect
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 10,526 Mod ✭✭✭✭5uspect


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Incorrect. The theory has been constantly added to since Darwin(and others) came up with it. Darwin didn't know about DNA for a start.

    Again why did massive numbers of sea creatures go extinct in your flood theory? If the human population was reduced to Noah and his wife and kids where is the lack of evidence for serious inbreeding in humans? Never mind that you simply can't regenerate a species from two of its number. I suppose that's the point where people insert miracles. The theory of evolution on the other hand requires no such miracles, just evidence and more research.

    Lets pick a paper, any paper from here or here or here and let J C explain to us what's wrong with it.


  • #711
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 94,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Then a cosmic atom exploding, the "big bang" came along(ironically given the thread, thought up by a Catholic priest) and the mounting evidence for this backed up this notion and the steady state universe faded as a working theory.

    Angelo Secchi looked at the stars with a spectroscope. He showed that the sun wasn't the centre of the universe like everyone thought, it was just another star.

    He was a Jesuit.


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  • #712
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Incorrect. The theory has been constantly added to since Darwin(and others) came up with it. Darwin didn't know about DNA for a start.
    Constantly propped up with ever increasingly implausible stories.
    Wibbs wrote: »
    Again why did massive numbers of sea creatures go extinct in your flood theory?
    You are correct that there are billions of fossilized large sea creatures perfectly preserved in billions of tonnes of sedimentary rock hundreds of feet thick. Only water-based tectonic processes operating catastrophically (as distinct from gradually) on a worldwide scale could generate such quantities of sediment and deposit it fast enough to produce these fossil beds - that have a worldwide distribution.
    Wibbs wrote: »
    If the human population was reduced to Noah and his wife and kids where is the lack of evidence for serious inbreeding in humans? Never mind that you simply can't regenerate a species from two of its number.
    Humans and other creatures were Created perfect and with significant inbuilt genetic diversity. This diversity has declined since the Fall (and continues to do so). It has declined via loss of diversity due to selection (pedigree animals being an extreme example of this in action) and it has degraded via mutagenesis to the point where all creatures carry hundreds of lethal genes (that are masked in the recessive state, in most cases).
    Up to the Flood and for some years afterwards, genetics hadn't declined to the point where there was significant risk of uncovering lethal and semi-lethal traits by breeding closely related organisms ... and that is why ADAM's children married each other ... and Noah's grandchildren did likewise.

    This is no longer the case ... and hasn't been for thousands of years ... and that is why marriage of people with close consanguinity is illegal, for example.


  • #713
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    Angelo Secchi looked at the stars with a spectroscope. He showed that the sun wasn't the centre of the universe like everyone thought, it was just another star.

    He was a Jesuit.
    It goes to show that people of faith, like myself, do observe the evidence objectively and do make logical reasoned conclusions based on it ... without engaging in emotional name-calling outbursts, like those from the Atheists on this thread.


  • #714
    kingchess
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 795 ✭✭✭kingchess


    I wonder how many scientists who are not followers of the bible/koran believe in Creation theory??are there any experts who believe that theory who are members of ,for example, the hindu faith,or of any other faith??


  • #715
    Canis Lupus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,880 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    J C wrote: »
    I have just googled 'Mensa Acceptance Letter images' ... and 'British Mensa Acceptance Letter images' ... and 'Irish Mensa Acceptance Letter images' .... and it was only american mensa letters that came up in all three cases.

    ... and I have googled a section of text from the letter and the only links that google put up were to the posts on this thread on the boards.

    ... so please tell us exactly how you googled this image.

    Please tell us?

    Yikes JC... 'My name is Legion: for we are many' is it?

    Anyway Mensa man, here you go if it helps all of you to sleep:Link


  • #716
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    J C wrote: »
    Constantly propped up with ever increasingly implausible stories.

    You are correct that there are billions of fossilized large sea creatures perfectly preserved in billions of tonnes of sedimentary rock hundreds of feet thick. Only water-based tectonic processes operating catastrophically (as distinct from gradually) on a worldwide scale could generate such quantities of sediment and deposit it fast enough to produce these fossil beds - that have a worldwide distribution.

    Humans and other creatures were Created perfect and with significant inbuilt genetic diversity. This diversity has declined since the Fall (and continues to do so). It has declined via loss of diversity due to selection (pedigree animals being an extreme example of this in action) and it has degraded via mutagenesis to the point where all creatures carry hundreds of lethal genes (that are masked in the recessive state, in most cases).
    Up to the Flood and for some years afterwards, genetics hadn't declined to the point where there was significant risk of uncovering lethal and semi-lethal traits by breeding closely related organisms ... and that is why ADAM's children married each other ... and Noah's grandchildren did likewise.

    This is no longer the case ... and hasn't been for thousands of years ... and that is why marriage of people with close consanguinity is illegal, for example.

    Fascinating in a disturbing, beautiful mind kind of way.


  • #717
    endacl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,447 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    J C wrote: »
    Constantly propped up with ever increasingly implausible stories.

    You are correct that there are billions of fossilized large sea creatures perfectly preserved in billions of tonnes of sedimentary rock hundreds of feet thick. Only water-based tectonic processes operating catastrophically (as distinct from gradually) on a worldwide scale could generate such quantities of sediment and deposit it fast enough to produce these fossil beds - that have a worldwide distribution.

    Humans and other creatures were Created perfect and with significant inbuilt genetic diversity. This diversity has declined since the Fall (and continues to do so). It has declined via loss of diversity due to selection (pedigree animals being an extreme example of this in action) and it has degraded via mutagenesis to the point where all creatures carry hundreds of lethal genes (that are masked in the recessive state, in most cases).
    Up to the Flood and for some years afterwards, genetics hadn't declined to the point where there was significant risk of uncovering lethal and semi-lethal traits by breeding closely related organisms ... and that is why ADAM's children married each other ... and Noah's grandchildren did likewise.

    This is no longer the case ... and hasn't been for thousands of years ... and that is why marriage of people with close consanguinity is illegal, for example.

    You have actually outdone yourself with that one! Fabulous. If I was trolling, with a library full of nonsense to hand, and a team of researchers, I don't think I could have come up with anything to match that.


  • #718
    Edgarfrndly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 489 ✭✭Edgarfrndly


    J C wrote: »
    Humans and other creatures were Created perfect and with significant inbuilt genetic diversity.

    You just don't understand biology, do you? Diversity isn't something that a single individual possesses. It is the scale of difference between an entire population of people.


  • #719
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Canis Lupus wrote: »
    Please tell us?

    Yikes JC... 'My name is Legion: for we are many' is it?
    Ye said this not me ... I have a cure for that - do you want it?

    Canis Lupus wrote: »
    Anyway Mensa man, here you go if it helps all of you to sleep:Link
    Followed your link ... but no British Mensa Letter in the images provided.
    ... so where/how did you get the link?


  • #720
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Edgarfrndly wrote: »
    You just don't understand biology, do you? Diversity isn't something that a single individual possesses. It is the scale of difference between an entire population of people.
    Some individuals have wide diversity in their genes ... and others, like pedigree animals, have very narrow diversity.

    For example, two genetically diverse creatures of the Dog Kind gave rise to all Dog breeds and species today.
    ... whereas pedigree poodles can only produce more pedigree poodles.:)


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  • #721
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    smcgiff wrote: »
    Fascinating in a disturbing, beautiful mind kind of way.
    Could you be more specific?


This discussion has been closed.
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