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Vodafone knowingly misleading customers re: prequals

  • 21-07-2014 11:56AM
    #1
    dalta5billion
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭


    Vodafone is knowingly misleading customers ordering Vodafone-branded eFibre. When one enters their landline number on the Vodafone page, an ajax POST request is sent to a Vodafone endpoint, which returns JSON with the maximum profile the line prequals for (presumably they get this data from Eircom wholesale, but adjust for overhead).


    862p2qO.png


    Vodafone however choose not to share this information with the customer, and continue to claim that "Your line can support up to 100Mb". Shady in the extreme.


    Now, while it could be argued that sometimes prequals go wrong, and so it would be unwise to treat them as definite, it's still wrong to knowingly misinform customers like that - even if during the callback they tell you this information, it would amount to a bait-and-switch.


Comments

  • #2
    RGDATA!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭RGDATA!


    Well spotted. This is poor form alright.


  • #3
    BeerWolf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,122 ✭✭✭BeerWolf


    Aye... Eircom shows my line does a whooping 1MB, and Vodafone just that generic UP TO 100MB still... seems to just check if any form of broadband is possible, no proper checks like Eircom's.


  • #4
    RGDATA!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭RGDATA!


    BeerWolf wrote: »
    Aye... Eircom shows my line does a whooping 1MB, and Vodafone just that generic UP TO 100MB still... seems to just check if any form of broadband is possible, no proper checks like Eircom's.

    Actually, if I understand dalta5billion correctly he's saying it does do a proper check, it just doesn't give you the actual result, instead giving you a deliberately vague and misleading one. It's also pretty amateurish that they thought nobody would look at the source code and notice this.


  • #5
    dalta5billion
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭dalta5billion


    RGDATA! wrote: »
    Actually, if I understand dalta5billion correctly he's saying it does do a proper check, it just doesn't give you the actual result, instead giving you a deliberately vague and misleading one. It's also pretty amateurish that they thought nobody would look at the source code and notice this.

    Correct.


  • #6
    nilhg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,297 ✭✭✭nilhg


    Good spot OP, but I'm wondering how accurate the info being returned is?


    315372.JPG

    While I'm delighted to see that figure for my line, I'm 800 meters from the cab (in a straight line down the road) 95mb is a lot higher speed than I've seen being suggested as possible anywhere else.

    Cab goes live on Wednesday so hopefully I'll be connected to the eFibre early next week and all will be revealed then.


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  • #7
    dalta5billion
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭dalta5billion


    nilhg wrote: »
    Good spot OP, but I'm wondering how accurate the info being returned is?

    While I'm delighted to see that figure for my line, I'm 800 meters from the cab (in a straight line down the road) 95mb is a lot higher speed than I've seen being suggested as possible anywhere else.

    Cab goes live on Wednesday so hopefully I'll be connected to the eFibre early next week and all will be revealed then.

    Good point: what does the Eircom site say for you under "Discover the maximum speed..." thing?


  • #8
    BeerWolf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,122 ✭✭✭BeerWolf


    Question: What's that app / site for that ' {"response":"Yes 95.37MB"} reading in them pics ?


  • #9
    dalta5billion
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭dalta5billion


    BeerWolf wrote: »
    Question: What's that app / site for that ' {"response":"Yes 95.37MB"} reading in them pics ?

    Chrome developer tools, network tab. (Chrome Menu -> More Tools -> Developer Tools -> Network Tab). Then with that open, input your number, and click check. You'll see that request at the left side "linecheck.shtml". Click on that, and then the response tab on the right.


  • #10
    ElNino
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭ElNino


    That line check says that my max attainable speed is 66.76MB yet my eircom router is synced at 71.679MB with a max attainable speed of 82.692 MB presumably after vectoring is enabled.


  • #11
    Kensington
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,683 ✭✭✭Kensington


    Well spotted but from past dealings with Vodafone I'm not really surprised.
    Their website as a whole is rubbish so I wouldn't say it's even a deliberate error.


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  • #12
    BeerWolf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,122 ✭✭✭BeerWolf


    dalta5billion wrote: »
    Chrome developer tools, network tab. (Chrome Menu -> More Tools -> Developer Tools -> Network Tab). Then with that open, input your number, and click check. You'll see that request at the left side "linecheck.shtml". Click on that, and then the response tab on the right.

    response: "Yes 1000KB"

    /woo


  • #13
    dalta5billion
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭dalta5billion


    BeerWolf wrote: »
    response: "Yes 1000KB"

    /woo

    I presume that's an NGB prequal.


  • #14
    MichealKenny
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 237 ✭✭MichealKenny


    Simple Python script to get this information if you don't use chrome.(Right click, save as)

    Or just use this: 
    http://vodafone.ie/utility/broadband/linecheck.shtml?perlico_areacode=###&perlico_number=#######

    Replace hashes with your phone number.

    Shame the website is so slow, would love to compile a list of all the speeds in my area, but it sometimes takes 5-10 seconds to retrieve the data, if anyone is interested i'll write the program, but it'll be slow, an overnight job, also I feel like writing stuff like that would cause vodafone to shut this speed finder down.


  • #15
    swoofer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭swoofer


    all very useful, mine said 48mb but I get either 35 or 38, does this mean cab is enabled for vectoring?

    @nilhg any feedback? I am about 800metres as well but no sign of 95mb!!


  • #16
    nilhg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,297 ✭✭✭nilhg


    swoofer wrote: »
    all very useful, mine said 48mb but I get either 35 or 38, does this mean cab is enabled for vectoring?

    @nilhg any feedback? I am about 800metres as well but no sign of 95mb!!

    Full story is here, but this is where I am now:


    3672609621.png


    If I can run the speed test to a Vodafone server the ping can be as low as 7ms.


  • #17
    AlanS181824
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭AlanS181824


    Sorry for bringing up this thread but Ed E just told me about it and I find it really interesting.

    This line checker says I can get 95.37Mb, I sync at 100/20 with my attainables around 120/28 depending on the day.

    I can get 94/18 on a download test or 95/18 on a good day so this tool seems pretty accurate to me!


  • #18
    TitianGerm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,335 ✭✭✭✭TitianGerm


    I currently get 7mb with Vodafone broadband and was going to see about switching over to their fibre service. I filled in that form in the OP last night and same as that I can get up to 100 mb. I just ran the test above and it came back as 78mb. Over ten times faster than what I'm currently getting.

    Would anybody have any idea roughly how long it takes to swithh from standard to fibre with Vodafone ?


  • #19
    Varik
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,543 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    Getting what they've me on, 14.65 out of 24mb.

    Could be worse.

    Took years to get even that, and I'm unlikely to see any/much of an improvement of they do stay offering better.


  • #20
    AlanS181824
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭AlanS181824


    emmetkenny wrote: »
    I currently get 7mb with Vodafone broadband and was going to see about switching over to their fibre service. I filled in that form in the OP last night and same as that I can get up to 100 mb. I just ran the test above and it came back as 78mb. Over ten times faster than what I'm currently getting.

    Would anybody have any idea roughly how long it takes to swithh from standard to fibre with Vodafone ?

    I joined Vodafone from Sky, ordered on 18/4 and was connected on 25/4.

    I'm sure it's faster transferring from Vodafone ADSL to Vodafone Fibre though!


  • #21
    TitianGerm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,335 ✭✭✭✭TitianGerm


    AlanS181824 wrote: »
    I joined Vodafone from Sky, ordered on 18/4 and was connected on 25/4.

    I'm sure it's faster transferring from Vodafone ADSL to Vodafone Fibre though!

    That's good to hear. I was 4 months waiting to orginially get Vodafone in. I can't be out without internet noe for work.


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  • #22
    MichealKenny
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 237 ✭✭MichealKenny


    Considering this thread was bumped I might as well bring up that i've actually developed a small web app for these prequals.

    http://speedcheck.mikenny.com/

    Also if you're a developer, I built a small api, access it like this: 
    http://speedcheck.mikenny.com/<number>

    It's faster than Vodafone's and much much cleaner than Eircom's, I am also continuously developing it.

    MichealKenny wrote: »
    Shame the website is so slow, would love to compile a list of all the speeds in my area, but it sometimes takes 5-10 seconds to retrieve the data, if anyone is interested i'll write the program, but it'll be slow, an overnight job, also I feel like writing stuff like that would cause vodafone to shut this speed finder down.

    I built it to do this because I was sick of how slow Vodafone's was, it was a real pain to build though, Eircom's API is just horrible, the problems with it:
    • have to take into account area codes
    • have to request it twice because on the first request it populates empty(the **** Eircom?)
    • The JSON objects change depending on the technology used(adsl1, adsl2, vdsl)

    My api:
    • get number
    • returns speed

    That so hard Eircom?


  • #23
    dalta5billion
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭dalta5billion


    MichealKenny wrote: »
    I built it to do this because I was sick of how slow Vodafone's was, it was a real pain to build though, Eircom's API is just horrible, the problems with it:
    • have to take into account area codes
    • have to request it twice because on the first request it populates empty(the **** Eircom?)
    • The JSON objects change depending on the technology used(adsl1, adsl2, vdsl)

    My api:
    • get number
    • returns speed

    That so hard Eircom?

    Oh god Michael, you ain't seen nothin' yet: check out my attempts over on this Infosec thread to get them to shut down a reverse phone book API; I ended up going public: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057275419


  • #24
    AlanS181824
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭AlanS181824


    MichealKenny wrote: »
    Considering this thread was bumped I might as well bring up that i've actually developed a small web app for these prequals.

    http://speedcheck.mikenny.com/

    Also if you're a developer, I built a small api, access it like this: 
    http://speedcheck.mikenny.com/<number>

    It's faster than Vodafone's and much much cleaner than Eircom's, I am also continuously developing it.




    I built it to do this because I was sick of how slow Vodafone's was, it was a real pain to build though, Eircom's API is just horrible, the problems with it:
    • have to take into account area codes
    • have to request it twice because on the first request it populates empty(the **** Eircom?)
    • The JSON objects change depending on the technology used(adsl1, adsl2, vdsl)

    My api:
    • get number
    • returns speed

    That so hard Eircom?

    Massive kudos Michael!

    Mods really should have this stickied as it's immensely useful.

    Cheers.


  • #25
    roast
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,320 ✭✭✭roast


    MichealKenny wrote: »
    Considering this thread was bumped I might as well bring up that i've actually developed a small web app for these prequals.

    http://speedcheck.mikenny.com/

    Also if you're a developer, I built a small api, access it like this: 
    http://speedcheck.mikenny.com/<number>

    It's faster than Vodafone's and much much cleaner than Eircom's, I am also continuously developing it.

    My api:
    • get number
    • returns speed

    That so hard Eircom?

    Excellent! This is gonna come in handy. Lovely and clean. Cheers. :)


  • #26
    swoofer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭swoofer


    Very nice, I just tried it and it says speed is 47.7mb but is this an actual speed or that marvelous get out , the up to speed?? I get 38mb for a few weeks and eventually it drops to 34/35mb. I tried ringing VF a while ago about vectoring and tech support just said there was a fault on the line and red flagged it. Next thing or next day eircom guy turns up, tests line, goes to cabinet, says line is perfect, showed me an attainable rate of 44mb. I then asked about vectoring, so he rang dublin, they said cabinet had vectoring. The next bit just peed me of and I gave up!! I then asked, if the cabinet has vectoring should it not follow my speed should increase. He then said, aha the cabinet may have vectoring BUT it may not have been enabled yet!! I did not have the heart or the patience to ask him to ring that nice number in dublin and ask if the *****ing cabinet was enabled!!

    And I have not bothered since. I have router bridged and apparently if I do a reset and a reboot it may kick in but to be honest I hardly care anymore. However if that speed check is the speed I should be getting then I will make one more attempt.

    swoofer


  • #27
    ElNino
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭ElNino


    That database is based on individual line pre-qualification tests so it is the actual maximum attainable speed on your line. However as you said already the caveat seems to be that it is only with vectoring switched on at the cabinet. In my own case it says 95.5mb but I am still on 70mb. I am going to ring eircom again to see if vectoring is enabled on my cabinet.


  • #28
    AlanS181824
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭AlanS181824


    swoofer wrote: »
    Very nice, I just tried it and it says speed is 47.7mb but is this an actual speed or that marvelous get out , the up to speed?? I get 38mb for a few weeks and eventually it drops to 34/35mb. I tried ringing VF a while ago about vectoring and tech support just said there was a fault on the line and red flagged it. Next thing or next day eircom guy turns up, tests line, goes to cabinet, says line is perfect, showed me an attainable rate of 44mb. I then asked about vectoring, so he rang dublin, they said cabinet had vectoring. The next bit just peed me of and I gave up!! I then asked, if the cabinet has vectoring should it not follow my speed should increase. He then said, aha the cabinet may have vectoring BUT it may not have been enabled yet!! I did not have the heart or the patience to ask him to ring that nice number in dublin and ask if the *****ing cabinet was enabled!!

    And I have not bothered since. I have router bridged and apparently if I do a reset and a reboot it may kick in but to be honest I hardly care anymore. However if that speed check is the speed I should be getting then I will make one more attempt.

    swoofer
    95.4Mbps is what it says for my landline and I have gotten 95Mb (usually 94Mb) on a speed test so that might be able to give you an idea of its accuracy.

    Bear in mind I've been on Vodafone Fibre since April with the cabinet being Vectoring enabled since then also in case that has any bearing.

    I'd imagine this would be very useful to pressure your ISP for a speed test as it uses Eircoms own database so it'd be very hard to argue!:pac:


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