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Nature in the News

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,077 ✭✭✭Capercaille


    Vivisectus wrote: »
    Ah, but that is because they are native there no doubt. We have no data on what happens when they are introduced.
    You are being pedantic


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,989 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    If they are judged to have a negative impact on native wildlife, they should be removed.
    We would have to wait until they were well established in order to study their real effect on native wildlife, before being able to make any such judgement.
    If well established, efforts at either protection or eradication are pointless.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,077 ✭✭✭Capercaille


    recedite wrote: »
    We would have to wait until they were well established in order to study their real effect on native wildlife, before being able to make any such judgement.
    If well established, efforts at either protection or eradication are pointless.

    So you're saying just chance it. Should muntjac deer not be eradicated if detected so?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 807 ✭✭✭Vivisectus


    You are being pedantic

    Semi-facetious at most :)

    But you must admit that your counter-point is not very strong: we do not HAVE any data on bee-eater impact in new environments, and the fact that they are not (yet) breeding here is neither here nor there.

    I am just highlighting the point that terms like "native" or "natural" are not nearly as self-evident as most people think, and that we make decisions about which species we counteract based on very different criteria.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,077 ✭✭✭Capercaille


    Vivisectus wrote: »
    Semi-facetious at most :)

    But you must admit that your counter-point is not very strong: we do not HAVE any data on bee-eater impact in new environments, and the fact that they are not (yet) breeding here is neither here nor there.

    I am just highlighting the point that terms like "native" or "natural" are not nearly as self-evident as most people think, and that we make decisions about which species we counteract based on very different criteria.
    The biggest threat to biodiversity on the planet (after habitat destruction) is the introduction of non-native species into an environment. That has been proven numerous times.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 807 ✭✭✭Vivisectus


    The biggest threat to biodiversity on the planet (after habitat destruction) is the introduction of non-native species into an environment. That has been proven numerous times.

    Recent research in the UK suggests that it is a lot more complicated than that:

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1365-2664.2000.00538.x/pdf


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,077 ✭✭✭Capercaille


    Vivisectus wrote: »
    Recent research in the UK suggests that it is a lot more complicated than that:

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1365-2664.2000.00538.x/pdf
    Do you think that the introduction of non-native species has had a negative impact on Irish wildlife?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,896 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Vivisectus wrote: »
    then we better kill off the bee-eaters. They could very well put extra pressure on the native bees. Besides, if it wasn't for human-created unnatural climate change they may not have gotten here, so it sort of counts as an introduction.

    There is no evidence for that in other parts of Europe so why bring it up. The factors behind bee declines are well known and have nothing to do with these or any other bird species.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,896 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Vivisectus wrote: »
    The way we differentiate between what we consider introduction and what we consider colonization is more or less arbitrary, however. Nor do we really use the introduction part as the criterium. No-one minds eagles being unnaturally re-introduced, for instance: we have decided that they are "native" or that their extinction was "unnatural". We see them as a valued addition to the natural systems that we introduce them to.

    However, when it comes to wild boar, which share with eagles the distinction of once having been part of the irish eco-system and which in all probability were wiped out by us humans, then we decide that they are invasive because they change certain biological systems, and because their re-introduction was either accidental or purposeful but not done with our general approval.

    The only difference between these two examples seems to be that we like the eagles and like the changes they bring to our eco-system, but that we do not like the changes wild boar bring with them.

    Another example are the new, bigger shrews which seem to be colonizing Ireland. We did not plan it and we worry about the changes it will bring, and if they will out-compete other species, even possibly driving them into extinction.

    But we don't know what bee-eaters will do either - what if they thrive and put more pressure on the already suffering honey-bee?

    In the end, we simply like bee eaters, and we have a tendency to consider things that happen without human intervention as somehow better because it is "natural" - a rather arcane term, the way we tend to use it.

    We could also make the point that there is a very low likelihood of them reaching the kind of population densities that would seriously impact other wildlife.

    But we should not pretend that the fact that we choose not to counteract the appearance of certain species while we do stop other species has anything at all to do with some arcane quality called "naturalness" or "nativeness".

    With respect alot of scientific work goes into the re-introduction of former native species, both in this country and abroad. These re-introductions at an official level are done under IUCN rules which have very strict criteria. It is not done on the basis of what species is "popular" etc. but is all do with fitting these former native species in with existing habitats within a modern populated, farmed, rural landscape etc. This is why the re-introduction of the likes of Red Kites, Grey Partridges etc. makes sense at this time, while re-introducing the likes of Wolves or Brown Bears would not.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,423 ✭✭✭V_Moth


    Birdnuts wrote: »
    With respect alot of scientific work goes into the re-introduction of former native species, both in this country and abroad. These re-introductions at an official level are done under IUCN rules which have very strict criteria. It is not done on the basis of what species is "popular" etc. but is all do with fitting these former native species in with existing habitats within a modern populated, farmed, rural landscape etc. This is why the re-introduction of the likes of Red Kites, Grey Partridges etc. makes sense at this time, while re-introducing the likes of Wolves or Brown Bears would not.

    For those interested, the IUCN guidelines can be found here:

    https://portals.iucn.org/library/sites/library/files/documents/2013-009.pdf

    pp14 is probably the most relevant.
    IUCN wrote:
    1.A conservation translocation has intended conservation benefit, but it also carries risks to ecological, social and economic interests

    2. There should generally be strong evidence that the threat(s) that caused any previous extinction have been correctly identified and removed or sufficiently reduced.

    3. Assessment of any translocation proposal should include identification of potential benefits and potential negative impacts, covering ecological, social and economic aspects. This will be simpler for a reinforcement or reintroduction within indigenous range compared to any translocation outside indigenous range.

    4. Global evidence shows that introductions of species outside their indigenous range can frequently cause extreme, negative impacts that can be ecological, social or economic, are often difficult to foresee, and can become evident only long after the introduction.

    5. Conservation translocations outside indigenous range may, therefore, bring potentially high risks that are often difficult or impossible to predict with accuracy.

    6. Hence, although risk analysis around a translocation should be proportional to the presumed risks, justifying a conservation introduction requires an especially high level of confidence over the organisms’ performance after release, including over the long-term, with reassurance on its acceptability from the perspective of the release area’s ecology, and the social and economic interests of its human communities.

    7. In any decision on whether to translocate or not, the absolute level of risk must be balanced against the scale of expected benefits.

    8. Where a high degree of uncertainty remains or it is not possible to assess reliably that a conservation introduction presents low risks, it should not proceed, and alternative conservation solutions should be sought.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Back on topic - I came across this in the papers this week.
    http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-28545964


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,203 ✭✭✭dodderangler


    Back on topic - I came across this in the papers this week.
    http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-28545964

    Seen that in the zoology thread.
    Pretty amazing of four years.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,989 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Birdnuts wrote: »
    With respect alot of scientific work goes into the re-introduction of former native species, both in this country and abroad. These re-introductions at an official level are done under IUCN rules ...
    We are all aware of that, however the topic raised was what to do about unauthorised, accidental, natural or even semi-natural introductions, and the rationale for deciding whether to either protect or eradicate the species afterwards.
    Not the criteria for deciding on proposed "official reintroductions".


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    recedite wrote: »
    We are all aware of that, however the topic raised was what to do about unauthorised, accidental, natural or even semi-natural introductions, and the rationale for deciding whether to either protect or eradicate the species afterwards.
    Not the criteria for deciding on proposed "official reintroductions".

    In fairness, the topic was changed to include reintroduction programmes by another poster.
    No-one minds eagles being unnaturally re-introduced, for instance: we have decided that they are "native" or that their extinction was "unnatural". We see them as a valued addition to the natural systems that we introduce them to.

    However, when it comes to wild boar, which share with eagles the distinction of once having been part of the irish eco-system and which in all probability were wiped out by us humans, then we decide that they are invasive because they change certain biological systems,

    But, that's for another day and another thread perhaps.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,989 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    The bee eater is not native to Ireland, but there is a native honey bee.
    If bee eaters arrived, we would not know whether it was a completely natural event, or due to human induced global warming, or a deliberate private reintroduction. Nor would we be able to predict the exact effects on the existing ecosystem. That was the topic. Anyway I agree, enough said.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,896 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    recedite wrote: »
    The bee eater is not native to Ireland, but there is a native honey bee.
    If bee eaters arrived, we would not know whether it was a completely natural event, or due to human induced global warming, or a deliberate private reintroduction. Nor would we be able to predict the exact effects on the existing ecosystem. That was the topic. Anyway I agree, enough said.

    Species ebb and flow according to climate change is a totally natural event. And in the past climates have changed just as fast as some would claim they are doing now. The end of the last ice-range occurred at a rapid rate as highlighted by Greenland ice cores. Indeed it is vital for maintaining biodiversity that species have the ability to spread naturally in response to a variable climate. With regards to bee-eater never being native species, its actually something we can't rule out since they have bred in the UK on a number of occasions in the past few hundred years. They also turn up in this country occasionally as non-breeding vagrants. Who is to say that prior to organised record keeping of breeding species that the likes of Bee-eater and many other more southern Euro species did not occur during the medieval warm-period and other earlier warm climate episodes. In the UK with its more detailed avian records it is known that the likes of White Stork, Wood Lark, Red Shrike etc. were all widespread breeding birds in the past millennium. IF you go back even earlier you have evidence for the likes of Pelicans etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,560 ✭✭✭✭Kess73


    Bit of good news regarding the White Tailed Sea eagles that have made Lough Derg home.

    A pair of white-tailed sea eagles has bred successfully for a second year, producing a female chick which has flown from its nest in Lough Derg, near Mountshannon, Co Clare.

    Full article is in the link below.

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/white-tailed-eagles-breed-successfully-for-second-year-277944.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,077 ✭✭✭Capercaille


    http://www.rspb.org.uk/Images/legaleagle73_tcm9-373862.pdf
    Wildlife crime in UK, Ireland gets a mention as well.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,077 ✭✭✭Capercaille


    http://www.bou.org.uk/hen-harriers-going-going/
    Hen Harrier persecution on Grouse Moors.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 3,080 Mod ✭✭✭✭OpenYourEyes


    'Surge in the number of Corncrakes continues': http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/surge-in-the-number-of-corncrakes-continues-279358.html


    An encouraging headline, but I recall hearing that they changed the methodology of the census around two years ago so that is likely to be at least partly responsible for apparent increases. Loss of range at Shannon Callows is dissapointing and will hamper conservation efforts, though not something we weren't already aware of.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,077 ✭✭✭Capercaille


    'Surge in the number of Corncrakes continues': http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/surge-in-the-number-of-corncrakes-continues-279358.html


    An encouraging headline, but I recall hearing that they changed the methodology of the census around two years ago so that is likely to be at least partly responsible for apparent increases. Loss of range at Shannon Callows is dissapointing and will hamper conservation efforts, though not something we weren't already aware of.

    The Shannon Callows population is unfortunately not viable now and they are no plans for any re-introductions at present (no money). I would be hopeful though that corncrake numbers have increased though in the remaining areas of West Connaught and North Donegal. The reports from the Islands have been very positive this year.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,201 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    a parasitic fungus is being released in the UK in an attempt to curb the spread of himalayan balsam:

    http://www.theecologist.org/News/news_round_up/2531266/parasitic_fungus_introduced_to_attack_himalayan_balsam.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    a parasitic fungus is being released in the UK in an attempt to curb the spread of himalayan balsam:

    http://www.theecologist.org/News/news_round_up/2531266/parasitic_fungus_introduced_to_attack_himalayan_balsam.html

    I always found rust fungi affected more than the predominant plant associated with them. I hope this one does not go on to affect other wild or garden plants.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 3,080 Mod ✭✭✭✭OpenYourEyes


    'Cut up your six pack rings warns IWDG after dolphin death in Cork'

    http://www.thejournal.ie/dolphin-dead-cork-plastic-debris-1644503-Aug2014/

    Horrible thing to happen!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,077 ✭✭✭Capercaille


    'Cut up your six pack rings warns IWDG after dolphin death in Cork'

    http://www.thejournal.ie/dolphin-dead-cork-plastic-debris-1644503-Aug2014/

    Horrible thing to happen!

    I photographed this poor yellow legged gull two years ago.:(:(:(
    27zbz0m.jpg


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 3,080 Mod ✭✭✭✭OpenYourEyes


    Kestrels declining in Scotland due to farming practices:
    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-29178662


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 3,080 Mod ✭✭✭✭OpenYourEyes




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 586 ✭✭✭Desmo


    astounding!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,878 ✭✭✭whyulittle




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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,077 ✭✭✭Capercaille


    http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/sep/25/-sp-nightingales-lodge-hill-sanctuary-conservation-britain
    One of the last Nightingale populations in UK destined to be destroyed.


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