Defects

Sala · 16-09-2014 03:40PM #1

Can someone clarify for me what type of defects, if any, a seller has a duty to disclose when selling a property. I know certain things, it is presumed the purchaser is on notice (constructive or otherwise). What if you had pyrite, knew you did, what is the duty of disclosure.

godtabh · 16-09-2014 03:54PM

Sala wrote: »

Can someone clarify for me what type of defects, if any, a seller has a duty to disclose when selling a property. I know certain things, it is presumed the purchaser is on notice (constructive or otherwise). What if you had pyrite, knew you did, what is the duty of disclosure.

Are buyers required to carry out a survey (banks usually request them) or is it just good practice?

Sala · 16-09-2014 03:56PM

godtabh wrote: »

Are buyers required to carry out a survey (banks usually request them) or is it just good practice?

I don't think so. Someone just asked me this question and I believe they did it but they are not mandatory and don't think they are included in your usual structural survey but you can do one

godtabh · 16-09-2014 04:01PM

A bank wont give a loan to an asset it does not have information on. Maybe the level of survey required for a bank is different to that of one which would put your mind together.

Pyrite maybe present but this might not be known to the seller.

Sala · 16-09-2014 04:18PM

godtabh wrote: »

A bank wont give a loan to an asset it does not have information on. Maybe the level of survey required for a bank is different to that of one which would put your mind together.

Pyrite maybe present but this might not be known to the seller.

Thanks. Question is if a seller knows about the pyrite, had a survey etc, is there a duty to disclose this?

godtabh · 16-09-2014 04:50PM

Sala wrote: »

Thanks. Question is if a seller knows about the pyrite, had a survey etc, is there a duty to disclose this?

I suppose it would be down to can you prove it

Sala · 16-09-2014 04:52PM

godtabh wrote: »

I suppose it would be down to can you prove it

True. Just curious as someone I know pulled out of a sale after pyrite exam, but they know the house is back in the market and felt a bit bad for potential future purchaser!

Johnboy1951 · 16-09-2014 04:56PM

Sala wrote: »

Can someone clarify for me what type of defects, if any, a seller has a duty to disclose when selling a property. I know certain things, it is presumed the purchaser is on notice (constructive or otherwise). What if you had pyrite, knew you did, what is the duty of disclosure.

As far as I am aware known defects in the build must be disclosed ....

Seems I might be mistaken .....

Get a survey
A seller is under no obligation to disclose defects in a property. You should get a survey of the property to find out if there are any defects before finalising the purchase. The Society of Chartered Surveyors Ireland (SCSI) is the professional body for chartered surveyors.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/owning_a_home/buying_a_home/steps_involved_buying_a_home.html

... but I honestly felt sure there is some provision for disclosing known defects .....

UPDATE:
Some years ago there was an intention to bring this into force .... disclosure of known defects ..... and apparently it never happened.

So this terrible situation continues ......

GerardKeating · 16-09-2014 05:03PM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

As far as I am aware known defects in the build must be disclosed ....

Seems I might be mistaken .....

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/owning_a_home/buying_a_home/steps_involved_buying_a_home.html

... but I honestly feel sure there is some provision for disclosing known defects .....

While a seller is not obliged to disclose defects, they cannot lie about them, so a simple request, "Do you know of any defects" kind of covers this.

Pat Mustard · 16-09-2014 08:58PM

In this country, contracts for sales of land usually incorporate the Law Society General Conditions of Sale.

General Condition 16a states that the purchaser is deemed to buy with full knowledge of the actual state and condition of the property.

A good engineer is essential.

Sala · 16-09-2014 10:47PM

The Mustard wrote: »

In this country, contracts for sales of land usually incorporate the Law Society General Conditions of Sale.

General Condition 16a states that the purchaser is deemed to buy with full knowledge of the actual state and condition of the property.

A good engineer is essential.

I actually read the GC today to see of I could find anything. I thought it was a case you are deemed to be aware of the state of the property, but also think (maybe I'm wrong) that's the standard survey doesn't include pyrite? Just seems terrible unfair that you could get caught out, then again of I was the seller I would be happy to know l could still try to sell it!!

Pat Mustard · 16-09-2014 10:57PM

I doubt that engineers routinely check for pyrite in an ordinary house structural survey. Maybe they might if they had a specific reason to check, if they were asked, or if they were aware of a particular risk of pyrite.

Sala · 16-09-2014 11:04PM

The Mustard wrote: »

I doubt that engineers routinely check for pyrite in an ordinary house structural survey. Maybe they might if they had a specific reason to check, if they were asked, or if they were aware of a particular risk of pyrite.

I think it's an extra test and was told it costs in the region of 1k which is why many probably don't do it , although I'm sure an engineer would advise given the age and location of a house the likelihood of it being necessary. I was more curious if a test was done there's no point forcing subsequent tests for same thing? Could you ask has a pyrite exam ever been undertaken and would they have to answer it?

Pat Mustard · 16-09-2014 11:13PM

Sala wrote: »

Could you ask has a pyrite exam ever been undertaken and would they have to answer it?

The query could certainly be put. I wouldn't like to be in a position to have to rely on the response to that query though.

Esel · 17-09-2014 01:14AM

GerardKeating wrote: »

While a seller is not obliged to disclose defects, they cannot lie about them, so a simple request, "Do you know of any defects" kind of covers this.

I could be wrong, but afaik the same thing applies to a private seller of a car, motorcycle etc.

godtabh · 17-09-2014 11:14AM

The Mustard wrote: »

I doubt that engineers routinely check for pyrite in an ordinary house structural survey. Maybe they might if they had a specific reason to check, if they were asked, or if they were aware of a particular risk of pyrite.

Depends.

The signs of pyrite are easily seen which should lead to a test (or a recommendation of a test)

seagull · 17-09-2014 12:52PM

godtabh wrote: »

Depends.

The signs of pyrite are easily seen which should lead to a test (or a recommendation of a test)

It depends on the level of pyrite present. It can also take up to 20 years for the pyrite to start causing problems. There is another problem which is that the level that the authorities set as the allowable level for pyrite is actually significantly lower than it should be.

impr0v · 25-09-2014 09:23PM

OP - If I was worried I would:

1. Write to the estate agent and formally make it aware of the pyrite test result. This would make sure they that knew about it, and would potentially help any future buyer in the event that they weren't told about it and were ultimately forced to sue the estate agent.

2. With the site owner's permission, post the house address online somewhere, within reach of Google, with the bare facts: "I had a pyrite test carried out on this house recently, and X was the result provided to me".

ABajaninCork · 25-09-2014 10:55PM

impr0v wrote: »

OP - If I was worried I would:

1. Write to the estate agent and formally make it aware of the pyrite test result. This would make sure they that knew about it, and would potentially help any future buyer in the event that they weren't told about it and were ultimately forced to sue the estate agent.

2. With the site owner's permission, post the house address online somewhere, within reach of Google, with the bare facts: "I had a pyrite test carried out on this house recently, and X was the result provided to me".

I seriously doubt you'll get the owner's permission to do this. In any case, it would be down to the buyer to commission a survey, and to request an engineer to carry out a pyrite test if the area's a known one for pyrite.

Can the question of known defects (e.g. pyrite, subsidence) be raised in the pre-contract queries? I know that question is raised in the UK, but not sure if the same applies here. For example - if the question's asked does the property have or is prone to subsidence, the owner must answer truthfully. The vendor can be sued if they have been proved to been lying.

blacklilly · 25-09-2014 11:09PM

Pre purchase surveys are usually of a visual nature i.e no opening up works etc unless specifically requested.

If the surveyor you engage is aware of a pyrite issue in a particular estate/area they should advise you of this, in saying that, you should always ask them directly.

Pre contract requisitions do not usually ask such specific questions, however should the question be asked and the vendor and/or their agent fail to disclose same then they are leaving themselves open to litigation.

RORY O CONNOR · 28-09-2014 11:08AM

Seller is not legally obliged to tell of any defects-always best to get property inspected-even a recent build.

Defects

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