Children : Treating busy street as an area to play

RobYourBuilder · 16-09-2014 10:21AM

LexieOnRale wrote: »

I find parents who let their kids race around unsupervised would generally be the type who'd call their solicitor before an ambulance if anything happened

List the the court cases, so. They are all freely available on the Web.

You hurt yourself, you go in for a few and clean up. Then rush back out out because your team are losing 9-7.

anncoates · 16-09-2014 10:24AM

One of the issues these days is the increasingly proliferation of cars. When I visit my mother's street now, I can sometimes barely park on the street. When I was a id and played on that street, there was probably a third of the cars there.

Plus so many new estates now are geared more towards multiple car parking than pubic space.

We ourselves have two cars so we're as much a cause as anybody but cars don't have an automatic priority over everything just because you chose to build your life around it.

Kids have always played outside and always will. Even if there's a green area in an estate, they'll still be coming to and from it.

Parents just need to do their bit: try and drum into their kids about cars, not let them out after dusk and watch them as far as is ossible - for example, we binned our son's favourite toy - a scooter - because he kept disobeying orders about how fast he went on it on the path- but drivers need to be aware that there's kids around and be extra careful.

sbsquarepants · 16-09-2014 10:24AM

LexieOnRale wrote: »

God be with the days your parents put the swings and a slide and a sandpit with buckets and toy cars in it, and maybe even a goalpost in the back garden to keep you amused, rather than leaving you out on the road.

YOU are responsible for the safety of your child. YOU. Not the general public. They have a duty of care to drive safely and obviously reduce speed in built up areas, not dodge some little brat with no regard for oncoming traffic.

The problem there is a lot of apartments tend not to have back gardens.
And yes parents are responsible for their kids, and motorists are responsible for ensuring they don't drive over kids playing where they live.

They should really put this shít in the theory test.

You arrive at a busy housing estate, your kfc is getting cold and jersey shore has already started but the road is full of kids. Do you....

A. Drive slowly and exercise caution, sure you can always bang it in the microwave.
B. Mow them down, you pay your road tax don't you, they shouldn't even be there, bad parents, bla bla bla.

Bongalongherb · 16-09-2014 10:25AM

ThisRegard wrote: »

You don't 'have' to crawl it because of the reasons you outline, you should be crawling out of common sense if there's kids in the general vicinity, never mind playing in the car park.

Threads like this, yet again (it can be seen in the regular cyclists threads), show that many motorists see themselves as a priority over everybody else.

Kids play on streets in the estate, a bit of cop on will tell you to be aware of this and take it very handy. You're not going to miss performing vital heart surgery or anything like that.

Chill and relax and everyone will be happy. You'd swear this is a new phenomena.

What do you think roads are made for ? a kid play-ground ?. Nonsensical comment.

problemchimp · 16-09-2014 10:26AM

Pawn wrote: »

Fairview Strand, Ballybough, Summerhill - all full of little knackers and drunk teenagers treating the public road like it was their living room. Nightmare.

Don't generalise whatever you do.

hoodwinked · 16-09-2014 10:28AM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

The problem there is a lot of apartments tend not to have back gardens.
And yes parents are responsible for their kids, .

yet nobody is calling parents on the irresponsibility?

yes it's unfortunate when children live in apartments without back gardens, but usually thats down to their parents choices, they also have the choice to take their child to the local park/beach/play area, there is no excuse for lazy parenting.

sbsquarepants · 16-09-2014 10:30AM

Bongalongherb wrote: »

What do you think roads are made for ? a kid play-ground ?. Nonsensical comment.

What do you think housing estates are made for?

Even if you lived in the biggest estate in Ireland, to slow to a crawl and ensure you don't kill a child, regardless of whether they should be there or not could at most add a minute, lets even say 2 to be generous to your journey. What exactly do you be doing that those 2 minutes can't be spared?

ThisRegard · 16-09-2014 10:30AM

Bongalongherb wrote: »

What do you think roads are made for ? a kid play-ground ?. Nonsensical comment.

Sigh. The attitude I described summed up in one single sentence right there.

anncoates · 16-09-2014 10:30AM

Bongalongherb wrote: »

What do you think roads are made for ? a kid play-ground ?. Nonsensical comment.

I don't think anybody is saying that.

Main roads sure but roads inside housing estates, it's more vague. You live on an estate with lots of other people including kids where the road is often yards from a front door and access to green areas is often on the other side of a road.

It's not simply a racing track with the inconvenience of houses/pedestrians attached.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 16-09-2014 10:33AM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

The problem there is a lot of apartments tend not to have back gardens.
And yes parents are responsible for their kids, and motorists are responsible for ensuring they don't drive over kids playing where they live.

They should really put this shít in the theory test.

You arrive at a busy housing estate, your kfc is getting cold and jersey shore has already started but the road is full of kids. Do you....

A. Drive slowly and exercise caution, sure you can always bang it in the microwave.
B. Mow them down, you pay your road tax don't you, they shouldn't even be there, bad parents, bla bla bla.

I'm not for a second suggesting cars/motorists have rights over the road. Obviously there's going to be kids outside, it's reasonable to expect someone to reduce their speed and drive slowly through a housing estate but its not reasonable to expect drivers to forsee a child darting out from somewhere, out in front of you with their bike or after a ball. The road is not for playing on and kids that don't even have the basic understanding of the safe cross code should not be left out on their own, unsupervised, with their fate left in the hands of strangers. As for kids who grow up in apartment blocks and have no gardens, that's no reason to let them play in a carpark

sbsquarepants · 16-09-2014 10:37AM

hoodwinked wrote: »

yet nobody is calling parents on the irresponsibility?

yes it's unfortunate when children live in apartments without back gardens, but usually thats down to their parents choices, they also have the choice to take their child to the local park/beach/play area, there is no excuse for lazy parenting.

Well that's great and all but how exactly do you cook, clean and do the general day to day things that running a house entails in a park or on a beach?

If you are licenced to drive a dangerous vehicle, it is YOUR responsibility to ensure that you drive as the conditions demand. If there's kids on the road, slow down, stop if you have to, that's it - end of story, no possible exceptions. And especially if you know in ADVANCE that they'll be there.
If you don't slow down, you are a bad driver and an asshole all rolled into one.

ArmaniJeanss · 16-09-2014 10:39AM

Sorry if you car drivers don't like it but roads are for football.
Much easier to play there than on the 'greens' that you insist kids should use; grass is just not a good surface for sport unless you carry around specialised footwear with you all day.
A good 50 metre stretch of road will allow a decent game of football for anything from 5-a-side to 18-a-side. If numbers are less for whatever reason then a smaller stretch of road will do as long as there is a big wall to use as the goal for 3-and-in or heads and volleys.

Drive carefully.

hoodwinked · 16-09-2014 10:42AM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Well that's great and all but how exactly do you cook, clean and do the general day to day things that running a house entails in a park or on a beach?

If you are licenced to drive a dangerous vehicle, it is YOUR responsibility to ensure that you drive as the conditions demand. If there's kids on the road, slow down, stop if you have to, that's it - end of story, no possible exceptions. And especially if you know in ADVANCE that they'll be there.
If you don't slow down, you are a bad driver and an asshole all rolled into one.

you manage your time better? you clean while they are at school, if you work you clean when they are in bed, other people can manage it without leaving their children roaming the streets unsupervised,

yes you are responsible for your driving, but that does NOT absolve the parent from responsibilities,

like i said social services would be called on a parent leaving their 4 year old home alone while they go to work, yet there is nothing neglectful about leaving the child out on the streets amongst traffic/general public unsupervised?

Timberrrrrrrr · 16-09-2014 10:43AM

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Sorry if you car drivers don't like it but roads are for football.
Much easier to play there than on the 'greens' that you insist kids should use; grass is just not a good surface for sport unless you carry around specialised footwear with you all day.
A good 50 metre stretch of road will allow a decent game of football for anything from 5-a-side to 18-a-side. If numbers are less for whatever reason then a smaller stretch of road will do as long as there is a big wall to use as the goal for 3-and-in or heads and volleys.

Drive carefully.

Not to mention less chance of sliding into a big pile of dog **** that some **** didn't clean up.

sbsquarepants · 16-09-2014 10:43AM

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Sorry if you car drivers don't like it but roads are for football.
Much easier to play there than on the 'greens' that you insist kids should use; grass is just not a good surface for sport unless you carry around specialised footwear with you all day.
A good 50 metre stretch of road will allow a decent game of football for anything from 5-a-side to 18-a-side. If numbers are less for whatever reason then a smaller stretch of road will do as long as there is a big wall to use as the goal for 3-and-in or heads and volleys.

Drive carefully.

I have to say, I can't remember the last time I seen a match being played on the motorway. On the maybe last hundred meters or so of my journey I see it a lot - but then I don't feed the world or cure cancer after I finish work, so I can generally spare those precious seconds. Seems to me there must be a lot of very busy people posting here, how do they find the time I wonder?

sbsquarepants · 16-09-2014 10:46AM

hoodwinked wrote: »

you manage your time better? ?

People can't seem to find a spare minute to slow their cars down from the edge of their estate to their house?
I think you may well have hit the nail on the head there hoodwinked.

hoodwinked · 16-09-2014 10:47AM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

People can't seem to find a spare minute to slow their cars down from the edge of their estate to their house?
I think you may well have hit the nail on the head there hoodwinked.

my argument isn't against slowing down, its about the fact young children shouldn't be there in the first place, or if they are their parents should be standing there at ALL times watching them,

parents who think it's ok to let their child roam free anywhere outside without supervision even at ridiculously young ages.

ThisRegard · 16-09-2014 10:48AM

It's obvious who has no kids on this thread anyway, or those that somehow managed to skip their own childhood going straight from being a baby to a motorist.

sbsquarepants · 16-09-2014 10:50AM

It's really more important when you're a driver to worry about what IS there, rather than what should be. Drivers shouldn't run red lights, horses shouldn't get out of fields, stuff shouldn't fall off trucks and so on.

RobYourBuilder · 16-09-2014 10:50AM

Lads, if kids playing a bitta ball or whatever is keeping you up. Then talk to them. The kids just want to play their game. Kick a ball around. Point out why their playing football outside/near your house effects you.

Work with them. Don't immediately see them as 'enemies'. Through dialogue you will be able to sort something out.

hoodwinked · 16-09-2014 10:55AM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

It's really more important when you're a driver to worry about what IS there, rather than what should be. Drivers shouldn't run red lights, horses shouldn't get out of fields, stuff shouldn't fall off trucks and so on.

and children shouldn't be lying under cars in a strangers driveway or out in the dark for hours on end with parents having no clue where they are, but it happens,

hence why i think responsibility doesn't lie solely with the driver, what about the driver where a two year old (tiny in height) runs out from behind a car straight behind another reversing car? is that really the drivers fault or is it the parents who let their 2 year old roaming the streets?

these are situations i've witnessed happen here, the next day the same children are out again unsupervised amongst the traffic.

why it annoys me though is two reasons

1) there is a designated green area that they don't need to cross a road to get to, AND a tarmac area that was supposed to be a car park for an apartment block not built and thus is empty and perfect to play in as traffic doesn't go through there,

and

2) we have a 5 year old and she never once was put in danger like you see some of the other children getting into because we watch her.

SeanW · 16-09-2014 10:55AM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

People can't seem to find a spare minute to slow their cars down from the edge of their estate to their house?
I think you may well have hit the nail on the head there hoodwinked.

Noone has an issue slowing down in residential areas, within reason.

It's the idea that motorists have to double up as babysitters that is the matter for concern.

Timberrrrrrrr · 16-09-2014 10:58AM

SeanW wrote: »

Noone has an issue slowing down in residential areas, within reason.

It's the idea that motorists have to double up as babysitters that is the matter for concern.

You mean,

Asking motorists to be careful when driving through estates is deemed babysitting in your eyes?

If you knew there were no kids playing football in an estate would you go flying around?

hoodwinked · 16-09-2014 11:00AM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You mean,

Asking motorists to be careful when driving through estates is deemed babysitting in your eyes?

If you knew there were no kids playing football in an estate would you go flying around?

i wouldn't, BUT as i said above i shouldn't have to ask children to get out from under cars, i shouldn't have to ask them to move so i can pull out, i shouldn't have to walk a toddler to a footpath and ask them to stay there while trying to watch the 4 years olds running around, the 7 year old on the scooter flying down the hill and at the same time keep an eye on my 5 year old and making sure the toddler hasn't run around the front of the car again while their parents are exceptionally busy on facebook posting up pictures of what "great" parents they are for "likes".

SeanW · 16-09-2014 11:02AM

If a child is 2 or 3 years old and they're playing hide and seek underneath cars, crawling around cars that are reversing or otherwise using the roads without a flipping clue what they're doing then yes, the parents are delinquents who are using passing motorists as babysitters.

I'm not advocating that anyone "fly around" housing areas, just asking for a bit of common sense and proportionality.

Timberrrrrrrr · 16-09-2014 11:02AM

hoodwinked wrote: »

i wouldn't, BUT as i said above i shouldn't have to ask children to get out from under cars, i shouldn't have to ask them to move so i can pull out, i shouldn't have to walk a toddler to a footpath and ask them to stay there while trying to watch the 4 years olds running around, the 7 year old on the scooter flying down the hill and at the same time keep an eye on my 5 year old.

If you ever find this perfect world will you send directions to the rest of us?

hoodwinked · 16-09-2014 11:04AM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

If you ever find this perfect world will you send directions to the rest of us?

i found it, it's called building a house in the country with quarter of an acre on all sides between us and other parents!

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 16-09-2014 11:06AM

Or the kids who abandon their bikes and scooters in the middle of the road

anncoates · 16-09-2014 11:08AM

I also find that children playing on estates give them a slovenly aura that is detrimental to their intended function as sterile professional boltholes, expertly optimized for punctual motor commuting and estate agent pamphlets should the market continue in buoyancy .

paulbok · 16-09-2014 11:08AM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Well that's great and all but how exactly do you cook, clean and do the general day to day things that running a house entails in a park or on a beach?

If you are licenced to drive a dangerous vehicle, it is YOUR responsibility to ensure that you drive as the conditions demand. If there's kids on the road, slow down, stop if you have to, that's it - end of story, no possible exceptions. And especially if you know in ADVANCE that they'll be there.
If you don't slow down, you are a bad driver and an asshole all rolled into one.

Very much so.

But a car driving at it's minimum of say 5-10kmph and with the best driver reactions in the world will still take a second or 2 to stop.
If a kid runs out from behind a parked car at the wrong time as a car passes, they will get hit and there's nothing the driver will be able to do about it.
This is where it is the parents responsibility to ensure their kids are either supervised or taught how to play on/around the road safely.

To say it's completely up to the driver to ensure no-one gets hit is rubbish. The vast majority of the responsibility lies with the driver, no argument there, but the parents/kids need to also take reasonable care.

Parents & kids also need to remember that there will be drivers that won't slow down, and until self drive cars take over to make sure they do, they need to take precautions, same as they should do in any potentially dangerous situation.

Children : Treating busy street as an area to play

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