LOI 2014 Thread

doncarlos wrote: »

Significant players like; Paul Green, Simon Cox, Sean St Ledger, Darren O'Dea, Greg Cunningham, Conor Sammon? All players that have been called up to Irish squad in last 12 months

I think we would argue though, that the vast majority of those players shouldn't have been in the Ireland setup (yet still all played at a higher level to Towell). The fact that other players were called up who don't belong in international football have played international football isn't a great case for calling Towell up

The squad vs Georgia was alot closer to what should be the international squad (Stokes for Daryl Murphy when fit).

If Towell comes in and establishes himself as a first choice starter at one of the clubs we mentioned like Ipswich, Reading, Derby, then he comes into the discussion, but 1) I don't think he is capable of doing that and 2) with the amount of players we currently have playing at a higher level I don't think O'Neill should be calling up players from our league.

It isn't realistic to expect a player to make the immediate jump from playing Athlone Town, Bray, UCD and even teams like Shamrock Rovers or Limerick every week to playing international football. Our league is just too weak at the moment for players to make the jump into international football, barring really strong exceptional cases of which Towell is not one.

ionadnapokot wrote: »

I would like to point out that there are very few cases of "older" players going from the loi into the national team directly or indirectly, because they have never been given the opportunity.
There is a stigma associated with the loi.
Both Hoolahan (22) and Fahey were the best players on the pitch in their games v Deportvo ('04) and Hertha ('08). That is not me looking at it with tinted glasses. They were clearly good enough.
Both of those players had a minimum 3 seasons in the league behind them when they played those games.
Im not sure if Towell(23) will get a full international cap with the barriers that are in place. As one of the best players in the league, It would be nice if he was afforded the opportunity.

But there aren't many older players going onto better leagues and succeeding either (the 2 we've both mentioned are the 2 as far as I can see). If we had players of that quality in the league, they'd be signed up by clubs in bigger and better leagues (like Hoolahan and Fahey were). That is the dog eat dog nature of football unfortunately.

As it stands the league's only real contribution to international football (and I'm not saying that I think the league has any sort of obligation to contribute to an organisation that contributes very little back) is its ability to provide quality young players that generally get snapped up by clubs abroad when still very young.

CSF wrote: »

As it stands the league's only real contribution to international football (and I'm not saying that I think the league has any sort of obligation to contribute to an organisation that contributes very little back) is its ability to provide quality young players that generally get snapped up by clubs abroad when still very young.

I agree, as it stands that is what happens. But this is fundamentally wrong.
It shouldn't be that because you now play outside of the league, you are now good enough.
Even Fahey and Hollahan who were good enough, weren't given the opportunity.

djpbarry wrote: »

Let’s have a look at the ex-LOI players in the most recent Ireland squad.

• James McClean moved to Sunderland at 22 and made a fairly immediate impact.
• David Forde moved to Cardiff at 28, but didn’t really get anywhere until he moved to Millwall two years later.
• Séamus Coleman signed for Everton at 20 and had a successful loan spell at Blackpool one year later.
• Stephen Ward moved to Wolves at 22, went straight into their first team and won the Championship Player of the Month award one month later.
• David Meyler moved to Sunderland at 19, but struggled to make an impact, mainly due to injuries.
• Stephen Quinn singed for Sheffield Utd at 19, but spent most of his early days at the club out on loan.
• Wes Hoolahan moved across the pond at 24 and, following his brief stint at Livingston, helped Blackpool get promoted to the Championship in his first season.
• Shane Long signed for Reading at 18 and made quite a few first team appearances in his first season (when Reading won the Championship).
• Daryl Murphy moved to Sunderland at 22 and was involved in the first team in the Premiership straight away.
• Kevin Doyle moved to Reading at 21, went straight into the first team and scored 19 goals in his first season.

Based on all of the above, I see no reason why Towell could not make an impact at Championship level, especially with some experience of the SPL behind him.

So...2 of those players older or the same age than Towell, 1 of them a goalkeeper.

You're missing the point to an extent, I'm not saying League of Ireland players can't go make an impact, I'm saying the ones that can get signed young more often than not. Also not all your ages there are correct, Ward for instance was 21.

djpbarry wrote: »

So, forget about the fact that Towell is a far better player now than most of those listed above where when they made the trip over. Let's just focus on the fact that he's a fraction older than most? Really? That's going to make all the difference?!?
You're trying to argue that 23 is too old?

23 is very old in football development terms when you consider at what most age players start. Then you have to remember that he has actually been there at an even younger age and failed (you can make any number of reasons you want for why he failed, he still failed). I'm saying it is very old, not that it is too old. You will find guys that are 27 that make it. The point is that Towell at his age isn't going to get THAT much better (he is still to peak obviously) and I don't think he'd be where he is now if he was ready for it now.

But it isn't impossible, but he definitely should be jumping from LOI to Championship level and see how he gets on there, rather than from LOI to International Football. That would make no sense.

ionadnapokot wrote: »

it would make sense to me.
Encourage loi players. Expose them to higher standars. Improve the players. Promote the league.....etc etc

You're assuming there that the FAI would be even minorly sacrifice the national team at the expense of the league which would never happen ever. If anything it's the league that has to frequently sacrifice for the national team.

ionadnapokot wrote: »

im sorry I don't understand what that means

????

CSF wrote: »

23 is very old in football development terms when you consider at what most age players start.

Most footballers don't peak until they're in their late twenties, so it's reasonable to assume he can still improve a bit.

CSF wrote: »

Then you have to remember that he has actually been there at an even younger age and failed (you can make any number of reasons you want for why he failed, he still failed).

That's pretty irrelevant. There have been plenty of successful players who have suffered rejection at some early stage of their careers.

CSF wrote: »

The point is that Towell at his age isn't going to get THAT much better (he is still to peak obviously)...

None of us really know how much better he can get. He may have already peaked, or he may still be some way off his best. Who knows?

CSF wrote: »

...and I don't think he'd be where he is now if he was ready for it now.

That's the old "if he's so good, then why's he playing in Ireland" argument. Pretty sure I heard people say the same thing about Fahey a few years ago, before he went on to play for Ireland.

CSF wrote: »

But it isn't impossible, but he definitely should be jumping from LOI to Championship level and see how he gets on there, rather than from LOI to International Football. That would make no sense.

To clarify, my argument is that he has the potential to be a good Championship player. I'm not arguing that he should be drafted into the Ireland squad just yet (although it wouldn't have done any harm to give him a run out against Oman, for example, to see how he'd get on).

Pighead wrote: »

Towell challenged himself in Europe this season and didn't look out of place against a decent Hadjuk Split.

Hadjuk are a very poor side.

22 points behind the champions last season, in third place.

Haven't won their own league, basically a two horse race, in ten years.

Corholio wrote: »

Douglas was mostly used as a sitting midfielder, leaning towards the defensive side of things. Towell would go the other way. Defensively he's ok but he wouldn't be as good at it as his attacking side. Second half down here in Cork showed that.

All midfielders 'pass, tackle, defend and attack' at some stage. You know very well what I meant.

One half of a game during a whole season proves your opinion on a player you rarely watch is correct? Defensively he is better than ok. The amount of times he nicks the ball away from the opposition in midfield is unreal. His timing is fantastic. His fitness levels allow him to seamlessly transition from defence to attack in seconds. It's why he's so vital to the team.

ionadnapokot wrote: »

I don't understand what the part in bold means. Or the point your trying to make.
Picking players in the National squad is the choice of the manager. I can see only positives for the players, the league and the club. Ultimately it will also benefit the National team and the FAI itself.

Well the manager is never going to pick token LOI players on his own initiative.

Finn Park 2 is still growing From Finn Harps Schools Facebook

What is the reasoning behind the move of ground by Harps?

overshoot wrote: »

Iv heard 2016 all guns, if they keep up the current rate that's completely realistic. (main stand in pics and pitch only)


Well... Though I hate to admit it... Finn Park is a kip and possibly the worst ground in the league!
And with the road, river, aldi and other builings there is no room to expand or build a proper stand on any side

in saying that il miss it!

I'll miss popping up to the Navenny Grill!