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Caught speeding while under the speed limit?

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  • 01-09-2014 12:07pm
    #1
    IsThisOneFree
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭


    OK, I know that subject sounds a bit contradictory :-) But I'm slightly concerned about something that happened to me last Tuesday evening. Was a few miles East of Roscommon town (heading towards the town) when I encountered a mobile speed camera. There was a van infront of me, and both of us were doing about 80kmph in a 100 zone. As I passed the van, I noticed that the camera Flashed. As far as I know, they only take a picture if you're speeding, right ? But as I said, I was only doing 80kmph; I didn't see it flash as the van infront of me drove past, and obviously I can't have been going any faster than him, as there was only a few cars lengths between us.

    So, what gives ? Am I just going mad ? Or do they sometimes take a pic even if you're not speeding ? Anybody ever encounter this before ? And in the worst case scenario, how would I prove I was only going 80 ?
    Tagged:


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    #2
    IsThisOneFree
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭IsThisOneFree


    OSI wrote: »
    They often flash even when you're not speeding. Part calibration, part posterity.
    Ah OK, fair enough. Although I would have thought for the calibration to be useful, they'd have to have accurate data (ie, my actual speed) to measure it against. Anyway, main thing is no penalty points, which is what I was concerned about. And thanks for responding so quickly


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    #3
    ironclaw
    Registered Users Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    IsThisOneFree wrote: »
    Ah OK, fair enough. Although I would have thought for the calibration to be useful, they'd have to have accurate data (ie, my actual speed) to measure it against. Anyway, main thing is no penalty points, which is what I was concerned about. And thanks for responding so quickly

    Can you post up exactly where you were?

    Its rare for a camera van in this country to flash. Most, if not all, Garda vans are infrared. And GoSafe are entirely infrared. What color was the flash you saw? And describe the van?

    There's a slim possibility you were in a 80km/h zone. They love that because it makes no sense to place a van in a 100km/h zone for the most part. But a 100km/h zone to a lower 80km/h zone is perfect speed van territory.


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    #4
    rameire
    Registered Users Posts: 4,126 ✭✭✭rameire


    it could be a reflection of the light From the camera lense as you pass.
    i notice this all the time as I pass the camera vans.
    it looks like a flash, but is just day light.

    🌞 3.8kwp, 🌞 Split 2.28S, 1.52E. 🌞 Clonee, Dub.🌞



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    #5
    vibe666
    Registered Users Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭vibe666


    i heard a story of a guy who did what you did with a police speed check in the UK and trying to figure out why they flashed him as he was under the speed limit, he went past the camera again and got flashed a 2nd time. decidedly pissed off at this, he drove up to them and asked why they kept flashing him and it turned out they'd noticed he wasn't wearing his seatbelt. :pac:

    might just be an urban legend, but you never know! :D


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    #6
    Outkast_IRE
    Registered Users Posts: 7,515 ✭✭✭Outkast_IRE


    I drive past an average of 4 or 5 speed vans a week, i would often see what i would describe as a shutter flick shut on the lens for a second even though i would be under the limit. I have never seen one flash i assume they dont.


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    #7
    IsThisOneFree
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭IsThisOneFree


    ironclaw wrote: »
    Can you post up exactly where you were?
    I can't seem to get the exact location from google maps, but if you put in 53.610827,-8.133659 and fact North West, you'll see a bus parked on the left hand side of the road. That's where the van was parked (roughly)
    What color was the flash you saw? And describe the van?
    The flash was white, and when it went off I could see the shape of something inside, which I presumed to be the camera ... seemed to look something similar to a mobile solar panel from the brief second I could see it. The van was similar to the van in the first post of this thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056091811 - although I thought the side of the van looked more decorated[/QUOTE]
    There's a slim possibility you were in a 80km/h zone. They love that because it makes no sense to place a van in a 100km/h zone for the most part. But a 100km/h zone to a lower 80km/h zone is perfect speed van territory.
    Very true, I could have been in an 80 zone ... going back over the road signage on google maps, the nearest speed limit indicator I could find said 100. Granted google maps aren't up to date, so can't be relied on either. But even if it was an 80 zone, this wouldn't warrant a speeding ticket ... plus I believe the 10% rule would have to apply, because from what I understand, these cameras are not 100% accurate. Also, it didn't flash when the van infront of me passed (from what I could see), and I could say with a reasonable degree of confidence that we were going roughly the same speed.

    I don't think this was reflection from the sun, as I was headed northwest [and the back of the van was facing south east], and it was evening time. And I feel that the light was far too white to have been natural light.

    I'm a stickler for wearing my seatbelt, so I know it can't have been that :)

    What exactly do you mean by a shutter flick shut Outkast_IRE ? Can't quiet visualise it myself, although if I was pushed, I wouldn't use those words to describe it.


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    #8
    mikeecho
    Registered Users Posts: 5,075 ✭✭✭mikeecho


    IsThisOneFree wrote: »
    .......... But even if it was an 80 zone, this wouldn't warrant a speeding ticket ... plus I believe the 10% rule would have to apply, because from what I understand, these cameras are not 100% accurate....... .


    Please tell us more about this 10% rule. :rolleyes:


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    #9
    IsThisOneFree
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭IsThisOneFree


    mikeecho wrote: »
    Please tell us more about this 10% rule. :rolleyes:
    I knew saying that would lead the thread off on a tangent .... and I'm sure there's plenty of discussions on here about it if I were to bother checking. From what I understand, no speed detection systems or speedometers are 100% accurate, so there is a tolerance of 10% of the speed they clocked you at, because of the potential skew. I'm not (as many do) suggesting that this allows you to go 10% above the advertised speed limit.

    In any case it's irrelevant here because, even if I were in an 80kmph zone, I was travelling ~80kmph


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    #10
    mikeecho
    Registered Users Posts: 5,075 ✭✭✭mikeecho


    IsThisOneFree wrote: »
    I knew saying that would lead the thread off on a tangent .... and I'm sure there's plenty of discussions on here about it if I were to bother checking. From what I understand, no speed detection systems or speedometers are 100% accurate, so there is a tolerance of 10% of the speed they clocked you at, because of the potential skew. I'm not (as many do) suggesting that this allows you to go 10% above the advertised speed limit.

    In any case it's irrelevant here because, even if I were in an 80kmph zone, I was travelling ~80kmph

    Look, you haven't actually received a ticket.
    and The vans dont give a visible flash,
    (at night time you can sometimes see a very faint light from the ir flash)

    bit of a nonthread really


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    #11
    IsThisOneFree
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭IsThisOneFree


    mikeecho wrote: »
    Look, you haven't actually received a ticket
    Nope you're right, I haven't ... but there's only been 3 working days since it happened (as I haven't checked my mail yet today). I was only responding to your comment


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    #12
    Kop On
    Registered Users Posts: 173 ✭✭Kop On


    Since when do the mobile speed vans not flash?

    I with a friend when he was caught doing 60Kph in a 50Kph zone by a mobile Garda van and there was a flash. I couldn't have missed it as I was sitting in the passenger seat and it was very obvious he'd been caught, it was in broad daylight but the flash was still visible. Granted that was in 2011, so maybe things have changed since then.


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    #13
    Grolschevik
    Registered Users Posts: 3,472 ✭✭✭Grolschevik


    Yep. I was caught three years ago by a very visible flash in daylight hours. Don't know if it was a garda van or a Go Safe, but I saw the flash and I got the points.


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    #14
    bmstuff
    Registered Users Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭bmstuff


    vibe666 wrote: »
    i heard a story of a guy who did what you did with a police speed check in the UK and trying to figure out why they flashed him as he was under the speed limit, he went past the camera again and got flashed a 2nd time. decidedly pissed off at this, he drove up to them and asked why they kept flashing him and it turned out they'd noticed he wasn't wearing his seatbelt. :pac:

    might just be an urban legend, but you never know! :D


    They Only flash the back of a vehicle in the uk as far as I know.


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    #15
    ironclaw
    Registered Users Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    As myself and others have said on numerous, numerous threads:

    GoSafe: No visible flash. Very faint red / orange glow, particularly at night. Easily spotted on DVRs.

    Garda: Yes, some do still flash white both day and night. However, most have been converted / swapped out and no longer flash. If they do flash, they'll pretty much take your cornea's out and you'll know all about it.

    Seeing or not seeing a flash is by no means an indication of if you have been caught. GoSafe and Garda have been known to flash all cars passing, mostly the Infrared systems and you can see it clearly on DVR. There is another phenomenon as mentioned earlier in this thread where you headlights / sunlight hit the camera / flash unit / lens and you get a reflection, resembling a flash from the rear of the van.

    Vans can take a photo of a car coming towards or going away from the rear doors of the van only.

    As regards the '10% rule' thats on your side. Your speedo will generally overread by 5 to 10%. So, at 80km/h on your speedo, your probably doing closer to 75km/h in reality. All speed detection equipment in the country is accurate to about +/- 3km/h on a really bad day. Its generally accepted you will be done for inexcess of 3km/h over the limit. So, putting it all together, to be done in a 80km/h zone, your speedo would be showing north of 90km/h i.e. No excuses.

    Feel free to copy and paste this in other threads. Its getting seriously annoying that people just don't search these answers.


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    #16
    dougie-lampkin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 677 ✭✭✭dougie-lampkin


    ironclaw wrote: »
    As myself and others have said on numerous, numerous threads:

    GoSafe: No visible flash. Very faint red / orange glow, particularly at night. Easily spotted on DVRs.

    Not so. Some of the GoSafe vans have had a white LED strip installed over the rear doors that flashes when you come close. It's as bright as a sidelight, definitely not a flash. Others seem to have had orange roof beacons installed, and others park with the sidelights/hazards on. Possibly too many rear end shunts on dark vans?

    I've been flashed by fixed cameras outside the jurisdiction and there is no mistaking them for an IR glow. Even during the daytime it leaves you briefly blind :eek:


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    #17
    ironclaw
    Registered Users Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    dougie-lampkin wrote: »
    Not so. Some of the GoSafe vans have had a white LED strip installed over the rear doors that flashes when you come close. It's as bright as a sidelight, definitely not a flash. Others seem to have had orange roof beacons installed, and others park with the sidelights/hazards on. Possibly too many rear end shunts on dark vans?

    I've yet to see this myself hence my omission of it in my text. I generally doubt 99% of what is posted here except by certain poster whom I know would have a decent level of knowledge of the tech in place on Irish roads.

    You are quite right though, this has been reported and my guess as you rightly said is collision avoidance.


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    #18
    iwishihadaname
    Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭iwishihadaname


    ironclaw wrote: »
    As regards the '10% rule' thats on your side. Your speedo will generally overread by 5 to 10%. So, at 80km/h on your speedo, your probably doing closer to 75km/h in reality. All speed detection equipment in the country is accurate to about +/- 3km/h on a really bad day. Its generally accepted you will be done for inexcess of 3km/h over the limit. So, putting it all together, to be done in a 80km/h zone, your speedo would be showing north of 90km/h i.e. No excuses.

    Feel free to copy and paste this in other threads. Its getting seriously annoying that people just don't search these answers.

    Would your GPS overread by 5-10%? Think I might have been caught doing 125km on the motorway yesterday. Bit worried because I'm going abroad for 2 months on Saturday and the letter won't arrive till next week, if at all.


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    #19
    Senecio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 971 ✭✭✭Senecio


    iwishihadaname wrote: »
    Would your GPS overread by 5-10%? Think I might have been caught doing 125km on the motorway yesterday. Bit worried because I'm going abroad for 2 months on Saturday and the letter won't arrive till next week, if at all.

    GPS are typically very accurate, it's the speedo that is normally calibrated on the high side.


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    #20
    ironclaw
    Registered Users Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    iwishihadaname wrote: »
    Would your GPS overread by 5-10%? Think I might have been caught doing 125km on the motorway yesterday. Bit worried because I'm going abroad for 2 months on Saturday and the letter won't arrive till next week, if at all.

    No, GPS is dead accurate. So 125km/h on the GPS will be 124/126 at most. The error would be in rounding, either way, you are over. And your speedo would have been showing 130+, so you would have known you were over.


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    #21
    iwishihadaname
    Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭iwishihadaname


    ironclaw wrote: »
    No, GPS is dead accurate. So 125km/h on the GPS will be 124/126 at most. The error would be in rounding, either way, you are over. And your speedo would have been showing 130+, so you would have known you were over.

    My speedo and GPS always have the same reading, which was why I was wondering were both wrong. Is it possible to ring the RSA about possible penalty points? I know I was in the wrong either way, but I won't be in the country to pay the fine so am worried about a District Court summons.


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    #22
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,238 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    iwishihadaname wrote: »
    My speedo and GPS always have the same reading, which was why I was wondering were both wrong. Is it possible to ring the RSA about possible penalty points? I know I was in the wrong either way, but I won't be in the country to pay the fine so am worried about a District Court summons.

    To the best of my knowledge the points arent actually applied until you pay the fine, so ringing in advance most likely wont show anything on the system.

    Maybe contact the Gardai and see what they advise?

    FWIW I doubt you will be done for 125km/h on a motorway.


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    #23
    yop
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional West Moderators Posts: 16,722 Mod ✭✭✭✭yop


    I got flashed by a van at that exact spot maybe 2 years ago and didn't get a ticket. I was doing ROUGHLY 102/104kmph in a 100kmph zone.


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    #24
    ironclaw
    Registered Users Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    OSI wrote: »
    Been a while since I drove anything that showed anymore than 1/2kmh discrepancy on the speedo before you start hitting instant ban speeds.

    Yeah, depends on the make and model. I generally find anything a little more exotic or performance based is usually accurate. Anything American is spot on as I assume its a legal requirement over there.


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    #25
    antodeco
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 13,436 ✭✭✭✭antodeco


    My car has the opposite allowance! I did a GPS calibration on it, and when my speedo is saying 60mph, the GPS is saying 72mph. I wondered why I was going quicker than everyone else for ages, so I decided to check it! Thankfully I did, and thankfully its not a car I drive a huge amount!


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    #26
    ironclaw
    Registered Users Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    antodeco wrote: »
    My car has the opposite allowance! I did a GPS calibration on it, and when my speedo is saying 60mph, the GPS is saying 72mph. I wondered why I was going quicker than everyone else for ages, so I decided to check it! Thankfully I did, and thankfully its not a car I drive a huge amount!

    I'm guessing you have non standard tyres on the car?


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    #27
    IsThisOneFree
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭IsThisOneFree


    yop wrote: »
    I got flashed by a van at that exact spot maybe 2 years ago and didn't get a ticket. I was doing ROUGHLY 102/104kmph in a 100kmph zone.
    Interesting ... wonder what their fascination is in Roscommon with flashing cars that aren't speeding then ! One other theory I did come up with myself was that possibly it was flashing a car on the other side of the road. I didn't notice if there was a car passing me at the time ... but it's the only plausible explanation I can think of to be honest. Anyway, thanks for the info ... good to know :)


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    #28
    yop
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional West Moderators Posts: 16,722 Mod ✭✭✭✭yop


    IsThisOneFree wrote: »
    Interesting ... wonder what their fascination is in Roscommon with flashing cars that aren't speeding then ! One other theory I did come up with myself was that possibly it was flashing a car on the other side of the road. I didn't notice if there was a car passing me at the time ... but it's the only plausible explanation I can think of to be honest. Anyway, thanks for the info ... good to know :)

    There was no car near me, it was around 7am and pitch dark. Even my passenger saw it. Was strange, but I was delighted not to get a ticket! :D


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    #29
    IsThisOneFree
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭IsThisOneFree


    Well, that rules out my theory then !! Thanks for the reply, fingers crossed I won't get one either then (it's been 2 weeks so far, but I've heard it can take up to 3 to get the ticket)


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    #30
    ironclaw
    Registered Users Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    IsThisOneFree wrote: »
    Well, that rules out my theory then !! Thanks for the reply, fingers crossed I won't get one either then (it's been 2 weeks so far, but I've heard it can take up to 3 to get the ticket)

    Theoretically it can take 6 months. I'd consider yourself safe after 6 weeks if it was me.


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    #31
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    Next time park in behind them.
    Nothing illegal about it.

    They are parking in public parking spaces, church car parks, in front of schools, entrances to fields, outside houses


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