School patronage

Cabaal wrote: »

How many schools changed patronage in the 10-15 years before him?

A) changing 0.06% of schools is still epic fail even if it is two more schools than done previously.
Changing patronage does nothing towards the proper goal of establishing an openly acknowleged state-run school system (instead of the current system where the state de facto runs the schools and provides all the funding yet defers to the religious at every hands turn) which is based on a secular system of education. To become a school patron in Ireland one must have a religious agenda in education. That is no improvement.

Ruari Quinn, history will see him as long on mealy-mouthed hand wringing (to appeal to his constituents) but short on actions to improve the situation (because in reality he is as conservative and as tied to the idea of "holy catholic Ireland" as the next pol).

Ruairi could have done far more than he did. The state mandate the curriculum and pay the bills so the biggest and probably easiest change away from religion could (and still can) be made without any faffing about with surveys on patronage and uniforms. He was a fan of the sound bites.


If the government really want to do something in relation to religion in school then the following could be easily mandated and implemented
1. Reduction of the time allocated to religion in school
2. A compulsory broad ranging, multi- denominational religious syllabus including atheism put in place (similar to the current junior cert but without the options for heavy emphasis on Catholicism)
3. A mandatory policy whereby religious instruction such as confirmation/communion is permitted to be facilitated in the school but not as part of the hours of the school day. E.g. Schools are permitted to run an extra hour at the end of the day but not to take that hour out of the teaching time.
4. (This may be done already?!) The removal of the allowance for schools to discriminate on religious grounds in admittance policies

All of this, particularly the first two would be broadly welcomed by Catholics and other religious/atheism as taking a huge step towards tolerance and away from religious indoctrination. Allowing the classes to be added to the end of the school day would mean parents aren't being asked to drag children to other events to prepare them for communion etc (whether they should have to make the effort is another debate entirely!). The church may not particularly like it but I think they would lose the PR battle in the end. While I am Roman Catholic I want my children to understand that all belief systems including none is completely permissible. I still regret that my own schooling taught me literally nothing about the other main world religions

One small but important change that Jan or any Minister could make today would be to give the Board of Management control over recruitment of new teachers, instead of the Patron/Chairperson. At primary level today, the Patron/Chairperson controls recruitment - selecting the interview panel and setting the criteria. The Board of Management has literally a rubber-stamping role set out in the Departmental guidelines. They can only overrule the selection panel if they have information not known to the selection panel.

And yet, the Board is legally the employer. If the Minister expects Boards to actually lead, it has to give them control.

I had some experience in a similar situation where kids attending a VEC school were deemed ineligible for places on the bus because they were not attending a RC school was was slightly closer (about 1km in the difference) to where they lived.

So the decision is made by the bus company, based on the Dept of Ed rule which state that transport should be to "the nearest school having regard to ethos and language".

However the current departmental interpretation of this rule is that for the purposes of this word "ethos" there are only three basic categories of school; Normal school, Gaelscoil, and Protestant School.

The School Transport Appeals Board rejected an appeal re the VEC school kids last year saying

STAB wrote:

"In relation to school transport provision, ethos relates to religious ethos and is in the context of provision for minority religions"

This second part (the context) the appeals board have just pulled out of their ass, but what can you do when up against this kind of attitude? An appeal is the end of the road. In the event, the kids were allowed onto the existing bus route to the VEC school on a temporary "concessionary" basis. Probably only because they had kicked up a fuss. So an Irish solution to an Irish problem then.

I can see the problem for Dept of Ed and the Bus companies though. As more and more patrons emerge, each with a different ethos, more and more buses would have to be called into service, all going in different directions. Thence lies madness.

Compare to the situation in the USA. State schools are secular. State provides buses to the schools. Kids get on the bus at the nearest point to their house. Simple.

Actually the rural ones aren't the issue as they've got to provide coverage in low density areas too.

The most shocking bit is the number or schools duplicated in cities and towns.

It's also divided by gender too in a lot of cases.

Each duplication is another set of management and building overheads pulling resources out that could fund smaller class sizes, rural schools, SNAs, sports facilities, science and art facilities, psychological supports etc.


You can't do these things logically in Ireland though. The vested interests aka Social Partners all need to get involved and extract maximum jobs for the boys and girls while ensuring their agenda gets imposed on the population too.

It's Ireland... We're loaded and can afford it.

Oh wait...