The Jobbridge Scandal

DARK-KNIGHT · 16-08-2014 05:35PM

gavinhenson wrote: »

Couldn't agree more. Too many lazy, down-and-outs want everything handed to them. There is a real mentality of entitlement among the youth of today, and it physically disgusts me.

The attitude you are portraying towards those less fortunate than yourself physically disgusts me.

DARK-KNIGHT · 16-08-2014 05:46PM

So if we take a 39 hour week employers are cutting employment costs from minimum wage at least to 1.28 per hour. Now just think about that for a minute.

Disgraceful treatment of people.

Another job I was offered paying a measly 350 per week and would include a 45 minute drive to and from work every day informed me 4 days ago they were taking someone via jobsbridge and I could have the job if I went through the scheme. 2 kids remember and the company owner driving a 142 reg range rover sport and has a house in Terenure. This same guy I delivered to for years as well and he knows my kids and wife too. If I could emigrate I would.

So starting a diploma course in 2 weeks to try make a better life in 2-3 years time.

Employers should be ****ing ashamed of themselves for taking advantage of people with this

evolving_doors · 16-08-2014 06:03PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Really? Dozens of exploitation schemes for every decent scheme? I highly doubt those numbers and would love to see some substance behind those claims.

My advice to a young unemployed person who can't find a scheme that will give them experience in their chosen field is to keep looking on the site, if after a while you still can't find anything useful consider going back to college to either retrain in another field or get yourself more qualifications in your chosen field. If you can't afford college get a menial job to tie you over until you either get a better job or can afford college.

Yer a gas man, go back to college! Youll love this btw (we all love teachers these days with their 3months holidays)...

knockconan National School , Emyvale, Co. Monaghan... looking for FULLY QUALIFIED teacher to take up a FULL TIME teaching post... Term 9 months...
pay? .... you guessed it Dole+50 quid on jobbridge... Apparently they did this last year too...

you must be delighted.

DARK-KNIGHT · 16-08-2014 06:31PM

Armelodie wrote: »

Yer a gas man, go back to college! Youll love this btw (we all love teachers these days with their 3months holidays)...

knockconan National School , Emyvale, Co. Monaghan... looking for FULLY QUALIFIED teacher to take up a FULL TIME teaching post... Term 9 months...
pay? .... you guessed it Dole+50 quid on jobbridge... Apparently they did this last year too...

you must be delighted.

So now schools are bleeding qualified teachers?? So long term this country will have a shortage of teachers after young graduates piss off because they are being taken advantage of..

Bruton are you watching this.....

evolving_doors · 16-08-2014 06:53PM

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

So now schools are bleeding qualified teachers?? So long term this country will have a shortage of teachers after young graduates piss off because they are being taken advantage of..

Bruton are you watching this.....

Sad thing is they'll get a tonne of applications for it . I wonder will they keep on the teacher after next June....like **** they will
I informed the INTO last week ... automated response... nothing to do with them I suppose.

dxhound2005 · 16-08-2014 06:57PM

Armelodie wrote: »

Yer a gas man, go back to college! Youll love this btw (we all love teachers these days with their 3months holidays)...

knockconan National School , Emyvale, Co. Monaghan... looking for FULLY QUALIFIED teacher to take up a FULL TIME teaching post... Term 9 months...
pay? .... you guessed it Dole+50 quid on jobbridge... Apparently they did this last year too...

you must be delighted.

Jobbridge looking for four teachers is hardly going to spell the end of the education system.

http://intern.jobbridge.ie/Default.aspx?q=sjDArutve/3w53BLzNXooesjqRrGoX95L6zX310XQ+ZkPrjRXZfgnq9aCED/CBaEB7/EYciwt/RC+LOlNxs8UD9LAjj7M2Lo3u/cRXi0yliyP7RK7hJYFN5Gsp8+RANXSYBeOqEYtCqemWWEJdAziz9+vtGCYaMQMuy5jzXVd0sfV26ZiZV1AtDLuiMMZ4YdvvqI0PRMQpyMQ//ulCkhW+l4iceCn7/nTqJSqGeecF0WlrhRwEk5eHgVEeU55JZ3FjlbfsY6x8Zr8mG5jXdwAq4ciytM00z1ozmuvCrC6AlDERc1/IhNXmPFQtPl5ya2CldENQJlbk+Uzqd7NL6es1Vlm8iAv1ZYTpNiFYZMVmfCUke9XADAB0JIV5HUFceCW11JI5imM+Y=

If I was a fully qualified teacher coming out of teacher training, who never got to actually teach in a school I might decide to go in for this. Especially if I was local to the area and it wouldn't cost much for travelling. It would be better getting €50 on top of the dole for 30 hours work and getting the experience than sitting at home. Or I might just not bother, I would still get the dole.

The last time that someone made the great revelation here that schools are using Jobbridge that one from Co Meath was the subject of the outrage. It is still not filled after a month.

amacca · 16-08-2014 07:16PM

Armelodie wrote: »

Sad thing is they'll get a tonne of applications for it . I wonder will they keep on the teacher after next June....like **** they will
I informed the INTO last week ... automated response... nothing to do with them I suppose.

The manager, person in charge in that school should be ashamed of themselves imo

I wonder if they would have liked prospects like that facing them back when they qualified….no integrity or respect for their own profession, no standards….unless there are some unseen mitigating factors I'd have even lower opinions of them and what I think should be done to them that probably shouldn't be voiced in a public forum….disrespectful or maybe just brainless when it comes to potential longterm implications (although I doubt that, they probably won't suffer any of the potential long term consequences)……I really hope they don't get away with it or theres a cost to doing business that way….if there is not there should be.

between 4-6 years of your life gone and the cost of professional qualifications + opportunity cost of the time spent doing them and then be an intern on the dole.

Talk about a race to the bottom

dxhound2005 · 16-08-2014 07:29PM

amacca wrote: »

The manager, person in charge in that school should be ashamed of themselves imo

I wonder if they would have liked prospects like that facing them back when they qualified….no integrity or respect for their own profession, no standards….unless there are some unseen mitigating factors I'd have even lower opinions of them and what I should be done to them that probably shouldn't be voiced in a public forum….scum or brainless when it comes to longterm implications……I really hope they don't get away with it or theres a cost to doing business that way….if there is not there should be.

between 4-6 years of your life gone and the cost of professional qualifications + opportunity cost of the time spent doing them and then be an intern on the dole.

Talk about a race to the bottom

This is the code of practice under which schools can participate in Jobbridge.

The Department of Education and Skills has advised schools that they may participate in theJobBridge scheme if they wish, that the scheme may not be used to displace existing staff or to fill a current vacancy, but any positions may be offered to newly qualified teachers, allowing them to complete the probationary process and become fully registered with the Teaching Council.

Would that satisfy the definition of your "unseen" mitigating factors?

amacca · 16-08-2014 07:41PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

This is the code of practice under which schools can participate in Jobbridge.

The Department of Education and Skills has advised schools that they may participate in theJobBridge scheme if they wish, that the scheme may not be used to displace existing staff or to fill a current vacancy, but any positions may be offered to newly qualified teachers, allowing them to complete the probationary process and become fully registered with the Teaching Council.

Would that satisfy the definition of your "unseen" mitigating factors?

Not really tbh……maybe it takes the sting out of it a bit……but according to above, department has advised that they may participate if they wish……..they shouldn't wish imo

I also view the scheme as just the thin edge of the wedge tbh

what positions would they be occupying that a qualified teacher entitled to a full wage wouldn't be suitable for? if newly qualified are completing a probationary process then that surely means they are teaching kids in a classroom - why shouldn't a teacher get a full wage for doing this? It may not displace existing staff (which is better than nothing) but it is displacing an actual fully paid job that would have existed were it not for the scheme surely?

The wording in that statement seems to be a bit of a fudge/intentional trickery

What is the difference between a "vacancy" and a "position" I wonder?

If the intern is assisting in the classroom and there are the same number of fully paid positions as there would have been for the number of students then perhaps I'm wrong (although I'd still have reservations about it) if there are less fully paid teaching jobs for qualified graduates as a result of a scheme like this then imo the factors aren't mitigating enough and I'll stick to my initial position.

happywithlife · 16-08-2014 07:54PM

Just found out today my local primary had a jobsbridge advertised for a classroom assistant for their junior infant class - they have an exceptionally large class starting in sept and applied for, were denied, appealed and failed to get an additional teacher in order to split the class. I assume this is their plan c
It's a disgrace that the PTR was allowed to slide upwards in recent years giving rise to this scenario to begin with . I presume this jobsbridge position whilst not filling a "current vacancy" gov policy is preventing said position arising in the first instance

evolving_doors · 16-08-2014 07:57PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Jobbridge looking for four teachers is hardly going to spell the end of the education system.

http://intern.jobbridge.ie/Default.aspx?q=sjDArutve/3w53BLzNXooesjqRrGoX95L6zX310XQ+ZkPrjRXZfgnq9aCED/CBaEB7/EYciwt/RC+LOlNxs8UD9LAjj7M2Lo3u/cRXi0yliyP7RK7hJYFN5Gsp8+RANXSYBeOqEYtCqemWWEJdAziz9+vtGCYaMQMuy5jzXVd0sfV26ZiZV1AtDLuiMMZ4YdvvqI0PRMQpyMQ//ulCkhW+l4iceCn7/nTqJSqGeecF0WlrhRwEk5eHgVEeU55JZ3FjlbfsY6x8Zr8mG5jXdwAq4ciytM00z1ozmuvCrC6AlDERc1/IhNXmPFQtPl5ya2CldENQJlbk+Uzqd7NL6es1Vlm8iAv1ZYTpNiFYZMVmfCUke9XADAB0JIV5HUFceCW11JI5imM+Y=

If I was a fully qualified teacher coming out of teacher training, who never got to actually teach in a school I might decide to go in for this. Especially if I was local to the area and it wouldn't cost much for travelling. It would be better getting €50 on top of the dole for 30 hours work and getting the experience than sitting at home. Or I might just not bother, I would still get the dole.

The last time that someone made the great revelation here that schools are using Jobbridge that one from Co Meath was the subject of the outrage. It is still not filled after a month.

Ya sure, nothing wrong with doing a full days qualified professional job and getting dole... because youre deaperate... jeez if it was a busdriver or hospital porter tools would be downed in a heartbeat...but because people are deaperate, its ok to pay minimum wage

Nurses on jobbridge, doctors on jobbridge, guards on jobbridge.... lets just put the whole country on jobbridge, and farm out the running of it to some private firm to save even more money.

dxhound2005 · 16-08-2014 08:03PM

Armelodie wrote: »

Ya sure, nothing wrong with doing a full days qualified professional job and getting dole... because youre deaperate... jeez if it was a busdriver or hospital porter tools would be downed in a heartbeat...but because people are deaperate, its ok to pay minimum wage

Nurses on jobbridge, doctors on jobbridge, guards on jobbridge.... lets just put the whole country on jobbridge, and farm out the running of it to some private firm to save even more money.

You can't put the whole country on Jobbridge. It is limited to 8,500 places at any given time. I didn't look it up but I suspect that Gardai are not being recruited through Jobbridge.

evolving_doors · 16-08-2014 08:09PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

This is the code of practice under which schools can participate in Jobbridge.

The Department of Education and Skills has advised schools that they may participate in theJobBridge scheme if they wish, that the scheme may not be used to displace existing staff or to fill a current vacancy, but any positions may be offered to newly qualified teachers, allowing them to complete the probationary process and become fully registered with the Teaching council

Would that satisfy the definition of your "unseen" mitigating factors?

Thats great.. to become fully registered with the teaching council... to what end ? to go back on the dole again? (and get some other desperate person the following year into the same school again)... Isnt that kind of them ... Ah well, at least thats one teacher out of a couple of thousand that will get their registration number.

Would it be fair if another teacher also just out of the same course got a full time job with full pay and conditions working next door to their classmate with same duties and responsibilities but on jobbridge? Youl'd probably see nothing wrong with it.

God help someone trying to keep a family while doing full time teaching for the dole. It's disgusting.

evolving_doors · 16-08-2014 08:13PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

You can't put the whole country on Jobbridge. It is limited to 8,500 places at any given time. I didn't look it up but I suspect that Gardai are not being recruited through Jobbridge.

Why not? Shur theyd be getting experience and a real badge number... think of all the extra guards we'd have...(forget about the fact that theyd be let go in a years time...cutbacks and all that you know!)

Would you be against it?

evolving_doors · 16-08-2014 08:22PM

happywithlife wrote: »

Just found out today my local primary had a jobsbridge advertised for a classroom assistant for their junior infant class - they have an exceptionally large class starting in sept and applied for, were denied, appealed and failed to get an additional teacher in order to split the class. I assume this is their plan c
It's a disgrace that the PTR was allowed to slide upwards in recent years giving rise to this scenario to begin with . I presume this jobsbridge position whilst not filling a "current vacancy" gov policy is preventing said position arising in the first instance

So now they split the class.
Teacher 1 in Rang a haon (dole+50 , gluck and thanks in June, bring in the next slave)
Teacher 2 in Rang a dó ( full pay,pension,increment,allowances,tenure... and wondering if this is morally right)

Nope , nothing wrong there according to some of the folk on here.. and the principal, and the Bord of Management, and the parents council, and the Union....

I wonder what the kids would say?

dxhound2005 · 16-08-2014 08:29PM

I just had a quick look at CSO figures. Education is doing OK in the jobs stats. Up from 142,000 in 2007 to 150,000 last year. Probably to do with the increasing population due to immigration and higher birthrate.

http://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/labourmarket/principalstatistics/

But don't let that get in the way of a good moan about how Jobbridge is the end of the world for teachers.

conorh91 · 16-08-2014 08:49PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I just had a quick look at CSO figures. Education is doing OK in the jobs stats. Up from 142,000 in 2007 to 150,000 last year. Probably to do with the increasing population due to immigration and higher birthrate.

http://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/labourmarket/principalstatistics/

But don't let that get in the way of a good moan about how Jobbridge is the end of the world for teachers.

Since those are QNHS figures, they include workers who are in receipt of welfare, i.e. job bridge, part-time dole, etc.

evolving_doors · 16-08-2014 09:12PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I just had a quick look at CSO figures. Education is doing OK in the jobs stats. Up from 142,000 in 2007 to 150,000 last year. Probably to do with the increasing population due to immigration and higher birthrate.

http://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/labourmarket/principalstatistics/

But don't let that get in the way of a good moan about how Jobbridge is the end of the world for teachers.

You just refuted your first statement with your second!

And yes ' and as conorh91 pointed out these are not full time positions. Maybe you are unaware of what's going on... I'll let you know. Mass exodus of full time teachers 2008 onwards due to changes in pensions...what happens the jobs? Split into 2 or more part time posts...can you see beneath the stats now? {And as you said there was ,and still is an increase in student numbers}

But hey, don't let that get in the way of your pontifications on how ungreatful people are for being treated like slaves, compared to their colleagues next door.

dxhound2005 · 16-08-2014 09:26PM

Armelodie wrote: »

You just refuted your first statement with your second!

And yes ' and as conorh91 pointed out these are not full time positions. Maybe you are unaware of what's going on... I'll let you know. Mass exodus of full time teachers 2008 onwards due to changes in pensions...what happens the jobs? Split into 2 or more part time posts...can you see beneath the stats now? {And as you said there was ,and still is an increase in student numbers}

But hey, don't let that get in the way of your pontifications on how ungreatful people are for being treated like slaves, compared to their colleagues next door.

So how many full time teachers were there before the "mass exodus" and how many are there now?

Iwasfrozen · 16-08-2014 09:58PM

Armelodie wrote: »

Yer a gas man, go back to college! Youll love this btw (we all love teachers these days with their 3months holidays)...

knockconan National School , Emyvale, Co. Monaghan... looking for FULLY QUALIFIED teacher to take up a FULL TIME teaching post... Term 9 months...
pay? .... you guessed it Dole+50 quid on jobbridge... Apparently they did this last year too...

you must be delighted.

So basically the state is paying this teacher 5.4k a year + jobseekers for the remaining 3 months instead of 30k a year for the exact same amount of work?

Sounds good, if every teacher were on jobbridge taxpayers would save millions!

amacca · 16-08-2014 09:58PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

So how many full time teachers were there before the "mass exodus" and how many are there now?

Presumably the number there would have been given the new PTR and the current student population minus the number of those jobs that have been replaced by partial hours part-time roles or job-bridge slaves….I'd be interested to know those numbers myself, I suspect if you take the student population into account there are a lot less full time teachers than there used to be, but that is only speculation.

I suspect a lot of the hours have been split to give new entrants less than full hours and therefore have more staff that can be subtly bullied into doing lots more extra curricular/work for free in the hope they'll be thrown a bone the year after….on the face of it its a good plan if you have a certain mentality but there will ultimately be long term consequences for the education system if its allowed continue l…..I'm thinking not just consequences for teachers btw

amacca · 16-08-2014 10:06PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

So basically the state is paying this teacher 5.4k a year + jobseekers for the remaining 3 months instead of 30k a year for the exact same amount of work?

Sounds good, if every teacher were on jobbridge taxpayers would save millions!

Indeed, now just think of the money you could save if you applied it to politicians….I'd love to see a job-bridge internship go up for junior minister for something or other

But why stop there? why not extend it to anything and everything, do you work? I'm sure we could have a job bridge thingy for your job too……the state would save billions, they could spend it on consultants, inspectors and spin doctors and a plethora of vote buying exercises…maybe they could buy some votes before elections by bringing back "real jobs" (or at least real wages) in quangos for selected citizens that might have a bit of "pull"

Ah shur **** it, who needs standards anymore……..

Iwasfrozen · 16-08-2014 10:22PM

amacca wrote: »

Indeed, now just think of the money you could save if you applied it to politicians….I'd love to see a job-bridge internship go up for junior minister for something or other

But why stop there? why not extend it to anything and everything, do you work? I'm sure we could have a job bridge thingy for your job too……the state would save billions, they could spend it on consultants, inspectors and spin doctors and a plethora of vote buying exercises…maybe they could buy some votes before elections by bringing back "real jobs" (or at least real wages) in quangos for selected citizens that might have a bit of "pull"

Ah shur **** it, who needs standards anymore……..

That logic only applies to state employees.

Look whatever about any other profession the teaching profession is hugely oversubscribed. That's why so many graduates can't find a full time job and one of the reasons I decided not to go down that career path (the main one being I can't abide teenagers).

Graduates are going to continue to find it hard to find a job until wages fall enough to make the job less attractive to potential entrants. In the meantime graduates should work on getting their head above the crowd any way they can and frankly 9 months experience is a good way to do that. Were I a newly graduated unemployed teacher I'd be snapping up that opportunity, not turning my nose up at it.

So what if it's only 150 a week? You think you're entitled to more than 150 a week just because you went to college? The experience is worth far more than money at this stage in your career, the 150 is icing on the cake...

pharmaton · 16-08-2014 10:33PM

wish ye would just stfu about job bridge, just píss or get off the pot already. if you don't want to do one, then fcuking don't, it really is that simple. There are plenty of people who are doing them who don't have that problem and if it's biting ye that there are people willing to avail of the system then good fcking luck to ya.

Tarzana · 16-08-2014 10:45PM

pharmaton wrote: »

wish ye would just stfu about job bridge, just píss or get off the pot already. if you don't want to do one, then fcuking don't, it really is that simple. There are plenty of people who are doing them who don't have that problem and if it's biting ye that there are people willing to avail of the system then good fcking luck to ya.

Charm personified right here, ladies and gentleman. Such eloquence, you should be a speechwriter.

pharmaton · 16-08-2014 10:48PM

Tarzana wrote: »

Charm personified right here, ladies and gentleman. Such eloquence, you should be a speechwriter.

sometimes it's necessary to torture myself by speaking in a manner which only the tone deaf can hear

d-don · 16-08-2014 10:50PM

Tarzana wrote: »

Charm personified right here, ladies and gentleman. Such eloquence, you should be a speechwriter.

Freedom of speech my friend ... Fair play

Tarzana · 16-08-2014 10:59PM

d-don wrote: »

Freedom of speech my friend

Where did I say the poster couldn't say what they said? Seriously, direct me to where I said that. Oh, and criticising what someone posts is also freedom of speech.

Tarzana · 16-08-2014 11:01PM

pharmaton wrote: »

sometimes it's necessary to torture myself by speaking in a manner which only the tone deaf can hear

http://myreactiongifs.com/gifs/jenniferlawrenceokaythumbup.gif

amacca · 16-08-2014 11:06PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

That logic only applies to state employees.

Look whatever about any other profession the teaching profession is hugely oversubscribed. That's why so many graduates can't find a full time job and one of the reasons I decided not to go down that career path (the main one being I can't abide teenagers).

Graduates are going to continue to find it hard to find a job until wages fall enough to make the job less attractive to potential entrants. In the meantime graduates should work on getting their head above the crowd any way they can and frankly 9 months experience is a good way to do that. Were I a newly graduated unemployed teacher I'd be snapping up that opportunity, not turning my nose up at it.

So what if it's only 150 a week? You think you're entitled to more than 150 a week just because you went to college? The experience is worth far more than money at this stage in your career, the 150 is icing on the cake...

I don't think a newly qualified teacher or newly qualified anything for that matter should have to either turn their nose up at job bridge or snap it up because I think it shouldn't exist…………..There should be a rate of pay for doing a job and if your qualified to do it and you've competed and been successful at interview then you should be paid that rate………..not a fraction of it as an intern.

Graduates in lots of fields wouldn't find it hard to get a job if colleges were not allowed treat them as cash cows and train many more numbers of them than there are jobs - I think there should be an awful lot less graduates and colleges should be stopped training many many multiples more students in fields where there are a shortage of jobs, its just another racket imo thats leading to a lowering of standards across the board further on down the line

In a way its crazy shoehorning vast swathes of the 2nd level student population into 3rd level because god forbid you might actually go and do something you are suited for or like that doesn't necessarily involve 3rd level……talk about one size fits all…..Just as crazy as the people that decide to do medicine because its the highest points and/or mammy/daddy has them brainwashed into it only to then realise they simply aren't suited for it (used to be 50% drop out rate in some first year medicine courses)…I seriously doubt a hpat is really sorting that out either as any interview/test can be gamed once its established for a while and its format etc becomes known but thats another story

To answer your question…I personally wouldnt think I was entitled to more than 150 a week because I went to college,I wouldn't think I was entitled to anything just because I went to college, after all practically everyone does that nowadays………

I would however think that if I trained for a professional role (thats what the system calls it) if I made a sacrifice in terms of opportunity cost of the time spent gaining the professional qualification and the financial cost that I should at least be entitled to compete in a jobs market where there is a decent minimum rate of pay for the job I trained for and acquired a supposedly "professional" qualification for….. and should I be successful at interview I shouldn't then have to face being paid 150 a week to do it……..What "professional" earns this sort of money if they are working at their "profession" otherwise why the **** would I waste my time and energy only to be paid 150 a week - I can't imagine any professional loving their profession that much they would do it for that kind of money especially if they have any kind of financial commitments or aspirations to maybe have some sort of life………..The icing on the cake….you've got a sense of humour at least!

Anyway jobs bridge isn't giving people a chance…its ultimately watering down terms and conditions and if its let continue indefinitely/ becomes more commonplace will affect the quality of service thats delivered in the longer term imo and thats the real kicker for those arguing for it…I don't expect them to care or give a sh1t about others but they might see that ultimately that kind of stuff affects them in a negative way as well…maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow but soon and potentially for the rest of your or your kids/spouses/siblings etc etc lives

The Jobbridge Scandal

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