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Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 13/8

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 577 ✭✭✭Ed The Equalizer


    We have THREE CENTRE BACKS. THREE. are you honestly saying LVG couldn't have possibly seen a need for maybe one cb before August 11th?

    We have FIVE centre backs, a couple of midfielders who could play there if necessary, and 20 days left in the transfer window.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭JaMarcusHustle


    We have THREE CENTRE BACKS. THREE. are you honestly saying LVG couldn't have possibly seen a need for maybe one cb before August 11th?

    I'm saying I trust him, and I'll wait and see what he's done in 3 weeks time before judging. And even then, I'll wait even longer until May before judging him makes sense . I'm sure you've brought some pretty small clubs to Champions League glory on Football Manager Mitch, but I'll side with the guy who actually has a track record in the real world, and not with your penchant for the ridiculously premature drama.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,477 ✭✭✭Adamcp898



    i will tell you what is madness, its the constant whining from people about anybody who dares mention one bad word about the club (and i didnt even do that). they complain about people complaining or moaning, but thats exactly what they are doing themselves.

    There are quite a number of posters that have grown over the Summer who seem to think that, until he proves otherwise, LvG is infallible and it's heresy to second guess anything that's going on.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 25,953 ✭✭✭✭kryogen


    hang on a f*cking second here now, but what the hell are you talking about? i brought up a very simple topic that our manager and the ce/board may have problems down then line. its not be having a tizzy or being negative, its a very legitamate topic that has already been discussed elsewhere and is starting to creep into being an issue.

    instead of going off willy waving and derailing the thread (which you have now done), looking for thanks off the thanks whore brigade on here, why didnt you just debate the point that i brought up?

    and how is saying that our manager and the board could have issues in the future., who lets be fair has had a tendancy to stay short term at most jobs he took over, is me being negative?

    i will tell you what is madness, its the constant whining from people about anybody who dares mention one bad word about the club (and i didnt even do that). they complain about people complaining or moaning, but thats exactly what they are doing themselves.


    Pretty rich to demand someone debate the subject you raised when you completely avoided answering questions put to you directly, about a subject you keep repeating earlier on though isn't it?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48,941 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    I'm saying I trust him, and I'll wait and see what he's done in 3 weeks time before judging. And even then, I'll wait even longer until May before judging him makes sense . I'm sure you've brought some pretty small clubs to Champions League glory on Football Manager Mitch, but I'll side with the guy who actually has a track record in the real world, and not with your penchant for the ridiculously premature drama.

    Yep, brill, nothing could possibly go wrong continuing on with the current squad. Top four no problem.

    Also, I actually believe LVG supplied targets long ago, as Woodward hinted at weeks ago when he said we were working on deals. I believe Woodward has simply proven incapable of getting deals done for LVGs targets.
    But on this forum united not signing anyone just has to be because we don't want to, not becuause Woodward is poor at transfers.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 25,953 ✭✭✭✭kryogen


    We have THREE CENTRE BACKS. THREE. are you honestly saying LVG couldn't have possibly seen a need for maybe one cb before August 11th?

    Do you believe we were in for Vermaelen?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,996 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    Right, here goes...

    I resent this "blind faith" stance and honestly, it's the reason why the "doomsayers" rub me up the wrong way. There's no attempt to see the positives at all. For me, this summer has been massively positive so far.

    We fixed the biggest problem from last year (Moyes) and replaced with a far, far superior manager.
    We signed two players who, at the start of the summer, played positions that the vast majority would have singled out as being our biggest problem areas (left back and center midfield).
    We cut a tonne of deadwood, in the form of players who were past it and/or were never going to be near the first team (Rio, Giggs, Evra, Buttner, Bebe, with more to come).
    The only player of significance we lost was Vidic;the reality there is he left when Moyes was in charge, and I personally would say that it was his own impatience to see what happened at the end of the season which saw him gone.

    After that, LVG has been very open with regards what is happening; he said he was going to assess what players we needed, we got back from the tour and we started going after players. Everyone knows our CB needs backups, and we know we bid for Vermalean. And that's who we know; it's possible there's other bids were put forward and rejected, and likely that LVG didn't go "No Verm? Well, **** me then, we'll settle!". It's perfectly logical to think there's another CB target being chased now.

    The transfer window doesn't close for another 3 weeks (not 99 hours), and the team we have now will be more than capable of steamrolling teams through to October (even Moyes was able to dominate the lower league teams). Meanwhile, on pre-season, we looked very dangerous in attack, decently solid in defence (again, only 1 goal from open play against Real, Liverpool, Roma, Inter and LA Galaxy, and it was a freak goal).

    The only "disaster" in waiting is in center defense, and we know that's being worked on as is evident from the bid for Verm. After that, the reality is we aren't in half as bad a shape as some people are trying to paint; we won the league with far less than what we have now to be blunt. RVP, Mata and Rooney all working together will be a ****ing astounding front line, Herrera provides steal, and Carrick/Fletcher/Fel/Cleverly aren't as utterly useless as some people want to paint them as.

    We're two players off having one of the best teams in the leauge; another CM and a CB, and we'll easily be in the Top 4 this season.

    There's a hell of a lot of reasons to want to think positively this season, and crying "blind faith" shows, to me, just pure stubborness and unwillingness to accept the opinions of others. Fair play, you're worried, you feel its a disgrace. We get it. But there's plenty of people who, for good reason, don't think the sky is falling right now, so maybe respect their opinions too and stop crying "blind faith". And realise that maybe the reason people are moaning about the moaning is because it's nearing on being relentless and obsessive at this stage. If you want to continually post "disaster" and "disgrace", don't be shocked when people start getting frustrated and snapping back.

    (And this isn't going to descend into a multi-quote circle. That's my stance on the summer so far, and I've no intentions of repeating this post in 100 different ways; you want me to respect your stance? Then respect mine, ok?)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,346 ✭✭✭✭homerjay2005


    kryogen wrote: »
    Pretty rich to demand someone debate the subject you raised when you completely avoided answering questions put to you directly, about a subject you keep repeating earlier on though isn't it?

    eh? what questions have i avoided on here?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭JaMarcusHustle


    Yep, brill, nothing could possibly go wrong continuing on with the current squad. Top four no problem.

    Weren't you laughed out of Redcafe for your outlandish premature meltdowns?

    Holy Crap Balls, wasn't that it? And we won that match comfortably in the end! Haven't you learned anything?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,580 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    We have THREE CENTRE BACKS. THREE. are you honestly saying LVG couldn't have possibly seen a need for maybe one cb before August 11th?

    The deadline isn't here yet. I have faith that we will if not sign our top 3 targets we will at least reinforce. The opinion as some posters alluded to that we are adequately stocked in defence is laughable and pretty much invalidates anything they might bring as a credible opinion or argument to the subject of the a united squad next season. Pure madness.

    As we stand as a squad right now we are way short at the back, lacking in midfield but with excellent attacking options. This will not see us challenge for the title and will not guarantee us a 4th place.

    3 signings minimum. I'd be happy with Blind and Vidal with An Other as an extra CB another midfielder would be ideal too.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,369 ✭✭✭UnitedIrishman


    Yep, brill, nothing could possibly go wrong continuing on with the current squad. Top four no problem.

    Yeah, that's what we're saying, yup.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 577 ✭✭✭Ed The Equalizer


    Adamcp898 wrote: »
    There are quite a number of posters that have grown over the Summer who seem to think that, until he proves otherwise, LvG is infallible and it's heresy to second guess anything that's going on.

    Or perhaps those posters think he's had an incredibly positive first 3.5 weeks in charge and has done more good than last year's manager did in the whole of last season, and therefore those posters are really happy to have something positive to cheer about again :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,822 ✭✭✭✭Paul Tergat


    JMH is on the money.

    I really do believe some people are more interest in fantasy lineups and transfer muppetry than actually watching United play.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,338 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    Taok wrote: »
    We have FIVE centre backs, a couple of midfielders who could play there if necessary, and 20 days left in the transfer window.

    this is not a go at you but bit in bold should set few alarm bells.

    we should not be in a position to have to do this and weaken the squad. only if total emergency in injury department

    EVENFLOW



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,211 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    OctavarIan wrote: »
    Can someone offer a rational explanation as to why signings this week would be 'too late'? I can understand the frustration over a lack of movement given Woodward's smack talk earlier in the Summer, but to see people starting to question Van Gaal's competence over it is pretty cringeworthy stuff.
    Is he not the manager? Does the buck not stop with him? Moyes got pilloried for a farce of a transfer window but LVG seems set to escape any and all criticism. He is god and shall not be questioned it seems.
    I think Lavezzi would fit in very well with ye. He's insanely talented and I think Van Gaal is the type of guy that would get him into shape and get the best out of him. I think he's better suited to the league than Di Maria as well

    I agree, lets assess him for a few years then spend some time thinking about preparing a bid.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,822 ✭✭✭✭Paul Tergat


    Adamcp898 wrote: »
    There are quite a number of posters that have grown over the Summer who seem to think that, until he proves otherwise, LvG is infallible and it's heresy to second guess anything that's going on.

    Yeah this is bollocks to be honest


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,257 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    Lord TSC wrote: »
    Right, here goes...

    I resent this "blind faith" stance and honestly, it's the reason why the "doomsayers" rub me up the wrong way. There's no attempt to see the positives at all. For me, this summer has been massively positive so far.

    We fixed the biggest problem from last year (Moyes) and replaced with a far, far superior manager.
    We signed two players who, at the start of the summer, played positions that the vast majority would have singled out as being our biggest problem areas (left back and center midfield).
    We cut a tonne of deadwood, in the form of players who were past it and/or were never going to be near the first team (Rio, Giggs, Evra, Buttner, Bebe, with more to come).
    The only player of significance we lost was Vidic;the reality there is he left when Moyes was in charge, and I personally would say that it was his own impatience to see what happened at the end of the season which saw him gone.

    After that, LVG has been very open with regards what is happening; he said he was going to assess what players we needed, we got back from the tour and we started going after players. Everyone knows our CB needs backups, and we know we bid for Vermalean. And that's who we know; it's possible there's other bids were put forward and rejected, and likely that LVG didn't go "No Verm? Well, **** me then, we'll settle!". It's perfectly logical to think there's another CB target being chased now.

    The transfer window doesn't close for another 3 weeks (not 99 hours), and the team we have now will be more than capable of steamrolling teams through to October (even Moyes was able to dominate the lower league teams). Meanwhile, on pre-season, we looked very dangerous in attack, decently solid in defence (again, only 1 goal from open play against Real, Liverpool, Roma, Inter and LA Galaxy, and it was a freak goal).

    The only "disaster" in waiting is in center defense, and we know that's being worked on as is evident from the bid for Verm. After that, the reality is we aren't in half as bad a shape as some people are trying to paint; we won the league with far less than what we have now to be blunt. RVP, Mata and Rooney all working together will be a ****ing astounding front line, Herrera provides steal, and Carrick/Fletcher/Fel/Cleverly aren't as utterly useless as some people want to paint them as.

    We're two players off having one of the best teams in the leauge; another CM and a CB, and we'll easily be in the Top 4 this season.

    There's a hell of a lot of reasons to want to think positively this season, and crying "blind faith" shows, to me, just pure stubborness and unwillingness to accept the opinions of others. Fair play, you're worried, you feel its a disgrace. We get it. But there's plenty of people who, for good reason, don't think the sky is falling right now, so maybe respect their opinions too and stop crying "blind faith". And realise that maybe the reason people are moaning about the moaning is because it's nearing on being relentless and obsessive at this stage. If you want to continually post "disaster" and "disgrace", don't be shocked when people start getting frustrated and snapping back.

    (And this isn't going to descend into a multi-quote circle. That's my stance on the summer so far, and I've no intentions of repeating this post in 100 different ways; you want me to respect your stance? Then respect mine, ok?)

    You just saved me about 20 minutes of typing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48,941 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    this is not a go at you but bit in bold should set few alarm bells.

    we should not be in a position to have to do this and weaken the squad. only if total emergency in injury deepartment



    None of our midfielders should be in defence, given they stink in defence our midfield options stink in general, and blacket is miles off the level required, never mind keane (who I do like )


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 25,953 ✭✭✭✭kryogen


    I'm saying I trust him, and I'll wait and see what he's done in 3 weeks time before judging. And even then, I'll wait even longer until May before judging him makes sense . I'm sure you've brought some pretty small clubs to Champions League glory on Football Manager Mitch, but I'll side with the guy who actually has a track record in the real world, and not with your penchant for the ridiculously premature drama.

    This I totally agree with, crossed out the irrelevant personal stuff as it is unnecessary but the main crux of your point is how I feel about the situation basically.

    I won't simply be judging him when the transfer window slams shut, I will have an opinion on how I felt it went, but it will be impossible to actually know until January at the very least, and most likely the end of the season.

    Van Gaal has his methods, they have been successful everywhere he has been, he deserves the trust of the fans. It may have only been a friendly tournament we won in the US but it was played against some decent teams, playing good football and you can't tell me Liverpool would not have loved to beat us in that final regardless of anything else.

    Van Gaal will decide what he wants for the season and that is good enough for me. The difference in the style of play and attitude to last years pre season is night and day. We were playing ****e and losing to awful teams, now we are playing well and unbeaten against some of the better sides in Europe.

    I would think its a mistake going into the season with 3 front line centre halves but I dont think that will happen, and maybe Louis doesnt see it the same way, maybe he has seen something in the likes of Keane and Blackett and wants to give them the season as understudies to aid their development. I don't know what he thinks, I don't know what he will do, all I do know is that is a coach who knows exactly what he is doing, knows what his plan is and knows how to reach his goals.

    I trust him to bring the club in the right direction.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,580 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Wo are the 5 center backs ?

    Smalling
    Jones
    Evans

    M. Keane ... Off on loan
    Tyler Blackett - never played a single competitive game

    So considering the 3 center backs and their injury record.. How would we fair with a back 3 of ... Carrick, Fletcher and Blackett for a run of games ?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,477 ✭✭✭Adamcp898


    Taok wrote: »
    Or perhaps those posters think he's had an incredibly positive first 3.5 weeks in charge and has done more good than last year's manager did in the whole of last season, and therefore those posters are really happy to have something positive to cheer about again :rolleyes:

    Whilst ignoring the fact that the negatives right now in terms of squad changes have us as at net loss if anything and certainly nowhere near a gain :rolleyes:

    Cheer all you want but it's simply pot kettle black stuff to criticise people for not considering the positives when you discard the negatives.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,338 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    So you'd be happy with a defence of blacket, Carrick and fletcher vs Liverpool or Chelsea?

    None of our midfielders should be in defence, given they stink in defence our midfield options stink in general, and blacket is miles off the level required, never mind keane (who I do like )

    eh?:confused: did you read my post incorrect or what?

    EVENFLOW



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,206 ✭✭✭Lucas Hood


    Strumms wrote: »
    Wo are the 5 center backs ?

    Smalling
    Jones
    Evans

    M. Keane ... Off on loan
    Tyler Blackett - never played a single competitive game

    So considering the 3 center backs and their injury record.. How would we fair with a back 3 of ... Carrick, Fletcher and Blackett for a run of games ?

    Keane hasn't gone anywhere yet.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭ericzeking


    The Herrera deal came straight out of left field this summer...OK we had the whole thing last year but this year I don't think anyone saw it coming, next thing, bid, pay buyout, wham, bam new player and a midfielder no less, just like that. No paper talk, no rumours, done and dusted. This gives me immense confidence that what needs to be done will be done despite the apparent lack of activity.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,346 ✭✭✭✭homerjay2005


    some "neutral" input into our transfer activity this summer.

    http://redmancunian.com/2014/08/11/louis-van-gaal-ed-woodward-lack-transfer-activity/


    Weren't you laughed out of Redcafe for your outlandish premature meltdowns?

    Holy Crap Balls, wasn't that it? And we won that match comfortably in the end! Haven't you learned anything?

    you seem to know alot about Mitchs past (or an incident that happened 2, if not 3 years ago) for somebody who only joined a few months back.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,580 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Lucas Hood wrote: »
    Keane hasn't gone anywhere yet.

    This is true, but if we are to take the many reports in the press as an indication he will be loaned out again. Besides that I don't think he is good enough and is certainly if he needs to play for a run of games this season it would worry me.

    I'm not a merchant of doom or negativity I just try to be a realist and look at our strengths and that of our opposition and football isn't rocket science.... I'm optimistic that we will get deals done... Who exactly....


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,762 Mod ✭✭✭✭DM_7


    Strumms wrote: »
    Wo are the 5 center backs ?

    Smalling
    Jones
    Evans

    M. Keane ... Off on loan
    Tyler Blackett - never played a single competitive game

    So considering the 3 center backs and their injury record.. How would we fair with a back 3 of ... Carrick, Fletcher and Blackett for a run of games ?

    Badly and I doubt anyone would be praising Van Gall if it happens. Just because they are the options now doesn't mean they will be the options at the end of the window. If they are it would be disappointing for sure.

    I think too much is being read into the formation so far though, Van Gaal will change it depending on the players available or opposition. He already said he would need to change it depending in circumstances.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48,941 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    As I have said, my problem isn't LVG. My belief is that he has provided targets (Woodward said weeks ago that we were working on targets LVG had out forward). My belief is that Woodward has been incapable if signing any player LVG has so far asked for. I think LVG has the players we do have looking good, and if our first choice 11 was to remain 100% fit and on top form we will do well this season; but I don't think either of those requirements will be met, so we desperately need 3qyality signing to make top 4.

    My blind faith comment is aimed 100% at the idea Woodward will suddenly sign 3top players in the next 20 days despite the evidence of the previous windows under his transfer command.

    However, on this forum people don't like Woodward being blamed or a suggestion that the reason united haven't signed anyone may not be because we ding want to. So if Woodward ain't the issue, it could only be that LVG hasn't asked for anyone.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 25,953 ✭✭✭✭kryogen







    you seem to know alot about Mitchs past (or an incident that happened 2, if not 3 years ago) for somebody who only joined a few months back.

    It is possible to have a different account now then the one you had, 2 or even 3 years ago you know.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48,941 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    eh?:confused: did you read my post incorrect or what?

    Yep, I read you'd post as the post you were replying to. My deletion if the first line wasn't quick enough.


This discussion has been closed.
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