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Israel - Palestine Conflict. **Mod note in OP - updated 1st August**

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Comments

  • #3752
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    JC01 wrote: »
    Ye I agree it's totally understandable and exactly what Id do if I was in charge but that doesn't change the fact Hamas hold total control over Gaza and anything that enters it
    Er, did you notice the IDF encircling Gaza with a total blockade on all entry and exit to the point of calorie counting the food entering?
    They might control what gets through the tunnels, but that's hardly "control" of what comes in and out of Gaza.


  • #3753
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Nodin wrote: »
    I used do a bit of gas welding when younger. Going on memory, the acytelene was 400psi and the pressure of the oxygen 2000 psi. They can take off like a torpedo if they fall and the valve snaps. I'd imagine things would go "boom" if they were tossed on a fire.

    Worked in a military yard years ago, we used to put them on the edge of a lake and hit the valves with hammers to send them off like torpedo's :D


  • #3754
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    HazDanz wrote: »
    You cannot separate the blockade and the governing of Gaza as both are intrinsically linked.

    A fair analysis of how Gaza operates to an open flow of funds is not possible as it has never happened.

    Borders open and Gaza being allowed to operate as it wants and then we can comment on it. At the moment you are second guessing what could happen rather what would happen.
    This isn't actually true. We have the West Bank as a living example of what happens when you do not resist Zionist expansionism.
    Complete and utter annexation and subjugation.


  • #3755
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    JC01 wrote: »
    Very true and Id agree that the presence of the blockade does serve to further isolate Gaza and it's internal goings-on from much meaningful oversight.
    Agree with who? That's isn't even close to the point you are allegedly responding to.


  • #3756
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    JC01 wrote: »
    Yes because fanatical jihadis have never sprung up or thrived in places that wernt under Israeli occupation. And of course Hamas will decommission and disband the day the blockade is lifted.
    Hamas as an entity was founded two years before Israel began border controls in Gaza. They were nobody.
    Funny what a little racism, oppression and besieging will do for radicalizing a population isn't it.


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  • #3757
    HazDanz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,300 ✭✭✭HazDanz


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    This isn't actually true. We have the West Bank as a living example of what happens when you do not resist Zionist expansionism.
    Complete and utter annexation and subjugation.

    True but the point I was making was more towards how the government in Gaza would react to funds and open borders rather than what Israel's reaction would be to open borders.


  • #3758
    HazDanz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,300 ✭✭✭HazDanz


    Who do people think will benefit more out of the current conflict politically - Israel or Palestine?


  • #3759
    wp_rathead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭wp_rathead



    Israel to declare Gaza 'enemy territory' to avoid payouts to inhabitants
    The cabinet is expected to declare the Gaza Strip as enemy territory. A senior Israeli official said the decision would mean that Israel would not be liable for damage incurred to residents of the Strip as a result of Israeli actions during Operation Protective Edge.

    :(


  • #3760
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    wprathead wrote: »

    Israel to declare Gaza 'enemy territory' to avoid payouts to inhabitants


    :(
    I would like to propose Ireland apply for Enemy Territory designation also then.


  • #3761
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    Warper wrote: »
    Fanatical jihadis?? What are you talking about? They were elected to Govt because of the Israeli oppression.

    Those elections were 8 years ago. Do you know of any other "government" that lasts 8 years without being re-elected? Aside from dictatorships that is.


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  • #3762
    Arthur Beesley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭Arthur Beesley


    Warper wrote: »
    Guess what? If Israel lifted the siege and left Gaza in peace there would be no Hamas. That is too hard for the war-crazed Israelis to understand.

    Is anyone naive enough to believe this?


  • #3763
    Son Of A Vidic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    HazDanz wrote: »
    Who do people think will benefit more out of the current conflict politically - Israel or Palestine?

    The Palestinians of course. There is a world wide growing disgust of Israels actions is Gaza and how they've behaved. It has also become too obvious a pattern now for most people to ignore. And what I haven't really seen before until now. Is the unprecedented momentum right across the Net, for boycotting Israeli products. And while Israel might hide behind their American crutch. It is the potential crippling effects a growing boycott might have, that would really scare them. Hopefully that would make them see sense, behave like a civilised nation and sit down to negotiate a permanent resolution.


  • #3764
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    wprathead wrote: »

    Israel to declare Gaza 'enemy territory' to avoid payouts to inhabitants


    :(

    The whole thing smacks as a huge admission of guilt. If the IDF was in the right, surely there would be not need for such a declaration.


  • #3765
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Arthur Beesley wrote: »
    Is anyone naive enough to believe this?
    Is anyone uninformed or biased enough to disagree?


  • #3766
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    Those elections were 8 years ago. Do you know of any other "government" that lasts 8 years without being re-elected? Aside from dictatorships that is.


    There's been an Israeli regime over the occupied territories for 47 years and no Palestinian there ever got to vote on the matter.


  • #3767
    Santa Cruz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Santa Cruz


    HazDanz wrote: »
    Who do people think will benefit more out of the current conflict politically - Israel or Palestine?

    Once the shooting stops people will move on to the next conflict. While people may not agree with Israel the Palestinians aren't great at making friends themsleves with their record of atrocities, aircraft hijacking, abuse of womens rights. No more than our friends in the North they are welcome to each other


  • #3768
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    Those elections were 8 years ago. Do you know of any other "government" that lasts 8 years without being re-elected? Aside from dictatorships that is.
    That well known dictatorship the UK didn't have a general election between 1935 and 1945. That's 10 years.
    Want to take a wild stab at why?


  • #3769
    blackwhite
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,846 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    Santa Cruz wrote: »
    Once the shooting stops people will move on to the next conflict. While people may not agree with Israel the Palestinians aren't great at making friends themsleves with their record of atrocities, aircraft hijacking, abuse of womens rights. No more than our friends in the North they are welcome to each other

    Quite a while since there was a Palestinian aircraft hijacking.


  • #3770
    R P McMurphy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭R P McMurphy


    Nodin wrote: »
    I used do a bit of gas welding when younger. Going on memory, the acytelene was 400psi and the pressure of the oxygen 2000 psi. They can take off like a torpedo if they fall and the valve snaps. I'd imagine things would go "boom" if they were tossed on a fire.

    Or shot at. Not enough people remembering the ending to Jaws


  • #3771
    hju6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭hju6


    Santa Cruz wrote: »
    Once the shooting stops people will move on to the next conflict. While people may not agree with Israel the Palestinians aren't great at making friends themsleves with their record of atrocities, aircraft hijacking, abuse of womens rights. No more than our friends in the North they are welcome to each other

    I been supporting the imprisoned Palestinians for the past 9 years, just because the Israelis aren't murdering them in the name of 'defence' doesn't mean they are not there.


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  • #3772
    hju6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭hju6


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    Those elections were 8 years ago. Do you know of any other "government" that lasts 8 years without being re-elected? Aside from dictatorships that is.

    It matters not who runs the prison camp, Israel will still attack, expand and cleanse, until the area is assimilated into a White Jew state


  • #3773
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    Those elections were 8 years ago. Do you know of any other "government" that lasts 8 years without being re-elected? Aside from dictatorships that is.

    It's almost tragic that you put so much effort into the defence of the indefensible. What a waste.


  • #3774
    user2011
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,071 ✭✭✭user2011


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    Those elections were 8 years ago. Do you know of any other "government" that lasts 8 years without being re-elected? Aside from dictatorships that is.

    May also help if the only other party (Fatah) able to challenge for government rule in the Palestinian elections didn't try a coup backed by the US when Hamas won.


  • #3775
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    They have an extremely advanced military. They can easily precision strike a target without killing civilians. In the event there are human shields, they can send in a ground strike force to take down the position. Not only would this eliminate the rocket site but it would have a much larger chance of killing the actual militants setting them up thereby securing themselves more effectively for their future. Their current campaign is having the same effect on Hamas as Bloody Sunday had on the IRA.

    They already did send in the military which lead to almost 70 dead Israelis. Why do you think they did that? For the crack of it?

    There a number of posters on boards.ie who have served in the military and the message that is clear from them is that the media have this unrealistic expectation of some utopian clean war where no innocent bystander should get killed because of todays technology. Well, war is not a video game and its certainly not perfect not matter what people on Facebook or on the News will tell you. With so many bombs dropped on Gaza the past few weeks its a wonder how more have not died if we are being honest but don't let objectivity get in the way of a mind made up to wag the finger.


  • #3776
    FTA69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    jank wrote: »
    They already did send in the military which lead to almost 70 dead Israelis. Why do you think they did that? For the crack of it?

    There a number of posters on boards.ie who have served in the military and the message that is clear from them is that the media have this unrealistic expectation of some utopian clean war where no innocent bystander should get killed because of todays technology. Well, war is not a video game and its certainly not perfect not matter what people on Facebook or on the News will tell you. With so many bombs dropped on Gaza the past few weeks its a wonder how more have not died if we are being honest but don't let objectivity get in the way of a mind made up to wag the finger.

    The sensible response to that post would be not to drop the bombs in the first place and to stop illegally occupying and annexing land.


  • #3777
    Gringo180
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    That well known dictatorship the UK didn't have a general election between 1935 and 1945. That's 10 years.
    Want to take a wild stab at why?

    Nor Cuba for that matter, when your under occupation, constant threat and siege democracy usually is curtailed.


  • #3778
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,612 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Arthur Beesley wrote: »
    He probably isn't a fan if Hamas.

    Oddly enough over 400 children were murdered and according to the Human Rights groups not too many Hamas members.


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/10984451/Israels-offensive-in-Gaza-has-killed-more-children-than-fighters-say-human-rights-grou


  • #3779
    Gringo180
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    jank wrote: »
    They already did send in the military which lead to almost 70 dead Israelis. Why do you think they did that? For the crack of it?

    There a number of posters on boards.ie who have served in the military and the message that is clear from them is that the media have this unrealistic expectation of some utopian clean war where no innocent bystander should get killed because of todays technology. Well, war is not a video game and its certainly not perfect not matter what people on Facebook or on the News will tell you. With so many bombs dropped on Gaza the past few weeks its a wonder how more have not died if we are being honest but don't let objectivity get in the way of a mind made up to wag the finger.

    You just keep defending the indefensible :confused:

    Nobody expects no civilian deaths in a war in such a densely populated area but the numbers that have been massacred in such a short space of time is nothing short of disgusting, the targeting of U.N schools, hospitals, power stations, water stations. How can you honestly defend this??


  • #3780
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    seamus wrote: »
    Hamas are terrorists

    Well at least you admit this as many on this thread would not. They see Hamas as the legitimate government who just happen to rule Gaza like a dictatorship and want to wipe out all Jews, but a legitimate government none the less.:rolleyes:


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  • #3781
    Gringo180
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    jank wrote: »
    Well at least you admit this as many on this thread would not. They see Hamas as the legitimate government who just happen to rule Gaza like a dictatorship and want to wipe out all Jews, but a legitimate government none the less.:rolleyes:
    What about the wiping of Palestine off the map? What sort of government actually carries out what they criticise there neighbours for wanting to do?


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