A chat about the Japanese gaming industry

Shiminay · 05-08-2014 12:03PM #1

OK, I'm getting damn near philosophical with this one, but the following thought struck me after seeing the announcement of the Resident Evil remake. I see no reason why we shouldn't have a more cultural chat amongst friends though.

Theoretical:
Japanese games companies that have traditionally done well in Western countries are so desperately out of ideas that a HD remake of a classic game is what they're doing to stay afloat.

Seems to be working out for Nintendo (recycle, recycle, recycle), so why wouldn't someone like Capcom who is struggling cash in on nostalgia too?

I'm honestly not trying to start a row, I find a lot of Japanese gaming stuff bores me to tears, so it's a market I stay away from, but I know there are a lot of Japanese game fans here.

I will also state that I thought Nintendo did a great job with E3 in showing me a company that's working hard to make itself relevant to the world stage again - like it or not Ninty Fans, you are the "also ran" in everything except the handheld world, and even that's slipping away thanks to mobile phones. The conversations here on Boards and anecdotal evidence (as well as cold hard sales figures) from all around the world suggest that nobody except other Nintendo fans takes their platform seriously, but that all gamers have a fondness for the company as they're what so many of us grew up playing and everyone seems to want to see them back as a powerhouse.

As a slight tangent, is the closure of Studio Ghibli a suggestion that this isn't just games, but it's more that "the West" has had it's fill of Japan's eccentricities and differences in a world that has become increasingly insular and focussed on the individual rather than "the people?"

johnny_ultimate · 05-08-2014 12:29PM

Japanese games companies that have traditionally done well in Western countries are so desperately out of ideas that a HD remake of a classic game is what they're doing to stay afloat.

Not unique to Japanese companies. Take the Master Chief Collection as an example, although there are many similar examples across multiple platforms.

The value of Nostalgia isn't unique to games either - many film companies can rely on theatrical or home re-releases of classic titles as a significant income boost. People like better versions of their favourites, and are more than happy to pay for it.

Seems to be working out for Nintendo (recycle, recycle, recycle), so why wouldn't someone like Capcom who is struggling cash in on nostalgia too?

Nintendo rely very little on remakes. Apart from some early N64 ports on 3DS and Wind Waker on Wii U, the vast majority of their games are original, new releases. Sequels perhaps, but entirely new games. Super Mario 3D World and Mario Kart 8 are new games entirely, not a straightforward recycling of existing ones. The former particularly offers more new ideas than perhaps any single game sequel or even game you'd care to mention - recycling is an unfair comment for such wild creativity.

Oh, and Ghibli aren't necessarily closing - merely taking a temporary break to decide on their future following the retirements of the two creatives who built and defined their studio. They've never been reliant on Western finances anyway, given their foreign takes are a fraction of what their films make at home - it's in Japan where they're struggling given the new lack of marquee names. That's less an indictment of the output their younger talents and more a result of the sheer commercial power of the Miyazaki name.

Shiminay · 05-08-2014 12:40PM

I was hoping you'd show up Johnny, this conversation is right in your bailiwick

It doesn't matter that every iteration of a Nintendo character's game is somewhat different. The casual observer sees "Mario" and "Zelda" and thinks "ffs, again?!" and that's that. That's not conjecture or speculation, that is reflected in those aforementioned sales figures and opinions.

The Master Chief thing is Microsoft's similarly desperate need to get some hype around the XBone which, whilst being a perfectly fine machine, is getting absolutely pummelled by the PS4 in every stat that matters. It certainly proves that it's an issue that can affect anyone.

Also, that's great news about Ghibli (I hadn't done any follow up reading on it since I heard the initial news a few days ago), I sincerely hope they come out the other end with a solid plan and keep producing quality for years to come.

richymcdermott · 05-08-2014 12:43PM

Shiminay wrote: »

OK, I'm getting damn near philosophical with this one, but the following thought struck me after seeing the announcement of the Resident Evil remake. I see no reason why we shouldn't have a more cultural chat amongst friends though.

Theoretical:
Japanese games companies that have traditionally done well in Western countries are so desperately out of ideas that a HD remake of a classic game is what they're doing to stay afloat.

Seems to be working out for Nintendo (recycle, recycle, recycle), so why wouldn't someone like Capcom who is struggling cash in on nostalgia too?

I'm honestly not trying to start a row, I find a lot of Japanese gaming stuff bores me to tears, so it's a market I stay away from, but I know there are a lot of Japanese game fans here.

I will also state that I thought Nintendo did a great job with E3 in showing me a company that's working hard to make itself relevant to the world stage again - like it or not Ninty Fans, you are the "also ran" in everything except the handheld world, and even that's slipping away thanks to mobile phones. The conversations here on Boards and anecdotal evidence (as well as cold hard sales figures) from all around the world suggest that nobody except other Nintendo fans takes their platform seriously, but that all gamers have a fondness for the company as they're what so many of us grew up playing and everyone seems to want to see them back as a powerhouse.

As a slight tangent, is the closure of Studio Ghibli a suggestion that this isn't just games, but it's more that "the West" has had it's fill of Japan's eccentricities and differences in a world that has become increasingly insular and focussed on the individual rather than "the people?"

Oh look another Nintendo recycles non sense again

Halo :

13 battlefield games from 2002 to 2013 with another coming next year

Uncharted series had 3 games in one generation and vita game and ps4 game coming.

assassin creed 11 games since 2007

call of duty

14 games since 2004

Super mario series

19 games since 1985

The Legend Of Zelda
21 games since 1986

Shiminay · 05-08-2014 01:35PM

And yet all those big AAA's you mentioned aren't exactly struggling in an oversaturated market and Nintendo, whilst not in any kind of financial difficulty, is very much on the back foot in the living room hardware market which has the unfortunate knock on effect of poor software sales because they're so invested in first party work.

I think a vast majority of the games you mentioned are very ordinary and are essentially "pop music" of the gaming world. By the numbers power fantasies that require very little time and energy to become invested and just as disposable as last year's Pop Idol winner. That's why they're just as successful. There are several on that list that I look forward to and enjoy very much. I am certainly not alone in that.

But I promise, this isn't about Nintendo, lets go back to Capcom which triggered the idea for this thread off for me. They are struggling. They're releasing what, the third or fourth iteration of Street Fighter 4 this year I think? They've finally gotten serious about the eSports side of their game (don't tell fighting game people I called it eSports, they're touchy about that

) and are supporting it like all the other eSports companies who are bringing all sorts of money in and the 2 biggest games are free to play!

They've had a few critical failures too - Resident Evil 6 in particular seems to have done significant damage to them financially and reputationally.

Retr0gamer · 05-08-2014 01:35PM

Capcom are struggling due to years of terrible mismanagement that has seen them haemorrhage most of their talent. Most of the people that made Capcom so great have left the company or been promoted out of game development roles. It's the same with Konami who lost most of their talent after they forced them into mobile gaming. All they have left is Kojima studios and PES.

What is happening in Japan is that mobile and handheld gaming suit the Japanese life style a lot more than home consoles. People aren't buying home consoles anymore outside of the hardcore Otaku audience. Japanese development has shifted it's focus to handheld and mobile. All that are left is Nintendo, Platinum and what remains of Konami and Capcom who are happier to outsource to Western studios. To say that everything out of Japan is terrible is to ignore all the amazing handheld games they produce and IMO the stuff on handheld is far richer and much better than anything on the home consoles.

Unfortunately the Japanese have been slow to jump on the indie bandwagon. It's only in recent times with Igarashi and Inafune going indie that many of Japans best developers have decided to strike out on their own. In Japan it's expected that you stay with the company you work for for life. Many indie developers also don't realise that there is a market for their games. Kickstarter is seen as begging in their culture so they haven't fully embraced it. Thankfully the Bit summit events have really brought a change in attitude and opened up the eyes of these indie developers so hopefully we'll see more from them considering it was La Mulana and Cave Story (two Japanese indie games) that pretty much kickstarted the whole indie game movement.

As for your comments on Nintendo, they couldn't be further from the truth. Nintendo really do not rely on rehashes and remakes. Sure they do have a few but they are the exception. In fact when Mario Galaxy 2 was announced it was a big surprise that Nintendo was revisiting the same gameplay style with the same game engine for a Mario game, something that they have never done. Thankfully that game was so full of imagination it definitely wasn't a rehash. Nintendo likes to quietly innovate behind the scenes. They might play it safe with big games like Zelda but even then there's more evolution there than most franchise games. Their smaller franchises like wario, Kirby and even their new IP is where they like to innovate. Recently they brought out Rusty's Real Deal Baseball on the 3DS, their first free to play game. It's a fantastic rhythm action game and does free to play far better than any other game you care to mention that uses the free to play formula.

What is frustrating for Nintendo fans is that while Nintendo are pumping out some of the best games they have ever made there's so many people just totally dismissing them for being 'kiddie' and not mature. There's more maturity in most Nintendo games than any dudebro game which are usually utterly childish. It's just kind of annoying when people say Nintendo do nothing but rehash the same games or all Mario games are the same when it's a total falsehood. It's unfortunately a stigma Nintendo have that is totally baseless and I'm not sure where it ever came from, more than likely some god awful youtubers or journalists.

Oh also saying you don't like JRPGs is another prejudice that needs to stop. Even if you like Western RPGs there's games like Shin Megami Tensei, Persona and Etrian Odyssey that have their roots in Western RPGs like Ultima and Wizardry. They offer far more choice than any Bioware game (which is just illusion of choice). The SMt and Persona games also offer far better stories and characters than the derivative Tolkien esque fantasy of Mass Effect and Dragon Age (yes Mass Effect, it's a fantasy game with a sci fi skin).

Retr0gamer · 05-08-2014 01:37PM

Shiminay wrote: »

But I promise, this isn't about Nintendo, lets go back to Capcom which triggered the idea for this thread off for me. They are struggling. They're releasing what, the third or fourth iteration of Street Fighter 4 this year I think? They've finally gotten serious about the eSports side of their game (don't tell fighting game people I called it eSports, they're touchy about that ) and are supporting it like all the other eSports companies who are bringing all sorts of money in and the 2 biggest games are free to play! They've had a few critical failures too - Resident Evil 6 in particular seems to have done significant damage to them financially and reputationally.

Capcom have been very good about supporting the eSports side of Street Fighter for well over 10 years now. they supported their old fighting games and EVO for years and even turned a blind eye to the likes of GGPO which let people play their games online for free (before eventually using that tech themselves).

gizmo · 05-08-2014 02:28PM

From the perspective of someone who loves the action side of the Japanese industry's output, in the last generation or so alone they've given us Bayonetta, Vanquish, The Wonderful 101, Lollipop Chainsaw, Killer is Dead, Desperate Heroes 1 & 2, Earth Defense Force, Metal Gear Rising Revengeance, Binary Domain, Anarchy Reigns, Shadows of the Damned, Ninja Gaiden II and more.

Hell, that's not even including the non-J RPGs coming from the region such as the Souls series, Dragon's Dogma, Nier and other interesting games such as Deadly Premonition and Catherine.

Personally I would take many of those games over most Western-developed games in the last while so, bearing that in mind, I find it hard to criticise them for a lack of ideas.

What I find sad is that, in return, those games have, regardless of their critical reception, seen nearly universally mediocre sales. In light of that, I find it rather unsurprising that they've begun devoting resources to re-releasing classic titles, especially since they've been fairly well received so far, Konami's Silent Hill efforts notwithstanding.

On that note, at a platform-holder level Sony are also guilty of the remake criticism too, yet as someone who never owned a PS2 and whose ability to play PS2 games died with his 60GB PS3, I welcomed the ClassicsHD collection with open arms.

super_furry · 05-08-2014 03:02PM

gizmo wrote: »

From the perspective of someone who loves the action side of the Japanese industry's output, in the last generation or so alone they've given us Bayonetta, Vanquish, The Wonderful 101, Lollipop Chainsaw, Killer is Dead, Desperate Heroes 1 & 2, Earth Defense Force, Metal Gear Rising Revengeance, Binary Domain, Anarchy Reigns, Shadows of the Damned, Ninja Gaiden II and more.

How many people care about them though? Aside from the fact that I personally think there's some stinkers and a lot of mediocrity in there - Lollipop Chainsaw Anarchy Reigns, Shadows of the Damned and EDF in particular - how many of those games sold well? Or even wouldn't be considered sales flops outside of Japan? While we can all agree that all companies go back to the same well over and over again, it does seem to be the case that Japanese franchises (outside on Nintendo) are getting worse as their series progress – both in terms of game quality and sales. Resident Evil and Final Fantasy are perfect examples.

gizmo · 05-08-2014 03:18PM

super_furry wrote: »

How many people care about them though? Aside from the fact that I personally think there's some stinkers and a lot of mediocrity in there - Lollipop Chainsaw Anarchy Reigns, Shadows of the Damned and EDF in particular - how many of those games sold well? Or even wouldn't be considered sales flops outside of Japan? While we can all agree that all companies go back to the same well over and over again, it does seem to be the case that Japanese franchises (outside on Nintendo) are getting worse as their series progress – both in terms of game quality and sales. Resident Evil and Final Fantasy are perfect examples.

I dealt with their poor sales later in my post. The reason I listed so many titles of such varying quality (despite, I should add, me having a ton of fun with eve the games you didn't like but that's neither here nor there) was to highlight the fact that regardless of the critical reception they received, they nearly all sold relatively poorly which would put those companies in a bit of a bind. If they can't generate high sales through quality products then what else can they do? Appeal to the lowest common denominator? Outsource more work to western developers who may understand the audience better? Concentrate more on HD re-releases of classic titles?

An important point to note, however, is that the Resident Evil series hasn't gotten worse in terms of sales, it has, with the exception of the sixth entry, gotten better.

johnny_ultimate · 05-08-2014 05:16PM

Shiminay wrote:

It doesn't matter that every iteration of a Nintendo character's game is somewhat different. The casual observer sees "Mario" and "Zelda" and thinks "ffs, again?!" and that's that. That's not conjecture or speculation, that is reflected in those aforementioned sales figures and opinions.

Given Mario Kart 8 has been a big, big hit - an extraordinary one given the size of the install base - sale figures actually indicate that Mario is a big selling point for many casual observers

Pretty much all major Mario releases boast incredible sales and a staggering market life - it's not uncommon to see some of the Wii and original DS games still selling at a relatively premium price! Sadly, it's the boldest, most experimental Mario titles that don't actually attract as many sales as the 'easy sells' like the New Super Mario Bros series.

But I can only urge you once again to try a recent Mario game - specifically the Mario Galaxy or Super Mario 3D World. I cannot imagine anyone could play them and consider them 'somewhat different' or lazy - they are among the most brilliant and radical titles you'll ever play. Similar on a surface level, but absolutely overflowing with imagination. You've been assured by enough posters that this is the case that you really should give it a whirl

As for the wider question of Japanese games, what I think we'll start seeing is the emergence of a more pronounced 'arthouse'-style niche - and in fact we're seeing it already. Japanese film, for example, has limited commercial prospects in the West, but several niche distributors have emerged for the audiences still interested in it. Third Window Films recently started a kickstarter campaign to release a 'new Japanese directors' boxset - they reached their target in 2 days. It's still a lively and active scene despite the limited exposure it gets in terms of the mainstream.

With games, we can see something similar. There are several Western publishers flourishing or at very least ticking along nicely within the niche of Japanese gaming. NiS, Atlus, Rising Star Games, Aksys, XSEED - these companies have found their audience. Indeed, Japanese game fans are treated extremely well, such as generous limited editions at even more generous prices (compared to the expensive crap you get with AAA SEs). Furthermore, digital distribution has seen the possibility of excellent games getting releases when a full retail one is not feasible. Take the Ys and Trails in the Sky games on Steam, Level 5's digital Guild releases, or the budget price release of Shin Megami Tensei IV that's coming to the 3DS in September. Even in Japan, a lot of these titles are cult hits as opposed to blockbusters, but they've managed to maintain their modest popularity even with major shifts in market dynamics.

It's easy to look at a few confused, bloated AAA developers and franchises and definitively decry the state of Japanese gaming, but it's also unfair. I have my own frustrations with the market (lack of radical experimentation, limited aesthetic and narrative ambitions, dull over-saturation of Moe and anime-like artstyles, endless Monster Hunter clones), but it's straight up inaccurate to suggest there's no great games being made there. For every weak main Final Fantasy sequel, you can expect a superb Persona one. Every time Resident Evil is exploited, we have the fantastic likes of Virtue's Last Reward, Danganronpa, Xenoblade Chronicles, Dark Souls, Bravely Default, Attack of the Friday Monsters etc... Sony Japan Studios keep making wonderfully inventive games like Gravity Rush, Tokyo Jungle and Puppeteer. You've got Nintendo, Nihon Falcom, Platinum and others constantly making bold, brash and brilliant games. As long as they maintain a sustainable niche market, so what if they aren't blockbuster hits in the West? Frankly, it's their own loss if someone chooses to ignore any of these titles

Perhaps the days of Japanese dominance of the AAA market are over, with only the odd few like Metal Gear Solid achieving massive worldwide commercial success. But given how the best work in any medium is very often only consumed by an enthusiast audience, that is not the end of the world. Maybe lower budgets and smaller audiences will encourage greater creativity and risks. That's where we get back to the 'arthouse' side of things - a small, self-sustaining niche that can keep an entire scene alive even when the mass market has moved on.

Retr0gamer · 05-08-2014 05:45PM

Everyone decrying that Final Fantasy is dead hasn't played FFXIII-2 or XIII-3. XIII wasn't that great (I did like it but recognise it is severely flawed) FFXIII-2 is a great game despite the naff story and by all accounts FFXIII-3 is really good as well.

Unfortunately the only games that Square Enix seem to sell from the Japanese side are Final Fantasy games and the bafflingly popular Kingdom Hearts. I don't hold out hope for FFXIV since that twat nomura is in charge and he has yet to be in charge of a great game.

Overheal · 05-08-2014 06:20PM

This angry black kid eloquently expresses what CAPCOM did to **** itself over very well:

In a nutshell, CAPCOM was actually a commercial success for a long time simply hashing out new iterations of popular IPs like Mega Man year after year, until they just started making some irrevocably bat**** maneuvers. Examples (mentioned in video) include axing the Legends series, despite fan outcry and large petitions CAPCOM's PR told fans "It's a shame that the community didn't show a lot of support for the project." Similarly they ran a poll to see which fighters fans wanted to see in Marvel v. CAPCOM 3, and 3 different Mega Men showed up in the top 20, with Mega Man X taking 35% of the total votes as the #1 pick, followed by classic Mega Man (pictured left...) at No.9 (irony) and Mega Man EXE at 19. CAPCOM PR again told fans there wasn't enough fan interest in seeing a Mega Man character in the game, and instead the Zero character got an optional Mega Man X skin.. And then, when it came to releasing Street Fighter X Tekken:

CAPCOM said "we are prepared to **** all over your nostalgia" and chose Box Art Mega Man, the Mega Man that was produced in less than 6 hours, by the friend of a Nintendo US marketing director who only had a few instructional cues about the game's material (5:30), under a deadline.

It should be noted: Inafune left CAPCOM in October/November 2010, just a month or two after CAPCOM relented and announced Legends 3 was greenlit and shortly after production was done on Mega Man 10 (which is hard as BALLS) and MvC3 launched in Feb 2011. SFxT launched with the Fcuk You to the Mega Man franchise in 2012. Clearly, CAPCOM and Inafune must have had some sort of falling out. Inafune nor CAPCOM ever has said what exactly the penultimate disagreement was concerning.

Inafune did an exit interview here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=411847 basically, if you want to talk about Japanese publishing, the problem according to Inafune was the industry is in trouble because of 'lifetime employment' and the lack of incentive to really break the mold when you're always guaranteed your next paystub.

Since announcing Might No 9 CAPCOM even donated $10,000 to the project's kickstarter and still some employees at CAPCOM are quoted as being in the dark as to why he left in the first place http://www.p4rgaming.com/capcom-wishes-they-had-such-a-great-concept-like-keiji-inafunes-mighty-no-9/ (might be a satire site though, this made me chuckle: http://www.p4rgaming.com/capcom-planning-3-years-worth-of-dlc-for-mega-man-2/)

Whatever happened nobody knows, but since he left, Mega Man has not been released in any new main titles short of a few perplexing cameos .

Retr0gamer · 05-08-2014 08:26PM

Inafune after leaving offered to work on megaman legends 3 for free. Capcom told him to feck off. I really do not understand Capcom at the moment. It's like a company that is just taking orders from clueless shareholders.

gizmo · 05-08-2014 08:46PM

Well on the subject of Mega Man, here's an excerpt from an IGN interview with Capcom's Senior Vice President of strategic planning and business development, Christian Svensson.

IGN: For Mega Man 9 and Mega Man 10, I don't recall Capcom ever talking about whether or not those were successful titles given the budget for those two games. Were you pleased with the results?

Svensson: Yes, we were pleased with the results. Let me also say don't let the 8-bit nature of those games make you think that they didn't cost much to make because they were not inexpensive. They were efforts, in many cases, larger than most of our other digital efforts in terms of budget. They are not small. We are modestly pleased with how 9 and 10 did. Mega Man 9 especially, I think, was particularly innovative for the time to look back and give classic fans some love. We haven't done anything like this. No one's done a classic throwback quite like that and it was one of the first this generation to do it.

I'd imagine the lack of other Mega Man games has something to do with Capcom being "modestly pleased" with how it did. As for Mighty No. 9, I'm really interested to see how well it actually sells on release and what effect, if any, it has on the future of Mega Man.

Retr0gamer · 05-08-2014 08:57PM

The sad thing about Legends 3 is not just that it could have finished the Legends storyline which was left on a Shenmue type cliffhanger but by all accounts it was wonderful. Then Capcom used the guts of MML3 to make the superb Ex Troopers which they never bothered to release outside of Japan.

This five year old knows more about how to continue Megaman:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRLRX-ikQLE

CiDeRmAn · 06-08-2014 02:07PM

Re indie scene in Japan.
The Dreamcast has proved to be a home to several small studios bringing seriously good titles to the system.
With the likes of Triangle Service, G Rev and Milestone all producing on that and other formats.

Retr0gamer · 06-08-2014 02:58PM

Well I'm pretty sure Triangle and Milestone are dead now and G.Rev are currently only doing outsourcing and we probably won't ever see a game from them again :'(

B.A._Baracus · 06-08-2014 05:00PM

I miss the days of the PlayStation 2. Most of the good games were Japanese made.

calex71 · 06-08-2014 06:14PM

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Re indie scene in Japan.
The Dreamcast has proved to be a home to several small studios bringing seriously good titles to the system.
With the likes of Triangle Service, G Rev and Milestone all producing on that and other formats.

Hmmmmm I saw a kickstarter only today for a DC title https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1945059142/elysian-shadows-next-gen-2d-rpg

What about other asian countries like S.Korea? Or are they pretty much just churning out MMO games ?

Xbox One is getting launched in China soon could we see some talent emerge from there in years to come? Some of the stuff shown in the trailer for the One launch there looked interesting.

Overheal · 06-08-2014 06:24PM

gizmo wrote: »

I'd imagine the lack of other Mega Man games has something to do with Capcom being "modestly pleased" with how it did. As for Mighty No. 9, I'm really interested to see how well it actually sells on release and what effect, if any, it has on the future of Mega Man.

I think all MN9 needs at this point is a marketing campaign prior to launch, and it's a "stretch goal" I will probably go propose on the backer forum.

Overheal · 06-08-2014 06:26PM

Retr0gamer wrote: »

The sad thing about Legends 3 is not just that it could have finished the Legends storyline which was left on a Shenmue type cliffhanger but by all accounts it was wonderful. Then Capcom used the guts of MML3 to make the superb Ex Troopers which they never bothered to release outside of Japan.

This five year old knows more about how to continue Megaman:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRLRX-ikQLE

OH MY GOD HES SO ADORABLE IF HS PARENTS DIE ILL ADOPT HIM ;_;

Retr0gamer · 06-08-2014 06:26PM

calex71 wrote: »

Hmmmmm I saw a kickstarter only today for a DC title https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1945059142/elysian-shadows-next-gen-2d-rpg

Christ that looks absolutely disgusting.

S Korea is mainly just MMO and online game dominated. China is a bit as well and most development there is all outsourcing. Maybe we will see indie talent but very doubtful there'll be big studios there. Most big publishers see China as cheap labour for intensive code work.

Fate Amenable To Change · 07-08-2014 01:31AM

I think Japan has turned a corner innovation wise and viewing Japan as a country inclined to repeat itself is nothing but a tired cliche. While nothing is completely innovative most of the innovative games, excluding Indie, have been Japanese... at least IMO.

Numbers mean very little as gaming was a niche culture and I consider it to be that way more now than ever. I don't view people who play mainly COD, Battlefield and Fifa actual gamers. "Gamers" with a fixation on fps also rile me when they declare themselves hardcore gamers. What they are is someone who focuses on a very repetitive genre with very little change in dynamics since the original Battlefield, Goldeneye, Halo or Counterstrike. Yes, there has been some innovation but nothing amazingly innovative.

I don't care about sales figures - I'm not a Ninty fan and I haven't even bought a Wii-U yet, and I'm not planning to until Christmas. I haven't bought either of the other 2 and I don't see any real reason to right now. As far as Nintendo's "remakes" go I don't know anyone doesn't enjoy a new Smash Bro's or Mario Kart. There's normally a massive difference in the quality of games and the engines used. This unlike most games companies does not infringe on their creativity.

Nintendo aren't trotting out remakes they're trotting out different games under a recognized brand name. As long as they're confining their marketing to naming an adventure game Zelda, and not ripping out the heart of a game and calling it DLC I'm happy. How many similarities were there between Windwaker and Link To The Past? Its not simply a case of remake. Xenoblade Chronicles X looks like a completely fresh game but continues a narrative formed earlier in the series. Splatoon simply looks insane.

Some of my recent favourites that are completely different to the rest and are from Japan.... Dark Souls, Monster Hunter, Bayonetta. Hyrule Warriors looks like a fairly original spin on the Dynasty Warrior series and that is as close to a remake that I can see. Can't wait for Splatoon.

I did once view things the same as you but what changed my point of view was getting sick of Fifa and FPS and realising how few games outside of these are on x-box and playstation that are of real quality with any innovation.

Everyone wants Studio Ghibli to continue except the guys who count, also incidentally the director of their best films (IMO).

Maybe Nintendo isn't relevant to mainstream gamers... but then again maybe mainstream games are piles of rubbish that you can get very sick of very quickly. Take for example how many people have read the Canterbury Tales and how many have read 50 Shades of Grey. Mainstream is mass produced rubbish more often than not.

Fate Amenable To Change · 07-08-2014 02:05AM

gizmo wrote: »

From the perspective of someone who loves the action side of the Japanese industry's output, in the last generation or so alone they've given us Bayonetta, Vanquish, The Wonderful 101, Lollipop Chainsaw, Killer is Dead, Desperate Heroes 1 & 2, Earth Defense Force, Metal Gear Rising Revengeance, Binary Domain, Anarchy Reigns, Shadows of the Damned, Ninja Gaiden II and more.

Hell, that's not even including the non-J RPGs coming from the region such as the Souls series, Dragon's Dogma, Nier and other interesting games such as Deadly Premonition and Catherine.

Personally I would take many of those games over most Western-developed games in the last while so, bearing that in mind, I find it hard to criticise them for a lack of ideas.

What I find sad is that, in return, those games have, regardless of their critical reception, seen nearly universally mediocre sales. In light of that, I find it rather unsurprising that they've begun devoting resources to re-releasing classic titles, especially since they've been fairly well received so far, Konami's Silent Hill efforts notwithstanding.

On that note, at a platform-holder level Sony are also guilty of the remake criticism too, yet as someone who never owned a PS2 and whose ability to play PS2 games died with his 60GB PS3, I welcomed the ClassicsHD collection with open arms.

Still holding on for Vanquish 2... the first one had everything from massive robots to evil Russians to space battles and some seriously charismatic NPCs.

Dont be at yourself · 07-08-2014 02:33AM

The Japanese industry dominated right up until the PS2/XB1 generation, when they had a huge portion of the big, triple-A titles (MGS, Resi4), and with a few notable exceptions, Western studios weren't at the races.

That's changed though, and while Western developers have become world leaders (Ubi Montreal, Naughty Dog, Bungie, Infinity Ward), Japanese developers and publishers have stayed in their goldfish bowl and re-hashed the same genres and franchises, with scant regard for the advancements made elsewhere -- and that's not a big surprise, because many of the big Western games don't have much traction in Japan.

They're showing some signs of modernizing, partnering with Western studios and so on, but Japanese companies are slow-moving, and a huge culture gap has developed between East and West in gaming, which won't be bridged easily.

Retr0gamer · 07-08-2014 08:05AM

With all the talk of how Japanese gaming is stale and uninventive they managed to produce unequivocally the most important game of this generation with Demon's Souls. Nearly everything is clamouring to copy it and near every kickstarter has an obligation to say 'inspired by Dark Souls'.

CiDeRmAn · 07-08-2014 08:06AM

I found the content on the PS2 to be the most incredible and varied of all the generations of hardware.
I could choose from low budget independent titles, high budget blockbusters from around the world, localised releases of Japanese budget titles and lots of niche games from all over the place.
Running the gamut from Fantavision to Ico, from Ibara to Coldwinter, a cracking machine with content from the world over, but the bulk of the brilliance emerging from Japan.
Given the Xbox's origins it's hardly news that it was well supported by western developers, seeing as it was a PC in an ugly box.
But I would suggest those who count out Japanese game development are mistaken, and I'm probably not the only one tiring of much repetition and lack of innovation in many of the headline titles from European/US devs.

A chat about the Japanese gaming industry

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