Israel - Palestine Conflict. Mod note in OP - updated 1st August

fedor.2. · 06-08-2014 04:30PM

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

Israel is in a far stronger position today.

1.Egypt is bankrupt and divided.
2.Syria and Iraq are tearing themselves apart.
3.Hezbollah in Lebanon have been deterred from attacking Israel out of fear of getting the same treatment as Hamas.
4.Iran must be doubting whether they can fire rockets at Israel and hit their targets and must fear Israel reprisal if they do.
5.Hamas are now isolated and in rag order with few avenues of replenishing their rocket supplies. The will or capacity of the Palestinian Arabs to attack Israel is lower than it has been in decades.
6.The U.S. public support Israel while the shrill anti-semitic European leaders weak and divided are impotent.
7.Russia and China and India are engaged in wars against Islamic insurgents and can only sympathize with Israel.
8. The Israel economy is strong and the discovery of oil and gas fields in Israeli waters looks promising.

You're right, these are all pretty positive points

Tail Docker · 06-08-2014 04:31PM

fedor.2. wrote: »

How would you like Israel to be held to account? In an ideal world, bearing in mind that this isn't one, what exactly would you like to see happen?

How about a War Crimes Tribunal and IDF Members found to have committed atrocities being prosecuted? Or does that only happen when the perpetrators are Serbian?

end of the road · 06-08-2014 04:31PM

wes wrote: »

I asked you to provide evidence of the above earlier? I also posted a reminder a few times as well.

I have never heard of rense before today, and for the life of me, I can't understand why you haven't provide example of why this site is Anti-semetic.

because he can't

fedor.2. · 06-08-2014 04:33PM

NotASheeple wrote: »

Do you ever read any of the posts in this thread? Quite a few contributors have already made their suggestions since this thread started. Now why don't you actually strain yourself and go find them. Painful yes, but reading the thread properly would prevent the need to keep asking questions that have already answered. But I'm guressing now that being lazy, you'll probably ask me to do it for you.

Oh, we can't ask questions now? Would you rather we just all trade insults, and get nowhere. Unlike you I'd like all the facts, plus a wide range of opinions, before I make my mind up

Azwaldo55 · 06-08-2014 04:34PM

Tail Docker wrote: »

How about a War Crimes Tribunal and IDF Members found to have committed atrocities being prosecuted? Or does that only happen when the perpetrators are Serbian?

Bring it on!

Any trial of IDF members will show that terrorist safe houses, terrorist command centers, rocket launchers, rocket stores and depots were hit.

The civilians deaths were caused by Hamas using their own people as human shields while firing rockets at Israeli civilians.

It will be interesting how silent the Israel haters will be when the IDF are vindicated.

hju6 · 06-08-2014 04:34PM

fedor.2. wrote: »

All you do is post links from suspect sources. Do you just copy the first thing that pops up in your Google search. You then speak of laziness, how dare you.

What a crap rebuff

Do you know how to post a link, or is there none that suit your agenda?

I posted the same story from various media outlets, none suited you so you asked me to read about the editor of the NYT who you don't like trust either,

What is your actual point on this thread, apart from spouting YOUR OPINION and answering questions with questions?

fedor.2. · 06-08-2014 04:34PM

Tail Docker wrote: »

How about a War Crimes Tribunal and IDF Members found to have committed atrocities being prosecuted? Or does that only happen when the perpetrators are Serbian?

You know that won't happen. So, what's left? Just continue to not buy Israeli carrots?

wes · 06-08-2014 04:35PM

fedor.2. wrote: »

Oh, we can't ask questions now?

In fairness, if what your asking for has been answered already, its just going to annoy people, if they are asked the same thing over and over again.

Tuisceanch · 06-08-2014 04:35PM

Gaza war images you won't see on Israeli TV

Mutilated corpses and children’s funerals are just some of the photos taken by young Palestinian photojournalists, who show their work in museums and on social media.

The article is here
http://tinyurl.com/pdtfm6s

It is from Haaretz. I believe that is a credible source although maybe they are populated with self hating Jews. I don't know, but if we discredit everybody just because we can't except the unpalatable truth, then maybe best to retreat to your garden and shut the world out.

Here are some photographs from one of the photo journalists mentioned in the article

http://english.al-akhbar.com/photoblogs/palestine-resists

He is admittedly a Palestinian and maybe even a Muslim so maybe we should just ignore his testimony on that principle.

For the sake of balance I would ask if somebody could post some photos and footage which they believe would act as a counter balance.

Be warned that if your curiosity causes you to access his Facebook page you will come across of footage of a mass shooting. However the report is in Arabic and, like much of war crimes,difficult to prove. I suppose you will just have to weigh up the evidence and come to your own conclusion and let's be frank who has the time or interest to do that?

WakeUp · 06-08-2014 04:35PM

fedor.2. wrote: »

How would you like Israel to be held to account? In an ideal world, bearing in mind that this isn't one, what exactly would you like to see happen?

If they are guilty of war crimes and breaches of international law I would like to see those responsible brought to justice and held to account. If they have nothing to hide cooperate with the world and show us .or continue to live in their own world by their own rules - a pariah state operating outside the boundaries of the civilised world.

end of the road · 06-08-2014 04:36PM

porsche959 wrote: »

You could have found it yourself in five seconds googling. Not sure why this was beyond you.

because you made the claim, so its up to you to prove it

wes · 06-08-2014 04:36PM

fedor.2. wrote: »

You know that won't happen. So, what's left? Just continue to not buy Israeli carrots?

I am sure the Apartheid regime in South Africa were saying similar things, once upon a time.

porsche959 · 06-08-2014 04:36PM

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

Bring it on!

Any trial of IDF members will show that terrorist safe houses, terrorist command centers, rocket launchers, rocket stores and depots were hit.

The civilians deaths were caused by Hamas using their own people as human shields while firing rockets at Israeli civilians.

It will be interesting how silent the Israel haters will be when the IDF are vindicated.

The IDF is - relatively - accountable as an institution. Few armies are as accountable.

Israeli state also relatively good at bringing high level offenders to account in general. A former president is in prison.

It's amusing that so many citizens of Ireland, a country that failed to bring the obviously and notoriously corrupt Haughey to justice, like to take the moral high ground regarding Israel.

As for the news that Israel sterilised African immigrants, that is disgraceful, but I'm not entirely sure that a country that covered up institutional sex abuse scandals for decades is in a position to take moral high ground.

fedor.2. · 06-08-2014 04:37PM

hju6 wrote: »

What a crap rebuff

Do you know how to post a link, or is there none that suit your agenda?

I posted the same story from various media outlets, none suited you so you asked me to read about the editor of the NYT who you don't like trust either,

What is your actual point on this thread, apart from spouting YOUR OPINION ?

Am I not entitled to, nah? I've said nothing derogatory, I've insulted nobody. I'm just not going to believe some of the, obviously biased, material posted here.

NotASheeple · 06-08-2014 04:38PM

fedor.2. wrote: »

That's just a tabloid

Oh wait it's a tabloid, so it's obviously pro-Palestinian :rolleyes: .

Anyway here, try and deny this....

Dirty tricks won't fix Israel's 'image problem'

The Prime Minister’s Office wants to set up a unit of students to operate on social networks as undercover spokesmen for the government and its actions. And it’s right to want to do so: At a time when clouds of disbelief frequently hover over Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, it has no choice but to recruit new spokesmen, people whose credibility is presently intact. This is a cynical plan that reflects not only the depth of international suspicion of Israel’s government, but also the fact that Netanyahu and his staff favor public diplomacy tricks above all else.

Now that's from Haaretz, which is not a tabloid. Interested to see how you'll try and wriggle this on.

A solution to Israel’s “image problem” won’t be achieved by dirty tricks. To accomplish that, what’s needed is a change in policy.

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/1.541370

wes · 06-08-2014 04:38PM

porsche959 wrote: »

The IDF is - relatively - accountable as an insitution. Few armies are as accountable.

Yeah, thats complete nonsense right there, as evidence by the pages and pages of examples in this thread that clearly show otherwise.

blackwhite · 06-08-2014 04:40PM

end of the road wrote: »

because he can't

In fairness, the website mentioned includes such gems as "Jews more insane than the rest", "Sociopathy Of Jews & Total Gaza Extermination", "how Jews run the Internet" on it's main page, and also links to a number of holocaust denial websites.

It doesn't change the fact that the IDF have used human shields in the past - but linking to websites with blatant agendas such as this (and conversely, linking to the ADL on the other side of the coin) does absolutely nothing to further any arguments.

WakeUp · 06-08-2014 04:40PM

fedor.2. wrote: »

You know that won't happen. So, what's left? Just continue to not buy Israeli carrots?

Why do you think that won't happen?..

fedor.2. · 06-08-2014 04:41PM

wes wrote: »

In fairness, if what your asking for has been answered already, its just going to annoy people, if they are asked the same thing over and over again.

It's been answered what people would ideally like to happen, not realistically what is going to happen.

wes · 06-08-2014 04:41PM

fedor.2. wrote: »

I'm just not going to believe some of the, obviously biased, material posted here.

Multiple source were provided, from all sides of the political spectrum, and from various countries. I quite frankly, have never seen a poster go to such trouble to provide so many sources, and you denied them all as being "obviously biased", and didn't provide a basis as to why each and every single source was biased. Seems pretty clear the only obvious bias lies with you.

Tuisceanch · 06-08-2014 04:42PM

fedor.2. wrote: »

Oh, we can't ask questions now? Would you rather we just all trade insults, and get nowhere. Unlike you I'd like all the facts, plus a wide range of opinions, before I make my mind up

Well if you don't feel you will get that here then I've posted many different resources regarding this topic and if you research online you can find out what you need to know. Wouldn't that be a better idea than wasting time here.If you like I can recommend some books and videos on the subject?

hju6 · 06-08-2014 04:42PM

fedor.2. wrote: »

Am I not entitled to, nah? I've said nothing derogatory, I've insulted nobody. I'm just not going to believe some of the, obviously biased, material posted here.

Correct you have said nothing

You have insulted my intelligence

the material posted on this thread is all linked to credible authors , yet you believe only your agenda,

And you have done absolutely nothing to promote your agenda in any credible way.

end of the road · 06-08-2014 04:42PM

fedor.2. wrote: »

How would you like Israel to be held to account? In an ideal world, bearing in mind that this isn't one, what exactly would you like to see happen?

dear old loony benny on trial in the hague for war crimes and anything else they can get him on along with the rest of his government, wishful thinking though as murika will protect them while preaching to other countries

NotASheeple · 06-08-2014 04:43PM

fedor.2. wrote: »

Oh, we can't ask questions now? Would you rather we just all trade insults, and get nowhere. Unlike you I'd like all the facts, plus a wide range of opinions, before I make my mind up

Since when is your username porsche959? I was speaking to them not you.

I counted 7 posts which directly addressed him/her, they shredded his/her argument and all done in a mature respectful manner. Quite like yourself, I've seen some very knowledgeable posters here hand it to you and you also conveniently ignored them. Now I don't blame you for running away really, but please, quit the nonsense and the excuses.

fedor.2. · 06-08-2014 04:45PM

WakeUp wrote: »

Why do you think that won't happen?..

I honestly don't believe, that any Israeli, will be put on trial for war crimes.
There may be some investigations, but those will be internal, and no fault or wrongdoing will be found.

The international community will eventually just concentrate on the peace negotiations going forward, and that will be that.

wes · 06-08-2014 04:45PM

fedor.2. wrote: »

It's been answered what people would ideally like to happen, not realistically what is going to happen.

Who is to say, what is realistically going to happen? Sure, if just a few short years before the collapse of the Soviet Union, if someone has said that think that would happen, they would have been laughed out of the room. The world in unpredictable, and even what someone consider to be unlikely can be the most likely thing to happen in the world.

fedor.2. · 06-08-2014 04:46PM

NotASheeple wrote: »

Oh wait it's a tabloid, so it's obviously pro-Palestinian :rolleyes: .

Anyway here, try and deny this....

Now that's from Haaretz, which is not a tabloid. Interested to see how you'll try and wriggle this on.

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/1.541370

No wriggling. I appreciate the link, thanks.

fedor.2. · 06-08-2014 04:47PM

NotASheeple wrote: »

Since when is your username porsche959? I was speaking to them not you.

I counted 7 posts which directly addressed him/her, they shredded his/her argument and all done in a mature respectful manner. Quite like yourself, I've seen some very knowledgeable posters here hand it to you and you also conveniently ignored them. Now I don't blame you really, but please, quit the nonsense and the excuses.

Apology accepted

WakeUp · 06-08-2014 04:49PM

fedor.2. wrote: »

I honestly don't believe, that any Israeli, will be put on trial for war crimes.
There may be some investigations, but those will be internal, and no fault or wrongdoing will be found.

The international community will eventually just concentrate on the peace negotiations going forward, and that will be that.

But why will that be that..with regard to the international community..why? if the international community believe Israel has a case to answer why wont it happen? can you be specific..

RustyNut · 06-08-2014 04:50PM

fedor.2. wrote: »

I honestly don't believe, that any Israeli, will be put on trial for war crimes.
There may be some investigations, but those will be internal, and no fault or wrongdoing will be found.

The international community will eventually just concentrate on the peace negotiations going forward, and that will be that.

How do you feel about that?

Israel - Palestine Conflict. **Mod note in OP - updated 1st August**

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Israel - Palestine Conflict. Mod note in OP - updated 1st August