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Israel - Palestine Conflict. **Mod note in OP - updated 1st August**

1…8687899192…174

Comments

  • #2642
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,608 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    shewasdiesel wrote: »
    Indeed, untill the day they question Hamas

    But thats not really true.. Youtube a clip called 'Crime and Punishment in Gaza'.

    The even kept their last IDF captive alive for five years until his release.

    However I get what you're trying to put across ~ Hamas are a very dangerous group to those who oppose them.. You know last week Palestinians in Gaza held a demonstration against the war ~ and Hamas arrested and executed twenty of the protestors, apparently anti-war protestors are Israeli collaborators!!.


  • #2643
    Gringo180
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    shewasdiesel wrote: »
    Indeed, untill the day they question Hamas

    Your a blatant liar. Show me some evidence Hamas would slit the throat of any person just because they are westerners??


  • #2644
    SeaBreezes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,563 ✭✭✭SeaBreezes


    shewasdiesel wrote: »
    You must be under the delusion the military are the only people who use firearms, can your assumptions and prejudices get anything right ? You boasted you knew about guns and then proved you didn't. You got caught out bluffing again, get over it.[/]

    Please stop derailing the topic.


  • #2645
    WakeUp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    shewasdiesel wrote: »
    Yes, I forgot the mantra, I must take Hamas's side, they are not terrorists at all.
    Hamas would slit your 'infidel' throat in a heartbeat, while screaming about your "decadent western movies."

    Another poster has already asked you this and you haven't answered. have you an evidence to back up this assertion of yours , it's a big claim you're making , about Hamas slitting people's throats..evidence please. or are you just spoofing and making things up...


  • #2646
    shewasdiesel
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 138 ✭✭shewasdiesel


    Gringo180 wrote: »
    Your a blatant liar. Show me some evidence Hamas would slit the throat of any person just because they are westerners??

    I'd like to see you question Hamas's actions in Gaza and see how long you last

    "In June 2011, the Independent Commission for Human Rights based in Ramallah published a report whose findings included that the Palestinians in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip were subjected in 2010 to an "almost systematic campaign" of human rights abuses by the Palestinian Authority and Hamas, as well as by Israeli authorities, with the security forces belonging to the PA and Hamas being responsible for torture, arrests and arbitrary detentions.[339]

    In 2012, the Human Rights Watch presented a 43 page long list of human rights violation committed by Hamas. Among actions attributed to Hamas the HRW report mentions beatings with metal clubs and rubber hoses, hanging of alleged collaborationists with Israel, and torture of 102 individuals. According to the report, Hamas also tortured civil society activists and peaceful protesters. Reflecting on the captivity of Gilad Shalit, the HRW report described it as "cruel and inhuman". The report also slams Hamas for harassment of people based on so called morality offenses and for media censorship.[340][341] In a public statement Joe Stork, the deputy Middle East director of HRW claimed, "after five years of Hamas rule in Gaza, its criminal justice system reeks of injustice, routinely violates detainees' rights and grants impunity to abusive security services." Hamas responded by denying charges and describing them as "politically motivated""


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  • #2647
    WakeUp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    shewasdiesel wrote: »
    I'd like to see you question Hamas in Gaza and see how long you last

    "In June 2011, the Independent Commission for Human Rights based in Ramallah published a report whose findings included that the Palestinians in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip were subjected in 2010 to an "almost systematic campaign" of human rights abuses by the Palestinian Authority and Hamas, as well as by Israeli authorities, with the security forces belonging to the PA and Hamas being responsible for torture, arrests and arbitrary detentions.[339]

    In 2012, the Human Rights Watch presented a 43 page long list of human rights violation committed by Hamas. Among actions attributed to Hamas the HRW report mentions beatings with metal clubs and rubber hoses, hanging of alleged collaborationists with Israel, and torture of 102 individuals. According to the report, Hamas also tortured civil society activists and peaceful protesters. Reflecting on the captivity of Gilad Shalit, the HRW report described it as "cruel and inhuman". The report also slams Hamas for harassment of people based on so called morality offenses and for media censorship.[340][341] In a public statement Joe Stork, the deputy Middle East director of HRW claimed, "after five years of Hamas rule in Gaza, its criminal justice system reeks of injustice, routinely violates detainees' rights and grants impunity to abusive security services." Hamas responded by denying charges and describing them as "politically motivated""

    That's nice. now about your assertion that Hamas would slit the throats of any westerners in a heartbeat..evidence please?...


  • #2648
    Son Of A Vidic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    Aurelia Melted Surfer wrote: »
    There are westerners working in Gaza, so far as I know Israel are a bigger threat to them than Hamas.

    I have several medical (Doctors & Nurses) friends, who have carried out medical work in Gaza hospitals and the wider the community through the years. Along with the wider civilian population, they also met, interacted and treated Hamas members. Not only were they never threatened or intimidated, but all told me they felt a genuine warmth and fondness for the Irish from all sections of the comminity. Two of them worked in Gaza at the time (2009 I think) some Al Qaeda affiliated group tried to establish itself. But even when Hamas eradicated the Al Qaeda threat, my friends were naturally very fearful and were on the verge of coming home to Ireland. They ended up not coming home, because Hamas provided assurances that their safety would be guaranteed at all times.Their volunteerism and help for the people of Gaza was very much appreciated by all sections of the community there. One former colleague has been over and back 5-6 times I think and not only has he not had his throat cut, but he hasn't even suffered a scratch.


  • #2649
    shewasdiesel
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 138 ✭✭shewasdiesel


    WakeUp wrote: »
    That's nice. now about your assertion that Hamas would slit the throats of any westerners in a heartbeat..evidence please?...

    As Human rights watch has already verified
    Anyone who questions Hamas in Gaza does, simples, they are terrorists.


  • #2650
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    shewasdiesel wrote: »
    I'd like to see you question Hamas's actions in Gaza and see how long you last

    "In June 2011, the Independent Commission for Human Rights based in Ramallah published a report whose findings included that the Palestinians in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip were subjected in 2010 to an "almost systematic campaign" of human rights abuses by the Palestinian Authority and Hamas, as well as by Israeli authorities, with the security forces belonging to the PA and Hamas being responsible for torture, arrests and arbitrary detentions.[339]

    In 2012, the Human Rights Watch presented a 43 page long list of human rights violation committed by Hamas. Among actions attributed to Hamas the HRW report mentions beatings with metal clubs and rubber hoses, hanging of alleged collaborationists with Israel, and torture of 102 individuals. According to the report, Hamas also tortured civil society activists and peaceful protesters. Reflecting on the captivity of Gilad Shalit, the HRW report described it as "cruel and inhuman". The report also slams Hamas for harassment of people based on so called morality offenses and for media censorship.[340][341] In a public statement Joe Stork, the deputy Middle East director of HRW claimed, "after five years of Hamas rule in Gaza, its criminal justice system reeks of injustice, routinely violates detainees' rights and grants impunity to abusive security services." Hamas responded by denying charges and describing them as "politically motivated""


    Yes it's a broken society which is under enormous pressure and ripe for extremism. But if a civilised democracy like Israel is carrying out the same excesses on a much elevated scale and are the principal actor in the piece doesn't it behove them to set a better example.


  • #2651
    shewasdiesel
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 138 ✭✭shewasdiesel


    Corvus Maximus wrote: »
    I have several medical (Doctors & Nurses) friends, who have carried out medical work in Gaza hospitals and the wider the community through the years. Along with the wider civilian population, they also met, interacted and treated Hamas members. Not only were they never threatened or intimidated, but all told me they felt a genuine warmth and fondness for the Irish from all sections of the comminity. Two of them worked in Gaza at the time (2009 I think) some Al Qaeda affiliated group tried to establish itself. But even when Hamas eradicated the Al Qaeda threat, my friends were naturally very fearful and were on the verge of coming home to Ireland. They ended up not coming home, because Hamas provide assurances that their safety would be guaranteed at all times.Their volunteerism and help for the people of Gaza was very much appreciated by all sections of the community there. One former colleague has been over and back 5-6 times I think and not only has he not had his throat cut, but he hasn't even suffered a scratch.

    Has he tried asking many questions about Hamas torturing and killing Palestinians ?


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  • #2652
    shewasdiesel
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 138 ✭✭shewasdiesel


    Tuisceanch wrote: »
    Yes it's a broken society which is under enormous pressure and ripe for extremism. But if a civilised democracy like Israel is carrying out the same excesses on a much elevated scale and are the principal actor in the piece doesn't it behove them to set a better example.

    Oh indeed the IDF are currently the worse offender, but Hamas are not someone to be supported either.


  • #2653
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    Corvus Maximus wrote: »
    I have several medical (Doctors & Nurses) friends, who have carried out medical work in Gaza hospitals and the wider the community through the years. Along with the wider civilian population, they also met, interacted and treated Hamas members. Not only were they never threatened or intimidated, but all told me they felt a genuine warmth and fondness for the Irish from all sections of the comminity. Two of them worked in Gaza at the time (2009 I think) some Al Qaeda affiliated group tried to establish itself. But even when Hamas eradicated the Al Qaeda threat, my friends were naturally very fearful and were on the verge of coming home to Ireland. They ended up not coming home, because Hamas provide assurances that their safety would be guaranteed at all times.Their volunteerism and help for the people of Gaza was very much appreciated by all sections of the community there. One former colleague has been over and back 5-6 times I think and not only has he not had his throat cut, but he hasn't even suffered a scratch.


    It's great to hear from somebody like you as it brings a more humane level to the discussion.Thank you very much for relating this.


  • #2654
    c_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    shewasdiesel wrote: »
    As Human rights watch has already verified
    Anyone who questions Hamas in Gaza does, simples, they are terrorists.

    So no westeners killed by Hamas then. Very good.

    Meanwhile the IDF seems to be the main threat, looks like a British national killed over the weekend - http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-28644714


  • #2655
    Gringo180
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    shewasdiesel wrote: »
    As Human rights watch has already verified
    Anyone who questions Hamas in Gaza does, simples, they are terrorists.

    Do you want me to list all the human right violations Israel has committed against civilians, by amnesty international, human rights watch, the U.N etc.??? They far outweigh the ones Hamas has committed and this coming from a supposed democracy:confused::confused:


  • #2656
    WakeUp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    shewasdiesel wrote: »
    As Human rights watch has already verified
    Anyone who questions Hamas in Gaza does, simples, they are terrorists.

    But that isn't what I asked you is it . or relevant to your assertion. have you any evidence to back up your claim? or is your opinion a fact or some nonsense like that. unless you can provide evidence of the mighty claim - Hamas would slit a westerners throat in a heartbeat - then it's quite obvious that you are spoofing/making things up/talking sh1te..so..evidence please?...


  • #2657
    Gringo180
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    shewasdiesel wrote: »
    Has he tried asking many questions about Hamas torturing and killing Palestinians ?

    Again I will ask for evidence of Hamas torturing and killing innocent civilians.


  • #2658
    hju6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭hju6


    An open letter for the people in Gaza

    Paola Manduca a, Iain Chalmers b, Derek Summerfield c, Mads Gilbert d, Swee Ang e, on behalf of 24 signatories

    http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2814%2961044-8/fulltext

    'The massacre in Gaza spares no one, and includes the disabled and sick in hospitals, children playing on the beach or on the roof top, with a large majority of non-combatants. Hospitals, clinics, ambulances, mosques, schools, and press buildings have all been attacked, with thousands of private homes bombed, clearly directing fire to target whole families killing them within their homes, depriving families of their homes by chasing them out a few minutes before destruction. An entire area was destroyed on July 20, leaving thousands of displaced people homeless, beside wounding hundreds and killing at least 70—this is way beyond the purpose of finding tunnels. None of these are military objectives. These attacks aim to terrorise, wound the soul and the body of the people, and make their life impossible in the future, as well as also demolishing their homes and prohibiting the means to rebuild.'

    That's terrorism


  • #2659
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    shewasdiesel wrote: »
    Oh indeed the IDF are currently the worse offender, but Hamas are not someone to be supported either.

    They are not just currently the main offender ..they have been consistently the main offender over a sustained period of time. This is not the first time and it won't be the last until the people of Israel take action against the criminals who are running their government and address the wrongs they have committed against the Palestinians. Once the Palestinians have secured a viable state then we may examine the functioning of their society in the context of our less than perfect societies.I feel however we might not be so pristine as you would have us imagine.


  • #2660
    shewasdiesel
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 138 ✭✭shewasdiesel


    Gringo180 wrote: »
    Do you want me to list all the human right violations Israel has committed against civilians, by amnesty international, human rights watch, the U.N etc.??? They far outweigh the ones Hamas has committed and this coming from a supposed democracy:confused::confused:

    Yeah please do, but I'm not going to like Hamas terrorists any more than I like Zionist terrorists.


  • #2661
    dav3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭dav3


    shewasdiesel wrote: »
    Oh indeed the IDF are currently the worse offender, but Hamas are not someone to be supported either.

    Nobody is supporting Hamas. They are however calling you out on your fox news/Israeli news-esque sensationalistic rhetoric because you do not have any evidence to back it up.


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  • #2662
    shewasdiesel
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 138 ✭✭shewasdiesel


    Tuisceanch wrote: »
    They are not just currently the main offender ..they have been consistently the main offender over a sustained period of time. This is not the first time and it won't be the last until the people of Israel take action against the criminals who are running their government and address the wrongs they have committed against the Palestinians. Once the Palestinians have secured a viable state then we may examine the functioning of their society in the context of our less than perfect societies.I feel however we might not be so pristine as you would have us imagine.

    I didn't support SF/IRA over the RUC/UDR/UDA either.
    I'm not going to jump on the Hamas support wagaon to please their supporters here.


  • #2663
    WakeUp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    shewasdiesel wrote: »
    Yeah please do, but I'm not going to like Hamas terrorists any more than I like Zionist terrorists.

    It would appear you have been caught out spoofing/making things up/talking sh1te and now you're a bit butt hurt about it. so do you have any evidence to back up your mighty claim? and it is a mighty claim.


  • #2664
    hju6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭hju6


    shewasdiesel wrote: »
    I didn't support SF/IRA over the RUC/UDR/UDA either.
    I'm not going to jump on the Hamas support wagaon to please their supporters here.

    So pointing out similarities between two terrorist organisations makes you a supporter of one of them ?


  • #2665
    Rob A. Bank
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Rob A. Bank


    I wonder how the Israelis sleep at night...

    The mass murder they are perpetrating on a practically defenceless population is the military equivalent of shooting fish in a barrel.



    (Boycott Israel ! The Israeli barcode starts with the numbers 729. However, it doesn’t necessarily appear on all Israeli products so be sure to always check the label for country of origin.)


  • #2666
    shewasdiesel
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 138 ✭✭shewasdiesel


    WakeUp wrote: »
    It would appear you have been caught out spoofing/making things up/talking sh1te and now you're a bit butt hurt about it. so do you have any evidence to back up your mighty claim? and it is a mighty claim.

    Hamas are terrorists, deal with it


  • #2667
    Gringo180
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    shewasdiesel wrote: »
    Yeah please do, but I'm not going to like Hamas terrorists any more than I like Zionist terrorists.

    21 violations against humanity by the U.N alone in January 2013. Do you not understand that Zionist and Israeli terrorism spawned liberation armies like Hamas and the P.L.O??


  • #2668
    WakeUp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    shewasdiesel wrote: »
    Hamas are terrorists, deal with it

    What do you mean deal with it no need to be butt hurt about things. where is your evidence for the claim you made? where is it..present it. and if you don't or can't it's quite obvious and apparent that you were spoofing/making things up/talking sh1te. So?...


  • #2669
    shewasdiesel
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 138 ✭✭shewasdiesel


    Gringo180 wrote: »
    21 violations against humanity by the U.N alone in January 2013. Do you not understand that Zionist and Israeli terrorism spawned liberation armies like Hamas and the P.L.O??

    I've heard all this before how the Brits spawned SF/IRA and their terrorism, therefore all IRA terrorism was actually the fault of the Brits. It didn't wash then, it doesn't wash now either.


  • #2670
    Son Of A Vidic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    shewasdiesel wrote: »
    Has he tried asking many questions about Hamas torturing and killing Palestinians ?

    If you read my post correctly, you should have noticed I mentioned I had several medical friends who have worked there. Now If you knew anything the daily workings of a medical professional, which you patently don't. Then you wouldn't be asking a nonsensical, silly question. A question which would be more suited perhaps to a Garda who went out there. Medical staff are dedicated to life saving and healing, not investigative police work. Here's also another point for you to digest. Medical staff don't pass judgement, discriminate against, or investigate those whom they treat.


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  • #2671
    Gringo180
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    shewasdiesel wrote: »
    I've heard all this before how the Brits spawned SF/IRA and their terrorism, therefore all IRA terrorism was actually the fault of the Brits. It didn't wash then, it doesn't wash now either.

    Its true whether it washes with you or not.


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