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Israel - Palestine Conflict. **Mod note in OP - updated 1st August**

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    Gaza school attack denounced as 'criminal act' by UN chief.



    Seems this latest attack on a school isn't going to be so easily brushed aside.

    I vaguely remember the IDF apologising in previous conflicts. These days - with the force of American media at their back - they never apologise. The UN is just dismissed as anti-semetic.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,563 ✭✭✭SeaBreezes


    I wonder did Ishmael order IDF tanks to repeatedly shell the Al Aqsa hospital in Gaza?



    The IDF has a disgracefully track record for being involved in such incidents. Most people have long since moved past coincidence. The Gaza strip is one of the most surveilled & monitored strips of land on the planet. The IDF are pioneers of surveillance drone technology and have closely collaborated with the US & shared such technology. So I find it hard to swallow when fire support/suppression is being called in, that it's a case of "Oh we didn't realise that hospital had five stories and got in the way of an incoming rounds trajectory."

    The IDF has well established previous form for attacking critical civilian infrastructure, food warehouses, schools, hospitals and UN facilities.The IDF also has an impressive record for repeated breaches of The Geneva Convention and War Crimes.The recent incident where a UN school gave it's GPS coordinates to the IDF on 17 occasions. Yet still suffered a devastating attack doesn't surprises me, or those who can remember not only how they've previously conducted themselves in Gaza, but also in Lebanon.

    The IDF bombing and destruction of UN PATROL BASE KHIAM, SOUTHERN LEBANON.JULY 25, 2006, being another infamous incident in their impressive legacy of war crimes. 4 UN onservers were wiped out at that observer base. Bravely and while under IDF fire, they logged and cataloged IDF breaches





    Then how could we forget the infamous Qana massacre in Southern Lebanon, in April 1996, where 106 Lebanese civilians were killed in a direct IDF attack on a UN compound that was sheltering refugees.
    [


    Maniac, I can appreciate you trying to use logic as to why some of these shocking incidents may have occurred. But I think it's a pointless exercise. You operate in an Army that generally tries to adhere to the rules of engagement and the Geneva Convention. The IDF are a rogue army that operates outside the rules of war. So I think there is no point in trying to rationalise their brutal actions. Throughout their various military crusades, they have consistently shown that they have no regard for the lives of UN personnel, or especially the lives of innocent Palestinian/Lebaneese civilians.

    And this morning I awoke to the news, that another UN compound sheltering civilians was hit. Ten more innocent civilians were killed and 35 wounded. The IDF were conducting strikes in the area and UN staff on the scene & eye witnesses have blamed them. The UNRWA spokesman Christopher Guinness, said earlier that they always give the IDF specific coordinates of their buildings. He also strongly emphasised that they always notify the IDF well in advance. Regarding the movements of all their UN vehicles and the areas they will be operating in. Unfortunately that didn't save Dr Bashir al-Hajjar, who was travelling in a UN vehicle when he was blown apart. You know, sometimes we just have to call a spade a spade. Sadly the brutal & savage behaviour of the IDF, has repeatedly spoken for itself down the years and continues to do so today. As far as a lot of people are concerned, they ran out of excuses a long, long time ago.

    Well said Corvus. And still, no war crimes by Israel are punished.

    Boycott all goods from this awful regime.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    In relation to a post critical of the reporting on RTE ..I wonder if anybody has access to any resources that describe the role of news wires in this reporting and to what extent they have journalists active in the field providing independent reporting?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Gaza school attack denounced as 'criminal act' by UN chief.



    Seems this latest attack on a school isn't going to be so easily brushed aside.


    You're one of lifes optimists. They've gotten away with broad daylight colonisation and brutality for nearly 50 years, and I don't see that changing short term.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭jonnny68


    Israel are fast becoming universally despised for the murder and slaughter of innocent Palestinians, it's sickening that nothing is really been done to stop them


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 138 ✭✭shewasdiesel


    jonnny68 wrote: »
    Israel are fast becoming universally despised for the murder and slaughter of innocent Palestinians, it's sickening that nothing is really been done to stop them

    They've always been, it doesn't really bother them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Awkward Badger


    Nodin wrote: »
    You're one of lifes optimists. They've gotten away with broad daylight colonisation and brutality for nearly 50 years, and I don't see that changing short term.

    I doubt they will be held accountable or that anything will change realistically. But the UN secretary general saying it was a "criminal act in gross violation of international humanitarian law" seems to be a step up from "Lets have peace", "Make efforts to protect civilians".

    Its more accusation of war crimes than condemning actions.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭h2005


    Gaza school attack denounced as 'criminal act' by UN chief.



    Seems this latest attack on a school isn't going to be so easily brushed aside.
    As long as the US has a veto in the UN no meaningful action will be taken.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    h2005 wrote: »
    As long as the US has a veto in the UN no meaningful action will be taken.

    I highly doubt the US would Veto if war crimes are declared.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    Its a sad world that we live in when countries interests and money comes before human life. Shame on the Americans for not stepping in to stop this rogue terrorist state that is Israel.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    I doubt they will be held accountable or that anything will change realistically. But the UN secretary general saying it was a "criminal act in gross violation of international humanitarian law" seems to be a step up from "Lets have peace", "Make efforts to protect civilians".

    Its more accusation of war crimes than condemning actions.
    Well, money where mouth is then please and start proceedings.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    Tuisceanch wrote: »
    In relation to a post critical of the reporting on RTE ..I wonder if anybody has access to any resources that describe the role of news wires in this reporting and to what extent they have journalists active in the field providing independent reporting?

    OK I'll answer my own question.

    Here is an URL citing quotes from Noam Chomsky wrt Media Control.

    http://tinyurl.com/nm5txej

    Some quotes from that article

    "The major media-particularly, the elite media that set the agenda that others generally follow-are corporations “selling” privileged audiences to other businesses. It would hardly come as a surprise if the picture of the world they present were to reflect the perspectives and interests of the sellers, the buyers, and the product. Concentration of ownership of the media is high and increasing. Furthermore, those who occupy managerial positions in the media, or gain status within them as commentators, belong to the same privileged elites, and might be expected to share the perceptions, aspirations, and attitudes of their associates, reflecting their own class interests as well. Journalists entering the system are unlikely to make their way unless they conform to these ideological pressures, generally by internalizing the values; it is not easy to say one thing and believe another, and those who fail to conform will tend to be weeded out by familiar mechanisms."

    “Citizens of the democratic societies should undertake a course of intellectual self defense to protect themselves from manipulation and control, and to lay the basis for meaningful democracy.”


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭TommyKnocker


    I highly doubt the US would Veto if war crimes are declared.
    Well then, doubt no more

    https://petergarciawebb.com/peter-garcia-webb/2014-08-01/us-bill-seeks-exonerate-israel-war-crimes


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭h2005


    I highly doubt the US would Veto if war crimes are declared.

    No they'll veto war crimes being declared.
    http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/against-establishing-inquiry.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Awkward Badger


    h2005 wrote: »
    As long as the US has a veto in the UN no meaningful action will be taken.

    Not by the UN no. But every step towards public acceptance and recognition of what Israel are doing is a step in the right direction.

    Surely those statements by the secretary general is a step in that direction and will make individual countries particularly the EU countries more incline to take direct action themselves which will show the UN for what it is.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    I highly doubt the US would Veto if war crimes are declared.

    The US used it's veto to support Apartheid South Africa for many many years. It also protected Ian Smiths Apartheid Rhodesia at one stage. It has consistently defended Israel through escapades far worse than this, so where your doubt comes from I don't know.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    I am 100% seriously in favour of withdrawal from the UN if no Israeli can be convicted of war crimes. It is an institution unfit for purpose.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    h2005 wrote: »
    No they'll veto war crimes being declared.
    http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/against-establishing-inquiry.html

    Yes they look like highly reliable world renowned websites. I will be clicking them post haste......


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 138 ✭✭shewasdiesel


    What's Egypt doing to help the Palestinians at the moment ? Their borders are still practically closed up . .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Not by the UN no. But every step towards public acceptance and recognition of what Israel are doing is a step in the right direction.

    Surely those statements by the secretary general is a step in that direction and will make individual countries particularly the EU countries more incline to take direct action themselves which will show the UN for what it is.


    Kofi Anan said that the Iraq war was outside the charter of the UN (illegal). Did anything happen then? The US was found guilty of waging a covert war against Nicaragua - nothing happened. The only thing that we can hope for is an upsurge in support for BDS and giving the campaign momentum for change in the medium to long term.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    I ****ing hate war

    I've been there, iv'e seen that,iv'e done that.

    That's why it hurts me to say that i really hope Israel.gets hit hard and bad soon. They need something really bad to happen so it wakes up.the general populace to call for a cease fire. I hate the thoughts of innocent people.getting hurt but if the deaths of a few Israeli civilians could stop.the blatant massacre of hundreds more Palestinian civilians then so be it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 190 ✭✭pedro1234


    bumper234 wrote: »
    I ****ing hate war

    I've been there, iv'e seen that,iv'e done that.

    That's why it hurts me to say that i really hope Israel.gets hit hard and bad soon. They need something really bad to happen so it wakes up.the general populace to call for a cease fire. I hate the thoughts of innocent people.getting hurt but if the deaths of a few Israeli civilians could stop.the blatant massacre of hundreds more Palestinian civilians then so be it.

    If Israel gets hit, it could be the start of a world war because the US will jump right in, and then who knows who could follow, Russia, China?

    Maybe I'm mad but I dunno man.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Yes they look like highly reliable world renowned websites. I will be clicking them post haste......


    Why are you being obtuse?
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-24/un-launches-probe-into-alleged-israeli-war-crimes-in-gaza/5619518

    http://www.cruz.senate.gov/files/documents/Bills/20140728_Hamas_Resolution.pdf


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    pedro1234 wrote: »
    If Israel gets hit, it could be the start of a world war because the US will jump right in, and then who knows who could follow, Russia, China?

    Maybe I'm mad but I dunno man.

    Why would Russia China do anything in regards to the Gaza situation ? CT forum is better for this kind of talk.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭h2005


    Yes they look like highly reliable world renowned websites. I will be clicking them post haste......

    They report a fact which is freely out there for anyone to educate themselves on. Here's the UNs veto list. Supplied by the UN. If you can get around to clicking that you'll see a pattern developing.
    http://www.un.org/depts/dhl/resguide/scact_veto_en.shtml


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Nodin wrote: »


    Original urls were completely different. I don’t generally look at website that are Davesopinion.com. I will look that the ones you have linked.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Original urls were completely different. I don’t generally look at website that are Davesopinion.com. I will look that the ones you have linked.

    Seeing if a bill was passed or a vote in the UN are generally easily verifable facts.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Why would Russia China do anything in regards to the Gaza situation ? CT forum is better for this kind of talk.
    You think if Iran or ISIS tried to attack Israel the US wouldn't wade in directly? It's not even a conspiracy theory, the US are already giving weapons and ammo to Israel.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    You think if Iran or ISIS tried to attack Israel the US wouldn't wade in directly? It's not even a conspiracy theory, the US are already giving weapons and ammo to Israel.

    No, I was questioning why WW3 would start if Russia, China intervened.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    I am 100% seriously in favour of withdrawal from the UN if no Israeli can be convicted of war crimes. It is an institution unfit for purpose.

    I fear it's been like that for some time....it's fine if the US and it's poodles agree with what the UN sanctions, or proposes. If that agenda goes against the script then, the above parties just do as they please. An example is the invasion of Iraq, subsequently we all saw how pointless the UN really is.


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