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Israel - Palestine Conflict. **Mod note in OP - updated 1st August**

1…6869717374…174

Comments

  • #2102
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    Tuisceanch wrote: »
    Maybe it's because they are also cruel to chickens.And maybe it's because it's symbolic of the US. Also it's size means it is very sensitive to the fluctuations in it's share price thus making it an effective target.Does that justify boycotting it? and is it effective? What do you think?

    KFC is part of the YUM group.
    Here is some information on it's corporate history
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yum!_Brands[/url

    KFC and Pizza Hut are core brands of the Yum group.

    And if you read the following passage you can see the link with the occupation. Tenuous perhaps but this is a complex area.

    "ALON GROUP
    (TLV:DRAL), (TLV:BSI) is a holding company which has several companies
    involved in the occupation. Alon Group owns Dor Alon (TLV:DRAL), a petrol company, which has
    a monopoly over the supply of petroleum to the Gaza Strip and has repeatedly halted supplies of
    its products to Gaza as part of the Israeliñimposed siege of that area. Dor Alon has several gas
    stations and convenience stores in different Israeli settlements in the West Bank. Alon Group
    also owns Blue Square (TLV:BSI), a retail chain which has branches and offices in multiple
    settlements throughout the West Bank, and is the Israeli franchisee of Pizza Hut, which has a
    restaurant in the Israeli settlement of Pisgat Ze'ev. "



    ]
    R P McMurphy wrote: »
    I dont know what KFC was mentioned

    The above might help provide a possible answer to that question.


  • #2103
    Oat23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,716 ✭✭✭✭Oat23


    Even the palestinians love KFC. This boycotting thing is getting out of hand.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/shortcuts/2013/may/19/kfc-smugglers-of-gaza


  • #2104
    Hitchens
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,124 ✭✭✭Hitchens


    Corvus Maximus wrote: »
    The pro-Zionist Murdoch likes to recruit the highest caliber of staff for his bloated global spin machine. So the thick xenophobe Hannity, has to be the apple of his eye.
    “When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews... you are talking anti-Semitism." - Martin Luther King Jr, 1967


  • #2105
    mickstupp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,764 ✭✭✭mickstupp


    JamboMac wrote: »
    I advise you to google definition of kidnap.
    Well I did as you so kindly suggested and went to google for a definition of 'kidnap', and also took the liberty of looking up 'capture' while I was there.

    kid·nap (kdnp)
    tr.v. kid·napped or kid·naped, kid·nap·ping or kid·nap·ing, kid·naps
    To seize and detain unlawfully and usually for ransom.

    cap·ture (kpchr)
    tr.v. cap·tured, cap·tur·ing, cap·tures
    1. To take captive, as by force or craft; seize.
    2. To gain possession or control of, as in a game or contest: capture the queen in chess; captured the liberal vote.
    3. To attract and hold: tales of adventure that capture the imagination.
    4. To succeed in preserving in lasting form: capture a likeness in a painting.
    n.
    1. The act of catching, taking, or winning, as by force or skill.
    2. One that has been seized, caught, or won; a catch or prize.
    3. Physics The phenomenon in which an atom or a nucleus absorbs a subatomic particle, often with the subsequent emission of radiation.

    These two look different to me. So this is certainly not accurate:
    JamboMac wrote: »
    By the way the definition kidnapped and captured by definition are identical so you can stop worrying about the use word.
    Kidnap is to capture somebody and hold for ransom.

    Despite what you seem to think, the language used is important. In this case the language used is in an attempt to grant legitimacy to the actions of the aggressors, and to deny legitimacy to the actions of the defenders. It's victim-blaming on a gargantuan scale. And when people like you dismiss these concerns out of hand, you too are complicit in denying legitimacy to those being attacked.


  • #2106
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Hitchens wrote: »
    “When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews... you are talking anti-Semitism." - Martin Luther King Jr, 1967


    He never said that, as a cursory check would show. Not that you do that as its not suiting your agenda.


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  • #2107
    h2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭h2005


    Hitchens wrote: »
    “When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews... you are talking anti-Semitism." - Martin Luther King Jr, 1967

    He never said that.


  • #2108
    JamboMac
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,953 ✭✭✭JamboMac


    mickstupp wrote: »
    Well I did as you so kindly suggested and went to google for a definition of 'kidnap', and also took the liberty of looking up 'capture' while I was there.

    kid·nap (kdnp)
    tr.v. kid·napped or kid·naped, kid·nap·ping or kid·nap·ing, kid·naps
    To seize and detain unlawfully and usually for ransom.

    cap·ture (kpchr)
    tr.v. cap·tured, cap·tur·ing, cap·tures
    1. To take captive, as by force or craft; seize.
    2. To gain possession or control of, as in a game or contest: capture the queen in chess; captured the liberal vote.
    3. To attract and hold: tales of adventure that capture the imagination.
    4. To succeed in preserving in lasting form: capture a likeness in a painting.
    n.
    1. The act of catching, taking, or winning, as by force or skill.
    2. One that has been seized, caught, or won; a catch or prize.
    3. Physics The phenomenon in which an atom or a nucleus absorbs a subatomic particle, often with the subsequent emission of radiation.

    These two look different to me. So this is certainly not accurate:


    Despite what you seem to think, the language used is important. In this case the language used is in an attempt to grant legitimacy to the actions of the aggressors, and to deny legitimacy to the actions of the defenders. It's victim-blaming on a gargantuan scale. And when people like you dismiss these concerns out of hand, you too are complicit in denying legitimacy to those being attacked.

    What you proved it is only people's perception of the word that makes the issue and the fact your accusing of dismissing things and that I'm complicit in the Israelis denying any blame is complete idiocy.

    You believe that most people read these words and can't read between the lines and are stupid enough to think Israel is not complicit, don't tar other peoples intelligence with your own.

    That's the problem some people on here think their more intelligent then others.


  • #2109
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    Hitchens wrote: »
    “When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews... you are talking anti-Semitism." - Martin Luther King Jr, 1967
    Nodin wrote: »
    He never said that, as a cursory check would show. Not that you do that as its not suiting your agenda.

    Even if any credible sources could be found to support the assertion that he had uttered these words it is difficult to imagine that he would have lent his support to the subsequent violent occupation of the west bank and the current onslaught on Gaza.


  • #2110
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Hitchens wrote: »
    “When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews... you are talking anti-Semitism." - Martin Luther King Jr, 1967

    The word Zionist no longer means what it did in 1967. Did King make that remark before or after Israel began illegally expanding into civilian lands?


  • #2111
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Largest factory in Gaza blown up.
    https://twitter.com/Beltrew/status/495306164309983232/photo/1

    It makes ice cream and sweets. The cold facilities were being used by the Red Crescent to store medicines.


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  • #2112
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    The word Zionist no longer means what it did in 1967.
    Unsurprising as the words "ceasefire", "terrorist", "civilian" and "kidnap" appear to be changing by the IDF propaganda memo.


  • #2113
    Hitchens
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,124 ✭✭✭Hitchens


    Nodin wrote: »
    He never said that, as a cursory check would show. Not that you do that as its not suiting your agenda.
    Taking a wild guess, I'd say your own agenda doesn't extend to going over there to help the victims, or anything else which would mean leaving your beloved keyboard ;)


  • #2114
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Why did you post a false quote?


  • #2115
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Hitchens wrote: »
    Taking a wild guess, I'd say your own agenda doesn't extend to going over there to help the victims, or anything else which would mean leaving your beloved keyboard ;)
    This would move us to a parallel universe where MLK did make the quote being ascribed to him?


  • #2116
    Geomy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭Geomy


    Someone is going to make a lot of money rebuilding Gaza.

    I think the whole situation is sickening, it's the equivalent of me firing 3 fireworks at the farmer's house across the road and him firing back 33 mortars and 40 rocket's. ...


  • #2117
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Hitchens wrote: »
    “When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews... you are talking anti-Semitism." - Martin Luther King Jr, 1967
    Every single match for a Google search of that quote says it's a fraud.
    Congratulations.


  • #2118
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Geomy wrote: »
    Someone is going to make a lot of money rebuilding Gaza.

    I think the whole situation is sickening, it's the equivalent of me firing 3 fireworks at the farmer's house across the road and him firing back 33 mortars and 40 rocket's. ...

    Who us going to pay? Planning approval must come from the Israelis, lol.


  • #2119
    Son Of A Vidic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    Hitchens wrote: »
    “When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews... you are talking anti-Semitism." - Martin Luther King Jr, 1967

    Ah the infamously altered bullshít quote, Zionist apologists have previously used to justify hate. I wouldn't normally grace such nonsense with a response. But let me enlighten you.

    Zionism is a hate filled, political ideology which espouses the creation of a greater Israel based on sectarian lines. They worship the State of Israel not true Judaism. You don't need to be Jewish to be a Zionist. But having strong xenophobic & far right tendencies, are preferably qualities though.

    Now here's something else you need to understand - Practitioners of Judaism (the Jewish faith) are not Zionists. They worship YHWH or what Christians call God.They do not worship the State of Israel. So not only are they not Zionists, but some of the most passionate opponents of the Zionisms, are the most devout practitioners of Judaism.

    See here - True Torah Jews Against Zionism
    http://www.truetorahjews.org/

    And here's what true followers of the Jewish faith think about Zionist murder. Please note, the abbreviation G-d in the letter means God, they are forbidden from spelling the name of God.
    The Eidah Chareidis, the non-Zionist independent rabbinical court of Jerusalem, published a letter today condemning the brutal murder of Mohammed Abu Khder, a 16-year-old Palestinian boy from Shuafat.

    While expressing great pain over the murder of the three Jewish boys, Gilad Shaar, Eyal Yifrach and Naftali Frankel, the Eidah stated that "the demand for revenge is not consistent with the directives of our holy Torah."

    The following is the text of the letter:

    Tamuz 9 5774 / July 7, 2014

    We Are Humiliated More Than All Peoples

    With pain and shock, the chief rabbi and the members of the rabbinical court heard about the heinous and foolish crime, the murder of a Palestinian boy here in Jerusalem, by people of Jewish descent. To make matters worse, according to current reports, the murder was committed by Jews in religious dress, may G-d spare us. It is understood and obvious to every Jew and every keeper of the Torah and its commandments that such an act is forbidden by the Torah, and Heaven forbid that a Jew should spill blood. And during our bitter exile, we have been commanded by the holy Torah and our Sages, and by our most recent rabbinic leaders, to bear the yoke of exile, not to provoke the other nations, Heaven forbid, and to wait for the complete redemption by the messiah, not by human intervention. All the more so when this act could lead to unknown consequences, Heaven forbid.

    Despite all our pain and mourning over the killing of the three Jewish boys, may G-d comfort their families, the demand for revenge is not consistent with the directives of our holy Torah.

    The Rabbinical Court of the Eidah strongly condemns this crime, and asks whoever has the power to calm the situation and prevent attacks against the bodies and property of the non-Jewish residents of the land, and may there be peace in our camp.
    http://www.truetorahjews.org/issues/eidahcondemns

    See here - Jews United Against Zionism http://www.nkusa.org/aboutus/zionism/opposition.cfm
    What is Zionism?

    Zionism is a relatively new thing.
    It has only existed for a century.
    Zionism redefines the true essential nature of the People of Israel, and substitutes for it a completely contradictory and opposite character - a materialistic worldly nation.
    Their misfortune is lack of what other nations possess, i.e. a state and army.
    Their salvation is possession of a state and army etc.
    This is clearly spelled out in the circles of Zionist thought, and among the leaders of the Zionist State, that through changing the nature and character of the People of Israel and by changing their way of thinking they can set before the People of Israel "their salvation" -- a state and an army.
    The People of Israel oppose the so-called "State of Israel" for four reasons:

    FIRST -- The so-called "State of Israel" is diametrically opposed and completely contradictory to the true essence and foundation of the People of Israel, as is explained

    Now go to that link above, there's a lot of reading but if nothing else. It should empower you with the ability to understand the difference between Zionism and Judaism.

    So I am glad to say for the record, that I have a deep hatred for Zionism. The sooner its hate filled ideology is removed from positions of power around the globe, the better for all lovers of peace.

    I have a deep respect for the true practitioners of Judaism. Not only have I treated many during my professional career, particular in the UK. But I am also glad to have built a strong friendship with quite a few down the years. There are amongst the most devout and peace loving people I have ever met.


  • #2120
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    Who us going to pay? Planning approval must come from the Israelis, lol.


    You can remember this in answer to the question "Where does the aid money go?"


  • #2121
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Unsurprising as the words "ceasefire", "terrorist", "civilian" and "kidnap" appear to be changing by the IDF propaganda memo.

    Ceasefire = militias have to stop, "official" military can carry on.
    Terrorist = one who attacks civilians, but only if one is a non-state actor.
    Civilian = non military Israeli citizen specifically.
    Kidnap = the capture of any Israeli, military personnel or otherwise.

    You couldn't make this stuff up, and the fact that some people seem to believe these double standards are defensible in any way is a little frightening.


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  • #2122
    eeepaulo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,486 ✭✭✭eeepaulo


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    Ceasefire = militias have to stop, "official" military can carry on.
    Terrorist = one who attacks civilians, but only if one is a non-state actor.
    Civilian = non military Israeli citizen specifically.
    Kidnap = the capture of any Israeli, military personnel or otherwise.

    You couldn't make this stuff up, and the fact that some people seem to believe these double standards are defensible in any way is a little frightening.

    Collateral damage or human shield = anyone found within the blast radius of israeli weapons


  • #2123
    Son Of A Vidic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    Donkey Oaty wrote: »
    Just in case anyone thinks things can't get too much worse for the people of Gaza, Oxfam has released a statement today that says water supplies there are "critically low" and Grim stuff indeed.

    No surprise to see that and going by what they've targeted thus far. Their to do list must be virtually completed by now.....


    Target & take out the infrastructure - Check.

    Target & take out power generation - Check.

    Target & take out sewage treatment facilities - Check.

    Target & take out the ability to supply fresh & safe drinking water - Check.

    Target & take out the ability to secure food - Check.

    Target & take out fishing boats. Especially when children are playing in them or near them - Check.

    Target & take out food markets - Check.

    Target & take men, women and children. Especially the children - Check.

    Target & take out rescuers and relatives retrieving their dead - check.

    Target & take out Paramedics - Check.

    Target & take out Ambulances - Check.

    Target & take out roads preventing medical access to the wounded - Check.

    Target & take out Doctors & Nurses - Check.

    Target & take out Hospital Operating Theatres, ICU's, Surgical Wards and Admin Offices - Check.

    Target & take out UN schools were civilians are sheltering - Check.

    Target & take out UN staff aiding in the sheltering of said civilians - check.


  • #2124
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    eeepaulo wrote: »
    Collateral damage or human shield = anyone found within the blast radius of israeli weapons

    Shoot a chicken and as it drops you'll see the armed Hamas man that was hiding behind it.


  • #2125
    Antar Bolaeisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,091 ✭✭✭Antar Bolaeisk


    Corvus Maximus wrote: »
    No surprise to see that and going by what they've targeted thus far. Their to do list must be virtually completed by now.....


    Target & take out the infrastructure - Check.

    Target & take out power generation - Check.

    Target & take out sewage treatment facilities - Check.

    Target & take out the ability to supply fresh & safe drinking water - Check.

    Target & take out the ability to secure food - Check.

    Target & take out fishing boats. Especially when children are playing in them or near them - Check.

    Target & take out food markets - Check.

    Target & take men, women and children. Especially the children - Check.

    Target & take out rescuers and relatives retrieving their dead - check.

    Target & take out Paramedics - Check.

    Target & take out Ambulances - Check.

    Target & take out roads preventing medical access to the wounded - Check.

    Target & take out Doctors & Nurses - Check.

    Target & take out Hospital Operating Theatres, ICU's, Surgical Wards and Admin Offices - Check.

    Target & take out UN schools were civilians are sheltering - Check.

    Target & take out UN staff aiding in the sheltering of said civilians - check.

    One would almost suspect Israel of giving the remaining Palestinians no choice, forcing them to leave their country once and for all.


  • #2126
    eeepaulo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,486 ✭✭✭eeepaulo


    Nodin wrote: »
    Shoot a chicken and as it drops you'll see the armed Hamas man that was hiding behind it.

    Is that why im boycotting KFC?


  • #2127
    Son Of A Vidic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    Antar Bolaeisk wrote: »
    One would almost suspect Israel of giving the remaining Palestinians no choice, forcing them to leave their country once and for all.

    Driving them out or into the sea would be the ideal outcome for Bibi.


  • #2128
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Antar Bolaeisk wrote: »
    One would almost suspect Israel of giving the remaining Palestinians no choice, forcing them to leave their country once and for all.


    The idea is that they either lie down and shut up, or suffer. Leaving would indeed probably be appreciated.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=91492276&postcount=32

    The Israeli term for the above is "mowing the lawn"/"mowing the grass"
    http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n15/mouin-rabbani/israel-mows-the-lawn
    http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Mowing-the-grass-in-Gaza-368516


  • #2129
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    Corvus Maximus wrote: »
    No surprise to see that and going by what they've targeted thus far. Their to do list must be virtually completed by now.....


    Target & take out the infrastructure - Check.

    Target & take out power generation - Check.

    Target & take out sewage treatment facilities - Check.

    Target & take out the ability to supply fresh & safe drinking water - Check.

    Target & take out the ability to secure food - Check.

    Target & take out fishing boats. Especially when children are playing in them or near them - Check.

    Target & take out food markets - Check.

    Target & take men, women and children. Especially the children - Check.

    Target & take out rescuers and relatives retrieving their dead - check.

    Target & take out Paramedics - Check.

    Target & take out Ambulances - Check.

    Target & take out roads preventing medical access to the wounded - Check.

    Target & take out Doctors & Nurses - Check.

    Target & take out Hospital Operating Theatres, ICU's, Surgical Wards and Admin Offices - Check.

    Target & take out UN schools were civilians are sheltering - Check.

    Target & take out UN staff aiding in the sheltering of said civilians - check.

    Take out Chickens, and the Cows with Guns..On going due to unanticipated stiff resistance.


  • #2130
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Antar Bolaeisk wrote: »
    One would almost suspect Israel of giving the remaining Palestinians no choice, forcing them to leave their country once and for all.
    Now there's a handy byproduct of "defending yourself". You get to grab a chunk of land that isn't yours and ignore UN regulations about annexing sovereign soil.
    Who would've guessed?


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  • #2131
    Son Of A Vidic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    Tuisceanch wrote: »
    Take out Chickens, and the Cows with Guns..On going due to unanticipated stiff resistance.

    Hamas trained poultry is nothing to be laughed at.


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