Israel - Palestine Conflict. Mod note in OP - updated 1st August

BikeQueery · 02-08-2014 11:44AM

TommyKnocker wrote: »

When I read of the cease fire yesterday it was stated as an "Unconditional" cease fire
which I took to mean ALL military actions would cease for 72 hours. Israel on Thursday
had a condition that in any cease fire they would continue to search for and destroy the
tunnel network we hear about. Unconditional to me means that this condition is also gone.
So IMHO when Israel continued, after the cease fire had come into effect, to search for
tunnels, then they had engaged in military actions which broke the cease fire.

We'll stop building settlements, then keep building settlements.
We're open to talks, then sabotage talks.
We'll stop attacking, then keep attacking.

Same old two faced hate.

ElChe32 · 02-08-2014 11:49AM

Israel has scuppered, at every opportunity, any hopes of peace in the region.
When Palestinians apply for recognition in the international community Israel's immediate response was to sign off on new settlements to be built.
They have their bully boy, The USA, sitting on the UNSC which has used it's veto "power" over 40 times in the past few decades when any resolution was brought against Israel.
Ultimately Israel do not want to see any Palestinian unity government forming.
Bleak outlook.

mickstupp · 02-08-2014 11:59AM

JamboMac wrote: »

By the way the definition kidnapped and captured by definition are identical so you can stop worrying about the use word.

What dictionary are you using? That sounds mental.

The problem is about the language being used. They call it a war, but the enemy aren't combatants or soldiers, they're terrorists. They say they capture the enemy, but their troops are kidnapped? What they're doing is trying to make the Palestinian resistance against invasion seem illegitimate.

The language used makes a great deal of difference.

eeepaulo · 02-08-2014 12:01PM

donegal__road wrote: »

Sky & Fox... that Hannity tit is on Fox.

Is Fox owned by news corp?

Ive been thinking about it anyway,

Tuisceanch · 02-08-2014 12:04PM

snubbleste wrote: »

Interfaith Dutch volunteers defend Israel on social media

Does anyone know if there is an Irish set-up?

Well I can't answer your question about Ireland but I did find this Facebook page as a consequence of reading the article you posted. It has a great picture of a protest in Derry.

https://www.facebook.com/Holland4BoycottIsraeliOccupation

From that page

"For all protesters against the Israeli assault in Gaza and killing children. Your voices are heard, and you seem to have impact! That's why Israel demands EU countries to put ristrictions on demonstrations! To mr. Netanyahu we say #Freedomofexpression sir?!?!!!!!!!"

JamboMac · 02-08-2014 12:09PM

mickstupp wrote: »

What dictionary are you using? That sounds mental.

The problem is about the language being used. They call it a war, but the enemy aren't combatants or soldiers, they're terrorists. They say they capture the enemy, but their troops are kidnapped? What they're doing is trying to make the Palestinian resistance against invasion seem illegitimate.

The language used makes a great deal of difference.

Yes the use of war is wrong but kidnap by definition is as it is the capture of somebody held for ransom it doesn't make blind bit of difference if that's 4 year old child or a soldier being on your land I don't why that is being debated but it just seems like a lot of people think they understand the language they speak but really don't this debate has vastly fallen in the last few days with people picking conflict with the words used other members.

I advise you to google definition of kidnap.

ireland.man · 02-08-2014 12:25PM

JamboMac wrote: »

Yes the use of war is wrong but kidnap by definition is as it is the capture of somebody held for ransom it doesn't make blind bit of difference if that's 4 year old child or a soldier being on your land I don't why that is being debated but it just seems like a lot of people think they understand the language they speak but really don't this debate has vastly fallen in the last few days with people picking conflict with the words used other members.

I advise you to google definition of kidnap.

For someone so concerned about the English language, you could throw in a few commas and full stops once in a while.

I guess you're saying Hamas are breaking international law by using their captives as bargaining chips. I agree, that's wrong. Israel uses Palestinian prisoners in release swaps and deals so Israel conducts the same activity. What is the difference between Israel knowingly arresting particularly influential figures knowing they can be used at some point to put pressure on the other side?

JamboMac · 02-08-2014 12:33PM

ireland.man wrote: »

For someone so concerned about the English language, you could throw in a few commas and full stops once in a while.

I guess you're saying Hamas are breaking international law by using their captives as bargaining chips. I agree, that's wrong. Israel uses Palestinian prisoners in release swaps and deals so Israel conducts the same activity. What is the difference between Israel knowingly arresting particularly influential figures knowing they can be used at some point to put pressure on the other side?

I actually have not stated anything about what Hamas did whether it was capture or kidnap but some other people seemed to have an issue with the word kidnap.

I couldn't care what either side calls the use of human lives as bartering chips and that neither side has the right as such.

if many people seem to think I'm pro Israel why don't you read my previous post days ago when the lot weren't arsed debating and now jump on the band wagon.

ireland.man · 02-08-2014 12:37PM

JamboMac wrote: »

I actually have not stated anything about what Hamas did whether it was capture or kidnap but some other people seemed to have an issue with the word kidnap.

I couldn't care what either side calls the use of human lives as bartering chips and that neither side has the right as such.

if many people seem to think I'm pro Israel why don't you read my previous post days ago when the lot weren't arsed debating and now jump on the band wagon.

I agree completely.

Tuisceanch · 02-08-2014 12:43PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8wjz4FOiNA

If you don't care about humans then what about lifestock?
Video calls for and lists companies which you could boycott.I know some people were looking for this information.

Here is some more information vis-a-vis the subject of Boycotting.
http://www.interfaithpeaceinitiative.com/profiting.pdf

Nodin · 02-08-2014 12:53PM

Tuisceanch wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8wjz4FOiNA

If you don't care about humans then what about lifestock?
Video calls for and lists companies which you could boycott.I know some people were looking for this information.

They were hatching a terrorist plot.

hju6 · 02-08-2014 01:08PM

JamboMac wrote: »

Yes the use of war is wrong but kidnap by definition is as it is the capture of somebody held for ransom it doesn't make blind bit of difference if that's 4 year old child or a soldier being on your land I don't why that is being debated but it just seems like a lot of people think they understand the language they speak but really don't this debate has vastly fallen in the last few days with people picking conflict with the words used other members.

I advise you to google definition of kidnap.

And google definition of Prisoner of war

Little CuChulainn · 02-08-2014 01:09PM

Tuisceanch wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8wjz4FOiNA

If you don't care about humans then what about lifestock?
Video calls for and lists companies which you could boycott.I know some people were looking for this information.

A fairly big list. Not sure what it's based on. Is KFC an Israeli product?

Frank Lee Midere · 02-08-2014 01:18PM

Another call for the ethnic cleansing of Gaza. This time a genuine OP Ed in the JPost. Not an "unauthorised" blog.

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Into-the-fray-Why-Gaza-must-go-368862

Frank Lee Midere · 02-08-2014 01:24PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

A fairly big list. Not sure what it's based on. Is KFC an Israeli product?

I disagree with BDS. reasons.

1) it's collective punishment. Similar to blaming all Palestinians for Hamas. Particularly bad when it's individuals who are targeted.
2) the US is as responsible for this as israel ( and more ). BDS if moral at all can't just be for the smaller countries. Since people aren't going to give up iPhones and windows or Android it will never affect the US.
3) it won't work. Israel provides a lot of technology which also won't, and can't be targeted.
4) the BDS people are often targeting pro- israel companies (KFC) which are Jewish run. This comes across as anti- semitism.

JamboMac · 02-08-2014 01:26PM

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Another call for the ethnic cleansing of Gaza. This time a genuine OP Ed in the JPost. Not an "unauthorised" blog.

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Into-the-fray-Why-Gaza-must-go-368862

I really love the mis-quoting of Einstein when all the land was initially taken from the Palestinians, so in that respect Israel should give back all land taken since 1947.

ElChe32 · 02-08-2014 01:28PM

May have been posted already, but Brands response to Hannity is spot on.

Tuisceanch · 02-08-2014 01:28PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

A fairly big list. Not sure what it's based on. Is KFC an Israeli product?

I'm resourcing information but I can't advise you on the merits or otherwise of boycotting particular products. It is a complex area and you might find yourself questioning the whole basis of this society and the reality is that people want to live a quiet life and shut out the misery of the world. It's a matter for your own conscience on how you choose to proceed in the world.

When I say complex I mean you are looking at the major shareholders in the company among other factors when considering your choice. However you already know that. Try not to be always so glib and discuss the issue and don't just look for lazy soundbites.Sorry to be so critical but I think you should make more of an effort when discussing issues if you believe in the sincerity of your position.

Smiles35 · 02-08-2014 01:36PM

JamboMac wrote: »

I really love the mis-quoting of Einstein when all the land was initially taken from the Palestinians, so in that respect Israel should give back all land taken since 1947.

And from Churchill. Even thought he was known to be fairly pragmatic after the war even he wanted to gas parts of Germany in a sweat.

R P McMurphy · 02-08-2014 01:44PM

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

I disagree with BDS. reasons.

1) it's collective punishment. Similar to blaming all Palestinians for Hamas. Particularly bad when it's individuals who are targeted.
2) the US is as responsible for this as israel ( and more ). BDS if moral at all can't just be for the smaller countries. Since people aren't going to give up iPhones and windows or Android it will never affect the US.
3) it won't work. Israel provides a lot of technology which also won't, and can't be targeted.
4) the BDS people are often targeting pro- israel companies (KFC) which are Jewish run. This comes across as anti- semitism.

Just on point 4: if they are targetting companies because they are jewish run then it would indeed be anti-semetic, but how does that also apply to pro-israeli companies?

Hitchens · 02-08-2014 01:45PM

Hamas Leader Khaled Meshaal on American TV:

“We are not fanatics. We are not fundamentalists... We ask for tolerance, for coexistance."

Hamas Leader Khaled Meshaal in speeches to Palestinians:

"Palestine, from the river to the sea, belongs to us and nobody else."

"Before Israel dies, it must be humiliated and degraded."

Frank Lee Midere · 02-08-2014 01:50PM

Hitchens wrote: »

Hamas Leader Khaled Meshaal on American TV:

“We are not fanatics. We are not fundamentalists... We ask for tolerance, for coexistance."

Hamas Leader Khaled Meshaal in speeches to Palestinians:

"Palestine, from the river to the sea, belongs to us and nobody else."

"Before Israel dies, it must be humiliated and degraded."

The other lads speak different in Hebrew too. Although they also say this land belongs to "us and nobody else " in OP Eds and blogs. And only one side can make themselves the only people living in Palestine.

Frank Lee Midere · 02-08-2014 01:58PM

R P McMurphy wrote: »

Just on point 4: if they are targetting companies because they are jewish run then it would indeed be anti-semetic, but how does that also apply to pro-israeli companies?

Tell me why KFC was mentioned? That's not rhetorical. It was mentioned. Why ?

Nodin · 02-08-2014 02:01PM

Hitchens wrote: »

Hamas Leader (...............)."

Another hit and run post from Hitchens, who, given an infinite number of them, may yet make one worth reading.

Chance The Rapper · 02-08-2014 02:05PM

I think it's good to boycott all Israeli products, it will cause some resentment in the companies towards the government

Tuisceanch · 02-08-2014 02:10PM

Tuisceanch wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8wjz4FOiNA

If you don't care about humans then what about lifestock?
Video calls for and lists companies which you could boycott.I know some people were looking for this information.

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Tell me why KFC was mentioned? That's not rhetorical. It was mentioned. Why ?

Maybe it's because they are also cruel to chickens.And maybe it's because it's symbolic of the US. Also it's size means it is very sensitive to the fluctuations in it's share price thus making it an effective target.Does that justify boycotting it? and is it effective? What do you think?

KFC is part of the YUM group.
Here is some information on it's corporate history
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yum!_Brands[/url

KFC and Pizza Hut are core brands of the Yum group.

And if you read the following passage you can see the link with the occupation. Tenuous perhaps but this is a complex area.

"ALON GROUP
(TLV:DRAL), (TLV:BSI) is a holding company which has several companies
involved in the occupation. Alon Group owns Dor Alon (TLV:DRAL), a petrol company, which has
a monopoly over the supply of petroleum to the Gaza Strip and has repeatedly halted supplies of
its products to Gaza as part of the Israeliñimposed siege of that area. Dor Alon has several gas
stations and convenience stores in different Israeli settlements in the West Bank. Alon Group
also owns Blue Square (TLV:BSI), a retail chain which has branches and offices in multiple
settlements throughout the West Bank, and is the Israeli franchisee of Pizza Hut, which has a
restaurant in the Israeli settlement of Pisgat Ze'ev. "

]

hatrickpatrick · 02-08-2014 02:16PM

Nodin wrote: »

They were hatching a terrorist plot.

To be fair, that's no laughing matter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQMbXvn2RNI

eeepaulo · 02-08-2014 02:22PM

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Tell me why KFC was mentioned? That's not rhetorical. It was mentioned. Why ?

Crimes against good food, here is an easy recipe for proper fried chicken

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/gordon-ramsays-home-cooking/articles/all/buttermilk-fried-chicken-recipe

Son Of A Vidic · 02-08-2014 02:28PM

donegal__road wrote: »

Sky & Fox... that Hannity tit is on Fox.

The pro-Zionist Murdoch likes to recruit the highest caliber of staff for his bloated global spin machine. So the thick xenophobe Hannity, has to be the apple of his eye.

R P McMurphy · 02-08-2014 02:37PM

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Tell me why KFC was mentioned? That's not rhetorical. It was mentioned. Why ?

I dont know what KFC was mentioned

I was querying what you were equating the boycott of a pro-israeli company with anti-semitism

Israel - Palestine Conflict. **Mod note in OP - updated 1st August**

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Israel - Palestine Conflict. Mod note in OP - updated 1st August