Israel - Palestine Conflict. Mod note in OP - updated 1st August

Akrasia · 31-07-2014 03:17PM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

BBC article says Hamas start tunnels in homes, mosques, schools and other public buildings.

Yes, prisoners usually start their escape tunnels in their cells.

Phonehead · 31-07-2014 03:20PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

They were, both in the Republic and NI.

It's a moot point though. The people of Palestine couldn't have an election if they tried.

I don't know why I'm getting involved as clearly if he's asking he has very limited knowledge of Irish history.

In 1918 Sinn Fein/IRA won 47% of the election for Irish seats in the House of Commons (UK for those Irish posters who don't know) However Sinn Fein did not take their seats and instead set up the first Dail which declared Irish Independence. The IRA were then recognized as the army of an Independent Ireland....

listermint · 31-07-2014 03:30PM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

I agree, it's shocking that Hamas use schools to store weapons and use homes, mosques, and other public buildings to hide the entrances to their tunnels.

Erm let me see. If you were locked up in an open air prison with food that is calorie counted and no access to goods.

How would you seek to get Food and necessities in.

You couldnt make this stuff up.

The hilarious part of Israel demonising these tunnels, when in fact the tunnels are completely legit to break this awful blockade.

Who do the Israel's think they are ?!

RustyNut · 31-07-2014 03:40PM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

So Hamas doesn't store weapons in schools?

This is what the UN have to say about weapons in schools.

JamboMac · 31-07-2014 03:46PM

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Well something somewhere needs to exist to house them.

US Government tried to right the attricious wrongs they committed against the Native Americans by giving them back some of their land and making it sovereign.

Point being they didn't just say to them, ah yeah sorry about that. No they gave them back some of their land miniscule that it might be.

The globe is where they can exist like the rest of us. A country should not be created under guise of religion, but the real reason the states gave them this was because we had just started really depending on oil and if you have an ally in the middle-east then everything becomes easier.

wp_rathead · 31-07-2014 03:50PM

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Whats the timeline here? Were the IRA elected to government?

Well we did have two politicians removed for alledgedly supplying arms to IRA in the 70's..

Frank Lee Midere · 31-07-2014 03:51PM

JamboMac wrote: »

The globe is where they can exist like the rest of us. A country should not be created under guise of religion, but the real reason the states gave them this was because we had just started really depending on oil and if you have an ally in the middle-east then everything becomes easier.

The setup of Israel had little to do with oil or the US.

shedweller · 31-07-2014 03:51PM

listermint wrote: »

Who do the Israel's think they are ?!

Gods chosen people. And to hell with the rest of us!

JamboMac · 31-07-2014 03:58PM

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

The setup of Israel had little to do with oil or the US.

Might be worth a read. How much is true I can't tell but history is written the winners, so maybe what you believe is true is what people want you to believe.

http://original.antiwar.com/alison-weir/2011/10/10/the-real-story-of-how-israel-was-created/

Tuisceanch · 31-07-2014 03:59PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BK0kDlUG5Es

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atGKjQTbcP4

whatstherush · 31-07-2014 04:02PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ooViBcPwsU

No words

Dublin Red Devil · 31-07-2014 04:02PM

To be fair to Jews. Allot of Jews do not support what Israel is doing. This is not Judaism. This is Zionism. There people do not represent good Jewish people.

Before the Zionist movement, Jews and Muslims lived side by side in this region in Peace. Its the Zionist in Isreal and America that are responsible for the illegall occupation and mass murder of Palestinians

wretcheddomain · 31-07-2014 04:13PM

Dublin Red Devil wrote: »

To be fair to Jews. Allot of Jews do not support what Israel is doing. This is not Judaism. This is Zionism. There people do not represent good Jewish people.

Before the Zionist movement, Jews and Muslims lived side by side in this region in Peace. Its the Zionist in Isreal and America that are responsible for the illegall occupation and mass murder of Palestinians

Of course it had nothing to do with Judaism in the God-sense, but it does have everything to do with the "ethnic" sense. Herzl, the founder of Zionism, was an atheist Jew from Austria for example.

Most Zionists in the US are fundamentalist Christians.

Many Jews, both in Israel and around the world, despise Zionism; no less than Noam Chomsky and Ilan Pappe for example.

Dan_Solo · 31-07-2014 04:23PM

wretcheddomain wrote: »

Of course it had nothing to do with Judaism in the God-sense, but it does have everything to do with the "ethnic" sense. Herzl, the founder of Zionism, was an atheist Jew from Austria for example.

And quite ironically the racist state of Israel allows automatic citizenship to those who can claim one ethnic Jewish grandparent.
Exactly the same criteria Nazi Germany used to identify Jews.

Dan_Solo · 31-07-2014 04:28PM

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Well something somewhere needs to exist to house them.

US Government tried to right the attricious wrongs they committed against the Native Americans by giving them back some of their land and making it sovereign.

Point being they didn't just say to them, ah yeah sorry about that. No they gave them back some of their land miniscule that it might be.

Relevance?

MayoSalmon · 31-07-2014 04:29PM

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Relevance?

Guess

Dan_Solo · 31-07-2014 04:32PM

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Guess

Ah, so you fully admit it isn't obvious.
The US government returning land to the native population is the same as the US government supporting a people they have fcuk all responsibility for stealing land they don't own and haven't owned except for a short while in the bronze age?
Am I warm?

RustyNut · 31-07-2014 04:37PM

mad muffin wrote: »

They are be heading whole families as the children watch and then beheading the children.

I have a hard time believing the IDF would target UN schools where children slept deliberately.

It would appear that the IDF are prepared to target children as and when it suits them.

Israeli officer: I was right to shoot 13-year-old child

An Israeli army officer who repeatedly shot a 13-year-old Palestinian girl in Gaza dismissed a warning from another soldier that she was a child by saying he would have killed her even if she was three years old.
The officer, identified by the army only as Captain R, was charged this week with illegal use of his weapon, conduct unbecoming an officer and other relatively minor infractions after emptying all 10 bullets from his gun's magazine into Iman al-Hams when she walked into a "security area" on the edge of Rafah refugee camp last month.

I Heart Internet · 31-07-2014 04:42PM

RustyNut wrote: »

It would appear that the IDF are prepared to target children as and when it suits them.

Israeli officer: I was right to shoot 13-year-old child

The soldier in question, as highlighted in your quote was put on trial and convicted for his crime. So it seems the IDF and Israeli state doesn't support it, as you claim.

I wonder if a Hamas fighter has ever been reprimanded by Hamas for killing Israeli civilians....no, didn't think so, carried shoulder high no doubt.

DamagedTrax · 31-07-2014 04:46PM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

The soldier in question, as highlighted in your quote was put on trial and convicted for his crime.

im not sure if you're serious or seriously deluded.

"Captain R, was charged this week with illegal use of his weapon, conduct unbecoming an officer and other relatively minor infractions after emptying all 10 bullets from his gun's magazine into Iman al-Hams when she walked into a "security area" on the edge of Rafah refugee camp last month."

maybe the word murder is hidden in a secret code? because thats exactly what it was. the scumbag's own subordinates complained about him.. that says it all.

MayoSalmon · 31-07-2014 04:46PM

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Ah, so you fully admit it isn't obvious.
The US government returning land to the native population is the same as the US government supporting a people they have fcuk all responsibility for stealing land they don't own and haven't owned except for a short while in the bronze age?
Am I warm?

Wasn't obvious to YOU.

The UN replaces the US government in the instance of Israel. Many people would consider the Israeli's/Jews as native people to that region same as the Palestinians.

NewCorkLad · 31-07-2014 04:47PM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

The soldier in question, as highlighted in your quote was put on trial and convicted for his crime. So it seems the IDF and Israeli state doesn't support it, as you claim.

I wonder if a Hamas fighter has ever been reprimanded by Hamas for killing Israeli civilians....no, didn't think so, carried shoulder high no doubt.

Thats a laughable post if Israel was so upstanding how about the soldiers who have killed the other 1500 civilians since this attack started will they also be put on trial.

RustyNut · 31-07-2014 04:49PM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

The soldier in question, as highlighted in your quote was put on trial and convicted for his crime. So it seems the IDF and Israeli state doesn't support it, as you claim.

I wonder if a Hamas fighter has ever been reprimanded by Hamas for killing Israeli civilians....no, didn't think so, carried shoulder high no doubt.

I think people can judge for them selves if the victim got justice.

I dont expect the innocent victims of Hamas will get justice either.

My name is URL · 31-07-2014 04:51PM

Gringo180 wrote: »

Video of a U.N speaker breaking down after witnessing what happened at the school in Gaza earlier on.

Of all the videos I've seen so far, that's the one that made me choke up a little.

How awful must it be to be a relief worker in Gaza, doing your best to save the lives of innocent civilians and children, only to see them and your own colleagues murdered indiscriminately by the forces of a nation state.. while the world stands idly by and doesn't seem to care.

If that wouldn't crush your faith in humanity then I don't know what would.

Tuisceanch · 31-07-2014 04:51PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d_i2F2LlF8&index=6&list=PL73FD26DF01C56E80

Phonehead · 31-07-2014 04:52PM

Phonehead wrote: »

I don't know why I'm getting involved as clearly if he's asking he has very limited knowledge of Irish history.

In 1918 Sinn Fein/IRA won 47% of the election for Irish seats in the House of Commons (UK for those Irish posters who don't know) However Sinn Fein did not take their seats and instead set up the first Dail which declared Irish Independence. The IRA were then recognized as the army of an Independent Ireland....

Mayo you seem to have ignored responding to this.

Meh you probably won't respond though

I Heart Internet · 31-07-2014 04:55PM

NewCorkLad wrote: »

Thats a laughable post if Israel was so upstanding how about the soldiers who have killed the other 1500 civilians since this attack started will they also be put on trial.

If they deliberately targeted civilians they should be.

Nodin · 31-07-2014 04:55PM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

The soldier in question, as highlighted in your quote was put on trial and convicted for his crime. So it seems the IDF and Israeli state doesn't support it, as you claim..

Be nice if you read what he was convicted of. His "penalty" was being transferred to another unit.

pedro1234 · 31-07-2014 04:56PM

Dublin Red Devil wrote: »

To be fair to Jews. Allot of Jews do not support what Israel is doing. This is not Judaism. This is Zionism. There people do not represent good Jewish people.

Before the Zionist movement, Jews and Muslims lived side by side in this region in Peace. Its the Zionist in Isreal and America that are responsible for the illegall occupation and mass murder of Palestinians

Exactly. I explained this ad nauseum, I'm not sure why it needs to be repeated. Actually I do, these threads are wrecks with too many lemmings failing to understand the basic concepts behind this entire conflict. Not aiming that at you by the way, but the pro-Zionists here.

The following was discussed on Reddit as is extremely important to understand the mindset at play here:

I still can't post web links, but here's a quote from today

Israeli MP wrote:

”NATO bombed 5,000 civilians in Kosovo just because it was insulted; 27,000 Iraqi civilians were bombed during the American invasion because they posed a danger to the US; there is not a country in the world that can talk to us about morality.”

Retort: What about Liechtenstein? In Liechtenstein's last military engagement they sent 80 men and returned with 81 as they had made a friend.

They don't seem to understand that the actions of others do not justify your own. Don't turn into the monsters who once victimized you.

This is an example of tu quoque - a logical fallacy

Nodin · 31-07-2014 04:57PM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

If they deliberately targeted civilians they should be.

But they aren't. Sentences for killing Palestinians are virtually unknown, killing Westerners only slighltly less so, with short sentences applied.

Israel - Palestine Conflict. **Mod note in OP - updated 1st August**

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Israel - Palestine Conflict. Mod note in OP - updated 1st August