Social Housing - Irish style

Muahahaha · 29-07-2014 02:42PM #1

While I'm not against social housing it always makes me feel really annoyed to hear stories like this where people seem to get away with working the system and no council officials ever call them out on it.

The background to this is a social housing block of 54 flats in Temple Bar, it's called Crampton Court. It's down an alleyway near the river in Temple Bar and the council has wanted to redevelop it in modern 2 bed apartments which would then be offered to those tenants who wanted to return after the renovation. Others would be housed elsewhere in the city. The council got agreement with all the tenants bar one who has now held up the scheme for almost a year with his legal challenges.

This lad, according to the Indo, is a well known awarding winning chef. Doesn't exactly sound to me like the type of guy who is in need of social housing. And then you learn that he owns a 2 bed apartment in Wexford and he also owns Papa Rhodes restaurant in Wexford as well as having another restaurant based in the US.

It gets worse. In legal argument in court the chef demanded that the council pay him €575,000 so he could buy a 2 bed city centre apartment "preferably near a Luas stop" in order to compensate him for making him 'homeless'. In the end the judge ruled that the council should pay him €35,000 compensation to move out of this public housing and that the council should pay their own legal costs, which probably mount to way over €35,000 at this stage. I'm stunned that the judge is even giving this guy compensation for losing his social housing when clearly he has far greater financial means at his disposal compared to people who are genuinely homeless. No wonder we have an homeless epidemic when this carry on is happening.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/chef-roddy-hickson-to-be-given-35k-compensation-by-dublin-city-council-to-quit-temple-bar-flat-30468089.html

What annoys me about this is the way the council operate the social housing system. Once you have a council house or flat you have it for life and then your kids can have it. Social housing then becomes inter-generational. At no stage will the council every come along and say, hey you guys are earning €75k a year into your household and we've got these homeless and broke people here who are in more need, so hey, perhaps time to find yourself a private rental like everyone else instead of having the council subsidize your clearly comfortable lifestyle ?'

Why are we paying taxes into a system that rewards people who aren't even in need of social housing? And why do our councils even let it happen? Is it a fear of media coverage of them having to evict the odd family who don't want to step off the gravy train? IMO social housing should be always seen as a temporary 1-3 year solution where families are given enough time to get back on their feet before they're expected to vacate the house for someone in more need of them. The current system is very very broken and regular hard working people paying for this carry on through their taxes yet will likely never see the benefits of it.

mad muffin · 29-07-2014 02:48PM

No doubt the judge dines at his restaurant in a regular basis.

Theis country is fecked with its social allowances. My wife's brother is a doctor with his own practice.

They have a house opposite Michael Flatley. They still collect children's benefit. :rolleyes:

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy · 29-07-2014 02:52PM

mad muffin wrote: »

My wife's brother is a doctor with his own practice.

They have a house opposite Michael Flatley. They still collect children's benefit. :rolleyes:

No doubt he contributes enough to the state in the first place.

People's attitude towards high earners is unreal. Begrudging baxtards.

29-07-2014 02:56PM

He is a chancer I doubt he is typical of those in social housing. I suppose you could put an upper limit on the income you have before you keep your social housing

doolox · 29-07-2014 02:56PM

Whats needed is a childline style way of policing the spending of child benefit so that it be spent only on the child and not on habits of their parents such as smoking and drinking which could happen in the present system. The kids should be given a greater say in the spending of the allowance than just handing the money to their parents.

Not every chef is rich and many restaurant owners are barely breaking even or on very low income.

There may be a genuine reason why the man is bringing a case against the council, same bunch of lads that stopped the recent concerts in Croke Park despite 400,000 ticket sales.

mad muffin · 29-07-2014 03:00PM

Duracell Bunny wrote: »

No doubt he contributes enough to the state in the first place.

People's attitude towards high earners is unreal. Begrudging baxtards.

If you can afford a Million Euro house you damn well don't me no children's allowance. If you have a successful business and already own property you damn well don't need no god damned social housing, let alone take them to court and win compensation. Greedy baxtards.

El Weirdo · 29-07-2014 03:03PM

mariaalice wrote: »

He is a chancer I doubt he is typical of those in social housing. I suppose you could put an upper limit on the income you have before you keep your social housing

What you want isn't social housing then. It's ghettos for the unemployed/low earners.

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy · 29-07-2014 03:03PM

mad muffin wrote: »

let alone take them to court and win compensation. Greedy baxtards.

Who are we talking about now?

I addressed your point about the doctor claiming child benefit, that's all.

mad muffin · 29-07-2014 03:11PM

Duracell Bunny wrote: »

Who are we talking about now?

I addressed your point about the doctor claiming child benefit, that's all.

Is it?

suicide_circus · 29-07-2014 03:11PM

It is certainly unjust, immoral and stupid that thus guy's rent is subsidised by the taxpayer.

donutheadhomer · 29-07-2014 03:15PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

While I'm not against social housing it always makes me feel really annoyed to hear stories like this where people seem to get away with working the system and no council officials ever call them out on it.

The background to this is a social housing block of 54 flats in Temple Bar, it's called Crampton Court. It's down an alleyway near the river in Temple Bar and the council has wanted to redevelop it in modern 2 bed apartments which would then be offered to those tenants who wanted to return after the renovation. Others would be housed elsewhere in the city. The council got agreement with all the tenants bar one who has now held up the scheme for almost a year with his legal challenges.

This lad, according to the Indo, is a well known awarding winning chef. Doesn't exactly sound to me like the type of guy who is in need of social housing. And then you learn that he owns a 2 bed apartment in Wexford and he also owns Papa Rhodes restaurant in Wexford as well as having another restaurant based in the US.

It gets worse. In legal argument in court the chef demanded that the council pay him €575,000 so he could buy a 2 bed city centre apartment "preferably near a Luas stop" in order to compensate him for making him 'homeless'. In the end the judge ruled that the council should pay him €35,000 compensation to move out of this public housing and that the council should pay their own legal costs, which probably mount to way over €35,000 at this stage. I'm stunned that the judge is even giving this guy compensation for losing his social housing when clearly he has far greater financial means at his disposal compared to people who are genuinely homeless. No wonder we have an homeless epidemic when this carry on is happening.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/chef-roddy-hickson-to-be-given-35k-compensation-by-dublin-city-council-to-quit-temple-bar-flat-30468089.html

What annoys me about this is the way the council operate the social housing system. Once you have a council house or flat you have it for life and then your kids can have it. Social housing then becomes inter-generational. At no stage will the council every come along and say, hey you guys are earning €75k a year into your household and we've got these homeless and broke people here who are in more need, so hey, perhaps time to find yourself a private rental like everyone else instead of having the council subsidize your clearly comfortable lifestyle ?'

Why are we paying taxes into a system that rewards people who aren't even in need of social housing? And why do our councils even let it happen? Is it a fear of media coverage of them having to evict the odd family who don't want to step off the gravy train? IMO social housing should be always seen as a temporary 1-3 year solution where families are given enough time to get back on their feet before they're expected to vacate the house for someone in more need of them. The current system is very very broken and regular hard working people paying for this carry on through their taxes yet will likely never see the benefits of it.

doesn't the article say that he acquired the tenancy before the council took over the flats? not sure who was the original landlord but surely the council have no right to turf him out unless compensated for his loss: and it would be a significant loss. I'm not saying he was entitled to council housing but he was a sitting tenant prior to the council taking over and should be allowed to live there under the conditions he had with the previous landlord unless he negotiated a new arrangement with the council.

él statutorio · 29-07-2014 03:16PM

donutheadhomer wrote: »

doesn't the article say that he acquired the tenancy before the council took over the flats?

Yes, but why let a trivial thing like details get in the way of a good rant.

Muahahaha · 29-07-2014 03:17PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

It is certainly unjust, immoral and stupid that thus guy's rent is subsidised by the taxpayer.

That's the crux of it. As I said in the OP I'm not against social housing, it is essential we have it. But it is also essential that the people who need it most end up getting it. But as the system runs you could have gotten a council house in 1990 when you were 20 and broke but now in 2014 you're actually very comfortable and even more so because the taxpayer is subsidising your comfortable lifestyle.

I'm not saying that this case is widespread in the social housing system. But there needs to be checks and balances against this sort of stuff going on. And if that means the Gardai some day have to evict a family from social housing because they own several properties elsewhere then so be it IMO, because at the end of the day it's for the greater good.

We really need to grow up as a nation on these issues, taxpayers are being had and our politicians and council officials are facilitating it.

Annasopra · 29-07-2014 03:21PM

Ah lads ffs yous are ranting and raving about his rent being subsidised by the taxpayer when its not.

Annasopra · 29-07-2014 03:23PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

That's the crux of it. As I said in the OP I'm not against social housing, it is essential we have it. But it is also essential that the people who need it most end up getting it. But as the system runs you could have gotten a council house in 1990 when you were 20 and broke but now in 2014 you're actually very comfortable and even more so because the taxpayer is subsidising your comfortable lifestyle.

I'm not saying that this case is widespread in the social housing system. But there needs to be checks and balances against this sort of stuff going on. And if that means the Gardai some day have to evict a family from social housing because they own several properties elsewhere then so be it IMO, because at the end of the day it's for the greater good.

We really need to grow up as a nation on these issues, taxpayers are being had and our politicians and council officials are facilitating it.

You do know that Council housing rent accounts for income increases dont you?

Reekwind · 29-07-2014 03:27PM

donutheadhomer wrote: »

doesn't the article say that he acquired the tenancy before the council took over the flats?

It does. So as I understand it, and ignoring dates for a moment, the process went something like this:

Man takes a lease on the non-Council property.
Property is subsequently acquired by the Council.
Council evicts man and acts to redevelop the property for social housing.
Man loses appeal against eviction from his soon-to-be-social-housing accommodation.
OP creates thread bemoaning the Council's unwillingness to evict people and the whole social housing system

To be honest, until that last point it all looks fairly straightforward.

listermint · 29-07-2014 03:31PM

I suppose the only real ridiculous point was that the guy was chancing his arm trying to get half a million out of them to buy a place in town.

Annasopra · 29-07-2014 03:34PM

listermint wrote: »

I suppose the only real ridiculous point was that the guy was chancing his arm trying to get half a million out of them to buy a place in town.

No. The ridiculous point was the nonsense ranting here.

Potatoeman · 29-07-2014 03:41PM

mad muffin wrote: »

If you can afford a Million Euro house you damn well don't me no children's allowance.

They are entitled to it though and if they are paying high taxes why would they not.

listermint · 29-07-2014 03:52PM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

No. The ridiculous point was the nonsense ranting here.

Em, i meant in the article....

Muahahaha · 29-07-2014 03:53PM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

You do know that Council housing rent accounts for income increases dont you?

For sure, what is it 10-15% of your declared income goes to the council for rent. I wish only 10-15% of my income was going on rent, as it is I spend next to 30% of income to rent in the private sector a 30 minute bus ride away from the city centre. The vast majority of people who rent are in the same boat, 25-30% of their incomes go on rent and that's not even living in a convenient location.

Fact of the matter is there are people in the council housing system who are very comfortable. And there are people outside of the housing system who are far from it.

swimming in a sea · 29-07-2014 04:40PM

I was browsing the social housing website today and noticed for a single person in Dublin earning under €35k they qualify for social housing. Not sure how long you'd be waiting to get it but it seems a high wage.

I worked in Dublin for 2 years on €30k and paid €725 for a 1 bed flat so that's 30% of gross wage.. I should have applied for a house, would I have got it within the 2 years?

I actually don't want anything off the government, I just wish they did not want so much of me to put up the work shy.

dublinman1990 · 29-07-2014 06:11PM

:eek::eek::eek:

Jeez, I actually gasped in disbelief from what I read from the OP.

There are people in this country who live in council houses but actually own their own properties and businesses as well. Ireland is certainly the best place to live in....yeah of course....if your very well off.

DCC and other county councils all over this country should have the moral bottle and get rid of laws that state that people who continue to live in social housing and have a comfortable lifestyle e.g owning their own properties and businesses, that continue to live in them unopposed from actual reality.

Roddy and many others in the same situation should do the same on a voluntarily basis but that's if our current laws even cater for it.

That current situation with Roddy is a form of self-entitlement right in front of our eyes. And to me, that is a disgraceful form of self-entitlement to experience in front of us.

Gandhi · 29-07-2014 06:48PM

How many people commenting actually read the article? This guy was never housed by the council. The council bought the apartment building when he had already been living in it for 10 years. Presumably he was allowed to stay on as an existing tenant (which is fair enough), but now that the council want to renovate it, they are telling him he won't be able to come back unless he qualifies for a council house. They are turfing him, and his family, out of the home they have lived in, and paid for, since 1988.

DebDynamite · 29-07-2014 06:51PM

Who have they been paying rent to for all these years?

Hootanany · 29-07-2014 07:09PM

DebDynamite wrote: »

Who have they been paying rent to for all these years?

Good question played footy with a guy that lived there in early 90,s was Corpo then.

Gandhi · 29-07-2014 07:14PM

DebDynamite wrote: »

Who have they been paying rent to for all these years?

The article is really fuzzy on details. It mentions at one point that the council had acquired "possession" of 53 of the 54 units, but I presume the reporter meant to say "vacant possession". Otherwise, it may imply that his unit was still owned by someone other than the council - either himself or a private landlord.

Assuming the whole building was acquired by the council, it does not say whether he was paying council rent, or if he continued to pay what he would have paid as a private renter.

So, presumably he was paying rent to the council. It is possible he was getting a bargain, courtesy of the taxpayer. If so, well then he got lucky. He was there first. The blame for that goes to the council who made a bad business decision, on behalf of the taxpayer, by acquiring a building that was already occupied by private renters.

mad muffin · 29-07-2014 07:15PM

Potatoeman wrote: »

They are entitled to it though and if they are paying high taxes why would they not.

That's the story of Ireland. Everyone feels so fücken entitled.

That's why this country is in such a shît.

El Weirdo · 29-07-2014 07:16PM

DebDynamite wrote: »

Who have they been paying rent to for all these years?

No one. He says he bought the lease in 1988.

mad muffin · 29-07-2014 07:17PM

Gandhi wrote: »

How many people commenting actually read the article? This guy was never housed by the council. The council bought the apartment building when he had already been living in it for 10 years. Presumably he was allowed to stay on as an existing tenant (which is fair enough), but now that the council want to renovate it, they are telling him he won't be able to come back unless he qualifies for a council house. They are turfing him, and his family, out of the home they have lived in, and paid for, since 1988.

*raises hand*
I'd didn't read the article… haha

mikeym · 29-07-2014 07:24PM

He has some cheek.

Why dont we all get council houses and flats even though some of us own properties.

Its ok for the Wexford chef to do it.

Social Housing - Irish style

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