Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Notes in OP,22/7

Maximus Alexander · 03-07-2014 01:18PM

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Vermaelen to us has to be a load of ****e just so people can say 'oh look at how far they have fallen, signing injured Arsenal rejects'

The journalists running it have to have some sort of anti-united bias.

Cue Vermaelen signing and LvG turning him into the best CB in Europe.

UnitedIrishman · 03-07-2014 01:23PM

Blatter wrote: »

I think there's almost certainly substance to the Vermaelen rumours. Too much smoke and some from fairly reliable journalists.

I'd agree with that. Van Gaal might see something in him that others might not. We know that he likes center half that are able to play out from the back or pick a pass which Vermaelen can do. Eradicate the mistakes and rein him in a bit and you could have a decent player.

For some reason, always had it in my mind that Wenger couldn't coach/find a center half. Until last season with Mertesacker and Koscielny, they seemed to be always struggling to find a pair that were semi-decent since Toure and Campbell. Cygan, Gallas (whilst excellent at times was prone to the odd brain freeze), Djorou, Senderos, Silvestre never really convinced. I mean he even signed Sol Campbell back at one stage when he left Notts County.

Then of course there's also the theory that maybe Wenger is getting us back for sending Silvestre down there.

Edit: also Hummels is a pipe dream. There's been little to know talk among the journo's that are supposedly ITK, only 'sources' from papers like the Mirror.

Rubber_Soul · 03-07-2014 01:33PM

redbaron_99 wrote: »

http://sportwitness.ning.com/forum/topics/di-maria-to-manchester-united-is-now-all-fixed-by-jorge-mendes

Di Maria, anyone?

Not for €50m, no!

Edit: Would love him for a more realistic price though.

Lucas Hood · 03-07-2014 01:39PM

Di Maria yes please.I think he was the top assister in La Liga & CL last season.

03-07-2014 01:45PM

Vermaelen would be interesting. He has had a rough couple of years but in the right environment I think has the potential to be useful. LVG will probably focus more on ball playing from the back which is something Rio and Vidic have been atrocious at for years now and something Smalling seems more and more uncomfortable with. Jones is good with the ball, wouldn't mind him being the DM or 3rd CB at all, disappointed after his masterclass against Ronaldo in 2012 that Moyes didn't try him out there a bit more last season.

bullvine · 03-07-2014 01:45PM

I am very excited by Van Gaal, hes a proven winner but hes far from perfect(Who is?), hes made some mad decisions in the past like persisting with Rudd Hesp at Barca and when playing Ireland taking of Overmars who was running a muck and replacing him with Hasselbaink.

Should be some crack!

Mikeyt086 · 03-07-2014 01:45PM

Di Maria won't go from having a major role in winning the Champions League to not playing in it. Bit of a reality check needed for some.

Irish94 · 03-07-2014 01:47PM

Di Maria won't leave Real Madrid. To be honest, I don't think Ronaldo would let the club sell him. He was extremely upset when Ozil left. Di Maria was exceptional last season, without him Ronaldo wouldn't have scored as many goals. Ancellotti played a big part too, putting Di Maria in a midfield trio of himself, Alonso and Modric. It worked extremely well.

bucketybuck · 03-07-2014 01:49PM

Liam O wrote: »

something Rio and Vidic have been atrocious at for years now and something Smalling seems more and more uncomfortable with.

Its hard to look good bringing the ball out from defence when you don't have a midfielder worth a **** in front of you to either get in position for a pass or at least make space to run into.

03-07-2014 01:53PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its hard to look good bringing the ball out from defence when you don't have a midfielder worth a **** in front of you to either get in position for a pass or at least make space to run into.

Ah come on, there's excuses for lumping the ball forward, if there's one thing Carrick has always done it's support the CBs. Just in recent seasons Rio and Vidic have decided in pretty much every big game to be long ball merchants which really cost the team the year of Agueroooo. I couldn't believe what I was watching in that game against City and subsequent big games they've played together since.

Mitch Connor · 03-07-2014 01:53PM

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

Di Maria won't go from having a major role in winning the Champions League to not playing in it. Bit of a reality check needed for some.

As I keep saying; if players believe UNited out of the CL is only a blip - an idea which can be convinced by the caliber of player being brought in - then being out of the CL for ONE season may not be a reason for a player to not sign for United.

Look at who City signed prior to getting into the CL - Ballotelli, Robinho, Yaya Toure amongst others. Monaco signed Rodriguez and Falcao having only just got promoted.

Players can be lured with the promise of the 'project', to be a part of the United side that gets them back into the CL, and on to win it (maybe...arf).

To say United have no chance of signing any top level player because they are out of the CL is simply wrong, imo. I'm not saying signing such a player will be easy, but it certainly is not impossible.

Cantona's Collars · 03-07-2014 01:59PM

redbaron_99 wrote: »

http://sportwitness.ning.com/forum/topics/di-maria-to-manchester-united-is-now-all-fixed-by-jorge-mendes

Di Maria, anyone?

Was just about to post that,get him at the right price and watch him go to town in the EPL.

redbaron_99 · 03-07-2014 02:01PM

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

Di Maria won't go from having a major role in winning the Champions League to not playing in it. Bit of a reality check needed for some.

Herrera gave up the chance of playing CL to join us. :cool:

redbaron_99 · 03-07-2014 02:03PM

zerks wrote: »

Was just about to post that,get him at the right price and watch him go to town in the EPL.

Thinking the same thing. He'd do a lot of damage in England.

MagicIRL · 03-07-2014 02:04PM

How reliable is sport witness and by extension El Classified or whatever it's called?

FutureGuy · 03-07-2014 02:04PM

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Herrera gave up the chance of playing CL to join us. :cool:

That what I love to see. In his first interview, he talked about being a profession.

I hope he'll be a star.

Cantona's Collars · 03-07-2014 02:05PM

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

Di Maria won't go from having a major role in winning the Champions League to not playing in it. Bit of a reality check needed for some.

He's not too keen on playing in front of 700 fans at Monaco.70,000 at Old Trafford is more appealing.

markcahill1985 · 03-07-2014 02:08PM

MagicIRL wrote: »

How reliable is sport witness and by extension El Classified or whatever it's called?

Sport Witness is very good, they basically just review all european papers and translate what they are saying, they dont actually report their own stories.

Not sure how reliable El Classified is, story seems a little far fetched to me.

Rubber_Soul · 03-07-2014 02:08PM

MagicIRL wrote: »

How reliable is sport witness and by extension El Classified or whatever it's called?

Sport Witness isn't a source, they just give a round up of what the foreign media are saying. They're pretty good for debunking garbage rumours.

Lucas Hood · 03-07-2014 02:09PM

MagicIRL wrote: »

How reliable is sport witness and by extension El Classified or whatever it's called?

Sport Witness just seem to translate foreign articles.

UnitedIrishman · 03-07-2014 02:14PM

Liam O wrote: »

Ah come on, there's excuses for lumping the ball forward, if there's one thing Carrick has always done it's support the CBs. Just in recent seasons Rio and Vidic have decided in pretty much every big game to be long ball merchants which really cost the team the year of Agueroooo. I couldn't believe what I was watching in that game against City and subsequent big games they've played together since.

Don't want to hark back to last season because a lot of stuff happened last season that won't happen again but in a lot of games Carrick was far, far too deep when receiving the ball. In the Olympiakos away game he was in line with Rio and Vidic most of the time and they just pushed on and we squandered possession. Hopefully this is merely a blip last year but I'd be worried if we see more of the same next year with Carrick, he needs to be able to receive the ball in between the lines more.

bucketybuck · 03-07-2014 02:18PM

Liam O wrote: »

Ah come on, there's excuses for lumping the ball forward, if there's one thing Carrick has always done it's support the CBs. Just in recent seasons Rio and Vidic have decided in pretty much every big game to be long ball merchants which really cost the team the year of Agueroooo. I couldn't believe what I was watching in that game against City and subsequent big games they've played together since.

If there is one thing Carrick does well its pass the ball back to the centre halves, can't argue that.

Our CB's didn't suddenly start to become long ball merchants on a whim, it happened because more and more over time they had no other outlet for the ball. They can't dribble the length of the field, they want to be able to bring the ball forward ten/twenty yards and then move it on to the right person who is making themselves available for the ball. But we didn't have anybody making themselves available, we had Cleverley hiding behind the opposition, Kagawa stuck out on the left wing or Carrick actually dropping behind the defender hoping to manufacture a pass to De Gea.

Rio was always very cultured in his use of the ball, do you think he wanted to morph into a long ball merchant? Of course not, but if there is nobody to pass to then what else is he going to do?

03-07-2014 02:26PM

It became an all too common sight last season when our CBs would come out with the ball, looking to make a pass but then end up waving their arms in the air in a "Where the fúck are yis lads?" fashion and then have to either play it back to DeGea who'd hoof it, or they'd hoof it themselves. I never want to see that again with Manchester United.

sReq | uTeK · 03-07-2014 02:32PM

bullvine wrote: »

I am very excited by Van Gaal, hes a proven winner but hes far from perfect(Who is?), hes made some mad decisions in the past like persisting with Rudd Hesp at Barca and when playing Ireland taking of Overmars who was running a muck and replacing him with Hasselbaink.

Should be some crack!

This one time I hear fergie played Raf and Park as central midfielders while leaving Pogba on the bench.

My point: Even the best get it wrong occasionally

bullvine · 03-07-2014 02:37PM

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

This one time I hear fergie played Raf and Park as central midfielders while leaving Pogba on the bench.

My point: Even the best get it wrong occasionally

Or sending Lukaku out on loan??

Pro. F · 03-07-2014 02:39PM

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Oh of course it's finite and we're not going to compete with the unlimited funds they have. And you still have the middle tier of Premier League players going for reasonable sums. But what I'm saying is that paying 30m for someone like Carvalho is the done thing nowadays when you see the likes of Illaramendi going for about 32m and James Rodriguez for 39m (no doubt worth more after this World Cup). And we were always going to have to spend big at least one season to rebuild given how our squad aged.

Unfortunately the way of the world means that these fees will only increase to the point of it being regular for 50m for a top player - until the ceiling either collapses on the whole thing or it plateau's off when income levels off.

I'm not denying that transfer prices will continue to rise. I'm denying that it's anywhere near the point where you and so many people seem to think it is. And I'm not talking about mid-tier talent either, I'm talking about highly sought after talent.

Rakitic has just been sold for £17m; Andre Schurrle was sold for £19m in 2013; Shaqiri was sold for £11m in 2012; Xhaka for £8m in 2012; Ter Stegen for £10m this summer; Reus for £15m in 2012; Pjanic for £10m in 2011; Vidal for £11m in 2011; Mertesacker for £11m in 2011; Neuer for £24m in 2011; Loic Remy for £10m in 2012; de Gea for £18m in 2011; Arteta for £11m in 2011; Joao Moutinho for £22m in 2013; and it goes on and on.

If you read beyond the crazy transfers and look at the rest of the market you will see a very different picture of what represents value.

The Moldy Gowl · 03-07-2014 02:44PM

The excuse of someone not signing because of not playing CL football is stupid.

The group stage is 6 games, at least 1 if not 2 of those teams are gonna be crap (compared to teams in the PL), so there is 2/3 easy games for a team like United.
So you are left with 1 good team against United, then if you progress you could be handed an easy draw or end up playing Madrid or Bayern or Barca.

So if a player from a foreign league is saying they dont want to join united because they will miss out on potentially playing against a big foreign team, then leave him off.

How often would Di maria/Vidal get the chance to play Man city, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs twice and then back in the CL next year with a decent chance of going far.

There is too much importance being placed on a handful of games when we can offer them a new challenge for the sake of missing out on playing 4/5 games abroad.

We arent Liverpool when they couldnt sign top players a few years ago and them being in the CL this year I doubt that would persaude a player to join them instead of us.

Its a lazy cop out excuse and if a player uses that, then they arent worthy enough to play for United and see the bigger picture.

bangkok · 03-07-2014 02:57PM

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

This one time I hear fergie played Raf and Park as central midfielders while leaving Pogba on the bench.

My point: Even the best get it wrong occasionally

park was an experienced international who never let the team down, Rafael was already in the team, maybe pogba should have played maybe fergie didn't think he was up to it just yet, how many times has fergie let players leave and he proved to be right, just happens that pogba has excelled and probably would have played a lot more if he stayed, united did offer him a contract

UnitedIrishman · 03-07-2014 02:58PM

Pro. F wrote: »

I'm not denying that transfer prices will continue to rise. I'm denying that it's anywhere near the point where you and so many people seem to think it is. And I'm not talking about mid-tier talent either, I'm talking about highly sought after talent.

Rakitic has just been sold for £17m; Andre Schurrle was sold for £19m in 2013; Shaqiri was sold for £11m in 2012; Xhaka for £8m in 2012; Ter Stegen for £10m this summer; Reus for £15m in 2012; Pjanic for £10m in 2011; Vidal for £11m in 2011; Mertesacker for £11m in 2011; Neuer for £24m in 2011; Loic Remy for £10m in 2012; de Gea for £18m in 2011; Arteta for £11m in 2011; Joao Moutinho for £22m in 2013; and it goes on and on.

If you read beyond the crazy transfers and look at the rest of the market you will see a very different picture of what represents value.

Of course there is value out there, especially in the likes of Rakitic (different circumstances though, because Sevilla are in massive debt and their chairman basically said everyone is for sale). But even in the space of those years you mention 2011 and this year, the money for top place in the league jumped from 60m to 100m. Teams know that they there is extra income in the league and force the buying club to use it. I was just saying that given the rise in income - it's going to be proportionate to transfers and wages.

There's no doubt that there are bargains out there but a lot of those deals mentioned can also be looked at in hindsight too. 11m for Arteta as a 29 year old midfielder was about right. Neuer and De Gea were considered a lot at the time for goalkeepers (what a daft idea that is). Ter Stegen was out of contract next summer and he rejected all new offers.

Cantona's Collars · 03-07-2014 03:06PM

Sanchez may still be available,AS saying that Barca have offered €87 million for Suarez,Liverpool don't want Sanchez,just cash.

The cynic in me reckons Suarez will join Barca,appeal his ban and have it reduced to international games (Suarez underhanded? Surely not??:rolleyes: )

Anyhow,Sanchez or Di Maria lads?

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Notes in OP,22/7

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