Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Notes in OP,22/7

Reedsie · 30-06-2014 02:14PM

Billy86 wrote: »

Congratulations in having one of the weakest arguments I have ever read. Have you been watching the World Cup? Have you seen the introduction of actual water breaks to help with dehydration and exhaustion for all the players? Did you watch extra time in the Costa Rica game last night? Or the Brazil/Chile match that you are actually referring to? Or around a dozen group stage games? Did you notice that in these matches every single player was knackered by 85 minutes?

bangkok wrote: »

just on that Yesterdays match between Holland and mexico was the first match in the world cup that had an official water break...

On the heat thing, an interesting article here and thoughts from football medicine specialist Michael Davison:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/world-cup/10933062/World-Cup-2014-The-real-reason-behind-the-flurry-of-goals-and-excitement-in-Brazil.html

More goals by substitutes have already been scored than in an other full World Cup.

The heat and humidity will deplete players’ levels of glycogen – the energy stored in muscles – which leads to loss in concentration or the ability for defenders to get to the right place at the right time, such as marking their opponent in the penalty area

bangkok · 30-06-2014 02:14PM

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/485774/Chile-star-Arturo-Vidal-PREFERS-Manchester-United-move

Maximus Alexander · 30-06-2014 02:14PM

Al Capwned wrote: »

*Sources and junk*

Sh*t son, you just got Capwned.

Billy86 · 30-06-2014 02:15PM

bangkok wrote: »

sometimes its better to buy a player coming into his prime years than one already there for example Herrera was a better signing for united than Fabregas was for Chelsea and will prove better in the long run.

We could have spent stupid money on Baines last year (thankfully we didn't) and signed shaw this year

On vidal, for anyone who sees him play and knows what he is about, yes he is 27 but his game is all high tempo, flying into tackles etc, he just had knee surgery, do you all honestly think he will be the same player in 3 years time??
to spend such a huge amount on a player I would rather invest it in a younger player to be honest and Pogba if available would be my choice.

Pogba a) would almost certainly never come back to Utd after how the g's finished, and b) is not "coming into his prime". He plays in a position that has a longer learning curve than probably any other on the pitch, and it is clear ot anyone who watches him consistently (and not just YouTube compilations) that he has a lot of developing still to do.

Baines is not and never was good enough for a title chasing team. That was just classic Moyes, who also pulled the plug on Herrera to get Fellaini by many accounts.

I would have any worries about Vidal being at his best for another 4-5 years, and he fits a major need of ours: to win now. Being Man Utd gave us a pass of one disastrous season, but a repeat of missing the CL spots would be severely pushing our luck.

And you have not explained who will dictate the tempo of the game, control possession, win the ball and co tribute the necessary legwork in midfield if we signed Pogba?

bangkok · 30-06-2014 02:16PM

Billy86 wrote: »

Pogba a) would almost certainly never come back to Utd after how the g's finished, and b) is not "coming into his prime". He plays in a position that has a longer learning curve than probably any other on the pitch, and it is clear ot anyone who watches him consistently (and not just YouTube compilations) that he has a lot of developing still to do.

Baines is not and never was good enough for a title chasing team. That was just classic Moyes, who also pulled the plug on Herrera to get Fellaini by many accounts.

I would have any worries about Vidal being at his best for another 4-5 years, and he fits a major need of ours: to win now. Being Man Utd gave us a pass of one disastrous season, but a repeat of missing the CL spots would be severely pushing our luck.

And you have not explained who will dictate the tempo of the game, control possession, win the ball and co tribute the necessary legwork in midfield if we signed Pogba?

I've already told you Herrera...quality player that does it all

Rubber_Soul · 30-06-2014 02:17PM

Bangkok does have a point (albeit poorly made) that on paper Pogba, at say £60m, represents better value than Vidal at £50m due to his age and quality. That's offset by the fact there's no guarantee that, assuming he'd even entertain the notion of rejoining us, we'd even have Pogba long-term. Signing Vidal though would also be a massive improvement to our side and as a result of the improved results we'd see with him in the side, we may find it easier to sign players of his standing in the future. There's more to value than the x number of years of his contract and fee.

Kylo Ren · 30-06-2014 02:19PM

What ever happened to Le King?

Billy86 · 30-06-2014 02:19PM

bangkok wrote: »

just on that Yesterdays match between Holland and mexico was the first match in the world cup that had an official water break...

that would be Herrera

And a lot of others have looked like coming close. We've seen a lot of games slow to a snails pace in the last half hour because every outfield player is simply exhausted from the conditions.

And I dont think you are all too aware of the type of player Herrera is. He contributes on that end, but doesn't lead the defensive effort of a midfield. While I like him, I would not want him being the sole contributor in terms of work rate and aggression in a midfield battle by any means. Fletcher doesn't have the legs to help out on that end much anymore, it is not Carrick type of game, and otherwise the only other person who could help out would be Fellaini. And nobody wants to see that.

Schwiiing · 30-06-2014 02:20PM

StarshipPooper wrote: »

Bangkok does have a point (albeit poorly made) that on paper Pogba, at say £60m, represents better value than Vidal at £50m due to his age and quality. That's offset by the fact there's no guarantee that, assuming he'd even entertain the notion of rejoining us, we'd even have Pogba long-term. Signing Vidal though would also be a massive improvement to our side and as a result of the improved results we'd see with him in the side, we may find it easier to sign players of his standing in the future. There's more to value than the x number of years of his contract and fee.

Imagine the embarassment of spending £60m on a player 2 years after Utd let him go for 0. Never gonna happen.

Mitch Connor · 30-06-2014 02:22PM

Schwiiing wrote: »

Imagine the embarassment of spending £60m on a player 2 years after Utd let him go for 0. Never gonna happen.

on the other hand I reckon Woodward would love to rectify the f'up of Gill and Fergie.

Al Capwned · 30-06-2014 02:23PM

Schwiiing wrote: »

Imagine the embarassment of spending £60m on a player 2 years after Utd let him go for 0. Never gonna happen.

tbh the sight of him dominating the middle of the pitch, and holding a Premier League trophy over his head would get rid of that fairly quickly. Not that I think there would be any sense of embarrassment in any case if it were to happen.

Billy86 · 30-06-2014 02:24PM

StarshipPooper wrote: »

Bangkok does have a point (albeit poorly made) that on paper Pogba, at say £60m, represents better value than Vidal at £50m due to his age and quality. That's offset by the fact there's no guarantee that, assuming he'd even entertain the notion of rejoining us, we'd even have Pogba long-term. Signing Vidal though would also be a massive improvement to our side and as a result of the improved results we'd see with him in the side, we may find it easier to sign players of his standing in the future. There's more to value than the x number of years of his contract and fee.

It would be a good point if it were a team without an immediate need in CM, which even with the Herrera signing we still clearly have. For a Madrid or Bayern, Pogba would be the better option for example.

But that is not the case with us. We have a massive pressing need in CM still and Vidal pretty much fits it like a glove. On top of that he is the far better player right here, right now. And we need to win right now, not to develop a sometimes brilliant, sometimes infuriating player with a tonne of upside but a lot of development still required.

And as you also said, he would never return to Old Trafford, especially so soon.

Rubber_Soul · 30-06-2014 02:24PM

Schwiiing wrote: »

Imagine the embarassment of spending £60m on a player 2 years after Utd let him go for 0. Never gonna happen.

I don't think either are going to happen anyway but there's been a fair few reports from decent journo's saying that Utd realise they made a mistake and have considered it.

bangkok · 30-06-2014 02:26PM

Schwiiing wrote: »

Imagine the embarassment of spending £60m on a player 2 years after Utd let him go for 0. Never gonna happen.

in fairness, they didn't let him go, he was out of contract, they offered him a new one and he refused it.

I would imagine as well that if they were going to sign one of the juve players, nani would be used in part exchange and his value would be in the 15-18m bracket and seeing as Juve took Pogba off United maybe they would sell him back at a cheaper price than say if he were going to chelsea

GavRedKing · 30-06-2014 02:30PM

bangkok wrote: »

in fairness, they didn't let him go, he was out of contract, they offered him a new one and he refused it.

I would imagine as well that if they were going to sign one of the juve players, nani would be used in part exchange and his value would be in the 15-18m bracket and seeing as Juve took Pogba off United maybe they would sell him back at a cheaper price than say if he were going to chelsea

Its not a charity :pac:

If Utd can offer Nani

We'd potentially offer Ramires.

If Juventus lose Vidal and Pogba CM is where they need to strengthen and if they make nearly 80/90/100 million for selling two players and can get in Ramries for nothing, thats a great deal and goes along way to replacing both those players.

Lukker- · 30-06-2014 02:30PM

bangkok wrote: »

in fairness, they didn't let him go, he was out of contract, they offered him a new one and he refused it.

I would imagine as well that if they were going to sign one of the juve players, nani would be used in part exchange and his value would be in the 15-18m bracket and seeing as Juve took Pogba off United maybe they would sell him back at a cheaper price than say if he were going to chelsea

I don't think that's how transfers work.

Rubber_Soul · 30-06-2014 02:30PM

bangkok wrote: »

and seeing as Juve took Pogba off United maybe they would sell him back at a cheaper price than say if he were going to chelsea

Out of the goodness of their heart? Sorry man that's just daft. They have a prized asset, they're going to try get maximum value from it.

bangkok · 30-06-2014 02:36PM

well Fabregas to Barcelona was a lower price as Arsenal had gotten him from barca in the first place, so to was pique back to Barca from man utd, its a kind of mutual repect between clubs when they get players on the cheap or free and are going to sell them back at a big price

Maximus Alexander · 30-06-2014 02:39PM

bangkok wrote: »

well Fabregas to Barcelona was a lower price as Arsenal had gotten him from barca in the first place, so to was pique back to Barca from man utd, its a kind of mutual repect between clubs when they get players on the cheap or free and are going to sell them back at a big price

Really poor comparison. Fabregas was a Barcelona youth product (from the age of 10) and is from a town 20km down the road from Barcelona. He wanted that move, that affects the price. Pogba would have no intrinsic connection to United.

Iseedeadpixels · 30-06-2014 02:39PM

bangkok wrote: »

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/485774/Chile-star-Arturo-Vidal-PREFERS-Manchester-United-move

Chile Star Arturo Vidal prefers Manchester United move, The club have been linked with a 50 million move for the player but according to ITK boards.ie poster Bangkok he is not needed, "50 million does not represent value we are not a mad club that spends crazy money on players" fellow boards.ie posters declined to comment due to severe embarrassment.

.

GavRedKing · 30-06-2014 02:41PM

bangkok wrote: »

well Fabregas to Barcelona was a lower price as Arsenal had gotten him from barca in the first place, so to was pique back to Barca from man utd, its a kind of mutual repect between clubs when they get players on the cheap or free and are going to sell them back at a big price

Again, I dont think theres any mutual respect in football. Teams have a price, either match it or f**k off.

I mean if Pogba is sold and PSG, City, Real, Chelsea and Utd are all in and the bid is circa 60million, if Utd dont match it Juve will sell to the highest bidder, not because they got him for free and knock a few million off the price fro Utd, I just cant see that happening.

Billy86 · 30-06-2014 02:42PM

Al Capwned wrote: »

tbh the sight of him dominating the middle of the pitch, and holding a Premier League trophy over his head would get rid of that fairly quickly. Not that I think there would be any sense of embarrassment in any case if it were to happen.

To be honest though, I wouldn't have any faith in that... short term. He doesn't dominate the midfield in Italy, with superior support to what he would have here, against weaker opposition. Vidal and Pirlo do near all of the dominating for that Juve midfield at present, and while he will probably be an amazing player down the road, he is a bit of a luxury player at this point in time.

He also has a lot of maturing to do, both on and off the field; his performance against Ecuador is a good example of this.

bangkok · 30-06-2014 02:46PM

GavRedKing wrote: »

Again, I dont think theres any mutual respect in football. Teams have a price, either match it or f**k off.

I mean if Pogba is sold and PSG, City, Real, Chelsea and Utd are all in and the bid is circa 60million, if Utd dont match it Juve will sell to the highest bidder, not because they got him for free and knock a few million off the price fro Utd, I just cant see that happening.

but like another poster said, if pobga wanted the united move over all other that would affect the price as well.

and theres other terms that come into it as well, a pre season friendly in the far east could be a big draw for a team like Juve.. United have huge draw all over asia

Billy86 · 30-06-2014 02:46PM

bangkok wrote: »

well Fabregas to Barcelona was a lower price as Arsenal had gotten him from barca in the first place, so to was pique back to Barca from man utd, its a kind of mutual repect between clubs when they get players on the cheap or free and are going to sell them back at a big price

All we need now then, is to get Pogba either a) deemed somewhat surplus to requirements or not guaranteed a starting place as with Pique, and/or to actively begin campaigning for his return to Old Trafford over an extended period of time with his international teammates and to the extent where he would take a pay cut, ala Fabregas.

GavRedKing · 30-06-2014 02:49PM

bangkok wrote: »

but like another poster said, if pobga wanted the united move over all other that would affect the price as well.

and theres other terms that come into it as well, a pre season friendly in the far east could be a big draw for a team like Juve.. United have huge draw all over asia

His agent said no move is ona nd hes happy at Juventus theres also the not signing of a contract 2 years ago due to not being given a chance at Utd.

I'd be very surprised if he ended up at Utd TBH.

TheDoc · 30-06-2014 03:06PM

bangkok wrote: »

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/485774/Chile-star-Arturo-Vidal-PREFERS-Manchester-United-move

I absolutely love British papers.

Did little to squash the rumors of his departure

Actual quote "I'm going to take a holiday with my family to relax and come back stronger then before"

I'm in the wrong business. I actually consider myself more articulate then most journalists operating today, and sure I can very much intentionally misread stuff and misinterpret quotes.

In a nutshell, I could be REALLY bad at my described employment, and get all paid trips to world cups, champions league games and domestic games.

I've missed a trick here

bangkok · 30-06-2014 03:06PM

GavRedKing wrote: »

His agent said no move is ona nd hes happy at Juventus theres also the not signing of a contract 2 years ago due to not being given a chance at Utd.

I'd be very surprised if he ended up at Utd TBH.

yea me too, cant see it happening.

TheDoc · 30-06-2014 03:09PM

Rule #1

If a transfer rumour suggests a player being used in part exchange, it's instantly bull****. You can tell this by the fact rarely in the history of ever has a player in part exchange taken place.

Nevermind the fact the part exchange offerings are so blatantly a journalist thinking " o they need a striker, ow and they have a striker they could get rid off, PART EXCHANGE YO"

Rubber_Soul · 30-06-2014 03:11PM

bangkok wrote: »

well Fabregas to Barcelona was a lower price as Arsenal had gotten him from barca in the first place, so to was pique back to Barca from man utd, its a kind of mutual repect between clubs when they get players on the cheap or free and are going to sell them back at a big price

Fabregas to Barca was a lower price because Fabregas forced the move, refusing to train etc.

Adamocovic · 30-06-2014 03:32PM

Papers in Portugal and here are saying that United have made contact enquiring about William Carvalho. Seems if Vidal deal doesn't happen this is the next option. Interesting but hard to decipher what's legitimate transfer news in the papers now with us linked with everyone.

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Notes in OP,22/7

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