Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Notes in OP,22/7

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

He'll stay with you for 3 years and then sign for his boyhood dream club

Thanks always nice to hear from someone close to player to give us a better insight in what he's doing.

Pro. F wrote: »

Well that exaggeration was quite close to the usual criticisms of Nani so it's hard to tell it apart when it was in the middle of a post that seemed to be written to make a serious point.



No, that is not the reason the argument is being put forward. Nani has lit up Old Trafford as he should have and more so. He has been an excellent player when given a chance. When not given a chance he hasn't done much. That is normal.

You are making out that it is unusual or unacceptable that a player would need consistent games to produce consistent form, but it is not. It is perfectly normal and it is same for the vast majority of players, including at United. The vast majority of players don't perform at their best when taken in and out of the team, ie when not given a chance. But when Nani has the same problems it is held up as a sign of some sort of mental defect.

The reason Nani needing consistent games is pointed out in these debates is not because it's a special requirement of a peculiar player, but because the people criticising him have ignored how game-time and form works for the vast majority of players.

But I guess my look on it, is that his form obviously dipped while he was playing regularly. Unless maybe he got an injury and couldnt get himself back into the team.

He wasn't hooked from the squad while he was at the top of his game.

And I guess I look at the situation, in that he simply isn't taking the chances he is getting. It's all well and good saying he deserves a run of games, but if those appearances arnt proving dividends, a manager will have a tough call persisting with him.

But as I said earlier, the more I'm typing these posts the more I'm conflicting with myself, and debating it all in my own head. Cause I think didn't RVP hit a pretty barren spell last season, by his standards, yet Fergie persisted hoping he'd catch a break and he did.

Rooney hits his barren spells and out of form stuff and we usually persist with him. So I would concede that Nani might not be getting a fair craic of the whip, in getting some leeway in terms of appreciating his form needs some matches.

I also conceed, although was never disputing, that players require gametime to get into top form. But my point of arguement was that when you are chasing titles, you have to make tough calls on carrying a passenger, or going with someone showing more promise in training perhaps, or maybe when the pros and cons are weighed up, someone else comes out ahead. Like I don't know the thought process of managers, but if you weighed up Valencia v Nani at a very high level, you might end up with something that reads

"Valencia will give me guaranteed energy and work rate, keeping to his defensive duties"
"Nani might win me the game. Might".

I think you go with the definitives over the mights.

I think this is why I havn't jumped in with both feet on previous Nani debates, I changed my mind literally as I type on points I'm making on him. I'm going to bow out of it now. I'm just not definitive on him, I've never advocated his sale, I rate him higher then Young and Valencia, I just wonder if maybe what we say in that sensational year was as good as it gets for Nani, and won't be that again.

I'd hope that he would stay to see what happens under LVG, and sure if its not working go in January or summer. One of the noticable benefits of him is his pace and tempo, which was sorely missed in a rather lethargic attack last season.

Mr_Red wrote: »

DDG, Lindegaard, Amos
Evans, Smalling, Jones, Rafael, Evra, Shaw, Varela
Carrick, Fletcher, Herrera, Fellaini, Anderson, Cleverley, Powell
Mata, Kagawa, Januzaj, Zaha, Nani, Valencia, Young,
RVP, Rooney, Welbeck, Hernandez, Henriquez, Wilson

I would like to see the following players gone ( In Red )

Fletcher is on the way out yes

Felliani should be given time under a new manager to re capture the form we bought him on

Anderson Im guessing will be gone

Cleverly : I dont think hes a top player and is only being kept because he is home grown.

Valencia : new contract, aint going no where yet

Young : Big wages, be hard to get rid of. I agree, he should be gone

Rooney : Its a big season for him, hasnt performed at another big tournie and it will be interesting to see how him and LVG get on. Should have been sold last year but he has the talent to succeed, we have stuck with him so lets have faith in him

bucketybuck wrote: »

Every. Single. Player performs better when given a consistent starting place in the team, for incredibly obvious reasons. This is a universal truth regarding footballers, really very basic.

Nani does not get a consistent run of games, he gets start here, a sub appearance there.

Three seasons ago, when Nani was given a consistent run of games he delivered the goods.

Ergo, you get calls for Nani to be given a consistent run of games. I really don't see what is so hard to understand here.

Thats not true. Every player can perform bad or good regardless of getting starts.

Seeing as we're quite top heavy, the players I'd sell if possible would be Valencia, Young, Henriquez, Hernandez.

Realistically can see Young, Hernandez goimg anyways along with at least couple of others. Possibly even Kagawa.

Billy86 wrote: »

DDG, Lindegaard, Amos
Evans, Smalling, Jones, Rafael, Evra, Shaw, Varela
Carrick, Fletcher, Herrera, Fellaini, Anderson, Cleverley, Powell
Mata, Kagawa, Januzaj, Zaha, Lingaard, Nani, Valencia, Young,
RVP, Rooney, Welbeck, Hernandez, Henriquez, Wilson

Red is what I wouldn't be upset at leaving
Orange is what I feel I'd be torn over if they left

All assuming adequate replacements sourced and acquired, and that squad had the numbers to cope. Although I think we can get by this year with a smaller squad for obvious reasons.

Having to get back into the top 4 won't see much room for experimentation, and no midweek game means no rotation for resting.

EuropeanSon wrote: »

And if not?

Buying players always comes with a risk that they don't work out. With an 18 year old with one good season behind him that risk is higher than usual.

I'd have thought £30m would be a steep enough price for a guarantee of sorting the left back slot out for the foreseeable future. Not a bargain, but maybe an acceptable price. The fact that there a fairly big risk of it not working out (due to him being so young and only having the one good season behind him) means they've overpaid IMO.

Paying a near world record fee for that position for a teenager is never going to be considered a bargain.

Valid opinion and no one will know until his career is over whether or not the move works but my opinion is i'd rather spend 30 million on a left back with huge potential and under 20 than buy a short term fix of a 27-28 year old left back at 15-20 million .

Official now from United.

Brilliant news if Shaw is confirmed, just a question though for anyone that has seen a lot of him. When Spurs bought Bale i remember him starting out at full back, can anyone see anything in Shaw that suggests he may move out into a wing position in midfield.

Great credit due to Moyes on these deals as i'm convinced the bulk of them were in place in his tenure. Exciting times