Long term Unemployed? : What to do next

tomwaterford · 22-06-2014 09:13PM

HandoLogan wrote: »

I was on a Diploma course last year (Business studies UCC) it took me ages to actually get on a course, since there are a lot of people applying these days. When I secured a position on the course well I was friggen delighted. Both myself and my partner are unemployed at the mo so we were on the couples rate 156.00 jobseekers allowance, and like everyone else in this boat we are claiming rent allowance or mortgage allowance where you have to personally contribute some of your income from jobseekers allowance to this.

When I started the coursei automatically got an increase in allowance, this was 188.00 so I was going to use the extra money to pay for the travel expenses to the college, because with out the extra money I just could not afford to attend the course.

It wasn't long before the Southern Health Board discovered I was getting this extra money, so, since my rent allowance was based on me getting 156.00 per week, it was reviewed because of my now extra income of 188.00. After the review it was decided that my rent allowance was to be reduced and my personal contribution was to increase, effectively wiping out the extra money I was getting, making it financially impossible for me to travel and participate in this course i was so keen to do well on.

I had to give up the course, six months in. I was a bit crushed about that I a can tell you. When I rang the local community officer to discuss the decision, that destroyed any chance to complete the course, i was told by the welfare officer that, "It wasn't her problem" and she was only doing her job.

What chance do any of us have if this is an example of the barriers that are put in front of us.

that's a disgrace!!!:mad::mad::mad:

its not like you were sitting about doing f**k all....you were going out trying to better yourself and incraes your chance of getting a job and it actually is her job....is there any hope you could back into it again??

Capercaille · 22-06-2014 09:19PM

Emigrate and you won't be a burden on the state any longer.

Bpmull · 22-06-2014 09:21PM

Op if you have a trade ie Electricien etc you could consider setting up your own business. Maybe focus more on houses maintenance that kind of stuff. Either or just keep ringing every company you can think of and it only takes one of them to be looking for someone at that time and give you a chance. I am working in the construction industry well as a summer job anyway. And the amount of guys who are hired in the place I work in that might have been on the dole for 3 or 4 years all qualified guys who just couldn't get work. But just happened to call the company when they were looking for guys and got a start.

If you want to do something different then college is the way to go . Just try and find a course where you will actually get a job at the end off.

tomwaterford · 22-06-2014 09:28PM

Capercaille wrote: »

Emigrate and you won't be a burden on the state any longer.

this is not an option for long term unemployed....as they generally have nothing in savings....unless you wish to see them homeless in a forgien country???
most I know who would be long term unemployed emigrating now are sleeping on floors/couches over in London....its alright at my age...but at 35+...its not really realistic is it??

Ditch · 22-06-2014 09:29PM

yes there wrote: »

Try some independant learning. Loads of resources online. Learn a new language maybe.

Cracking idea!

iMac_Hunt · 22-06-2014 09:32PM

Paddy Cow wrote: »

BTEA is the same as the dole and SUSI cover fees. The difference between being on the dole and BTEA is that as a student, you will be vastly increasing your chances of getting a decent job once you get your diploma/degree. Being long term unemployed is not good for your cv or your sanity. At least as a student, while you might be poor, you're still in a routine and meeting people. It's very easy to become isolated when you're long term unemployed as you don't have any disposable income for socialising. This can lead to depression and demotivation.

You can also work part time and it will not affect the BTEA. Essentially, you can earn more while also having the opportunity to educate yourself.

Tardful Slakerly II · 22-06-2014 09:35PM

tomwaterford wrote: »

this is not an option for long term unemployed....as they generally have nothing in savings....unless you wish to see them homeless in a forgien country???
most I know who would be long term unemployed emigrating now are sleeping on floors/couches over in London....its alright at my age...but at 35+...its not really realistic is it??

And there are obligations, elderly parents, partners etc. It's a callous thing to say and it's phrased in a punitive way.

YbFocus · 22-06-2014 09:38PM

Paddy Cow wrote: »

BTEA is the same as the dole and SUSI cover fees. The difference between being on the dole and BTEA is that as a student, you will be vastly increasing your chances of getting a decent job once you get your diploma/degree. Being long term unemployed is not good for your cv or your sanity. At least as a student, while you might be poor, you're still in a routine and meeting people. It's very easy to become isolated when you're long term unemployed as you don't have any disposable income for socialising. This can lead to depression and demotivation.

I stand over the BTEA as something that works so well. I was out of work for 11 months and went back to college. Really wasn't sure if it was the right thing to do. Came out of college and now I'm a Mechanical Engineer working in a large Irish company.
Blown away by what its done for me

Young Blood · 22-06-2014 09:40PM

Back in 2010, I was sold the idea of going back to college to 'upskill'. I went back, studied hard and eventually got a 2.1 degree. A year later, I am unemployed.
One would think that by delaying gratification, one would be rewarded in the end. But I'm becoming quickly disillusioned with what we're being told.

Are the jobs of the future, which once required degrees, going to require Phds? Because that's what it seems like.

mad muffin · 22-06-2014 09:45PM

Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »

Avoid excessive masturbation.

Said no man ever…

renegademaster · 22-06-2014 09:52PM

HandoLogan wrote: »

Where did you volunteer? I always thought of volunteering for the Simon community but I have now idea how to go about it.

I heard if they get people calling into them to volunteer they blast them with piss, its probably best you never risked it

HandoLogan · 22-06-2014 09:54PM

tomwaterford wrote: »

that's a disgrace!!!:mad::mad::mad:

its not like you were sitting about doing f**k all....you were going out trying to better yourself and incraes your chance of getting a job and it actually is her job....is there any hope you could back into it again??

No, there is not. You read and hear about people telling us to get up off our asses and do something positive, these people don't realise the kind of obstacles that are put in our way.
Christ it's like TPTB really do not want you to better yourself, and how dare you think that you have a right to.

tomwaterford · 22-06-2014 10:01PM

HandoLogan wrote: »

No, there is not. You read and hear about people telling us to get up off our asses and do something positive, these people don't realise the kind of obstacles that are put in our way.
Christ it's like TPTB really do not want you to better yourself, and how dare you think that you have a right to.

its a pity....as education is no weight to carry (and in most cases a benefit).....I can only hope it gets better for you....I can only say I was on verge of emigrating (had a place lined up to stay at cousins couch) and by some pure fluke a neighbour was in work and heard they were looking for someone matching my qualification and gave them my number....there 6months now

y0ssar1an22 · 22-06-2014 10:03PM

During an interview, or maybe even your CV, mention that you are long term unemployed. Employers get a double tax deduction if your unemployed for more than 12 months. May help somewhat?

The One Doctor · 22-06-2014 10:11PM

Frankly I enjoy being unemployed. I apply for jobs every morning, then enjoy the rest of my day. The rent, bills and food take most of my dole money but there's a bit left to enjoy and I brew my own alcohol so it cuts down on expenses and gives me another hobby. I don't have any debts, which helps. Our first baby is due in December though, so in reality I need a job soon, even though I've only been unemployed for a week or so.

The Diabolical Monocle · 22-06-2014 10:14PM

jamesbondings wrote: »

if you can, then retrain in other areas.

Yeah, Fas will help you with that. I hear they're marvelous.

OU812 · 22-06-2014 10:24PM

Was out of work for four years, having worked for myself for a couple of years before that. Had a very brief temporary period in the middle of it that took care of a couple of bills but didn't eave much over. Luckily my wife was in a very good job & has supported us for the duration. There's absolutely nothing left over after we've paid the bills & mortgage, I get nothing of the SW despite having paid many tens of thousands in taxes each year & employing others along the way - but that's another thread.

I look after the kids while she goes out to work & it was absolutely devastating sometimes. Had bouts of depression, times when I couldn't leave the house let alone try for jobs.

Kept sending off application after application, got very few responses, even less interviews. Eventually almost a year ago I came up with an idea for an app, I developed it over a few months & then four months ago went looking for advice from an accountant friend, I'd spent all my money on getting it to where it was & wanted to know what I could do. He got me hooked up with DCEB & also shopped it around a couple of his higher earning clients to see if it would be something they'd be interested in. DCEB loved it & I'm entering their mentoring program next week, and a couple of the clients are investing in the development of the app. The company was incorporated last week, I signed a lease on some office space on Friday & we're looking at November to launch it.

It's seriously hard work, but anyone I've shown prototypes to has "got it" immediately. I'm extremely passionate about it as is everyone involved. It's a new genre of app & we know there'll be competitors who follow us to market but we have an eighteen month development roadmap already drawn up with plans to revise it every six to eight weeks with additional features. We're planning on iOS, Android & a web version.

The company currently has three employees who are the three directors, we plan to have ten on board by December. The light at the end of the tunnel is getting brighter.

jonnny68 · 22-06-2014 10:24PM

The One Doctor wrote: »

Frankly I enjoy being unemployed. I apply for jobs every morning, then enjoy the rest of my day. The rent, bills and food take most of my dole money but there's a bit left to enjoy and I brew my own alcohol so it cuts down on expenses and gives me another hobby. I don't have any debts, which helps. Our first baby is due in December though, so in reality I need a job soon, even though I've only been unemployed for a week or so.

You've been unemployed a whole week.

Grand come back in a fee months and let's see if you still enjoy being unemployed that is if isn't a lifestyle choice, which I'm sure it's not.

whirlpool · 22-06-2014 10:29PM

whirlpool wrote: »

How exactly do unemployed people pay for upskilling / going back to college ?

The Back To Education Allowance (BTEA) is only available to you once you've been on the dole for at least 9 months, and even then it still doesn't pay for much.

So I'm just wondering... if you're unemployed, on the dole and just barely making ends meet.... then where is this money supposed to come from to fund going back to college? Even if you were to spend your entire income on the cost of going back to college, you still wouldn't be able to cover it... besides also not being able to buy food or pay bills.

Same question regarding emigrating... how does a person on the dole pay for the costs of emigrating? Flights, food, accommodation and bills for the first few weeks / months. That's a few grand. And even if it was only a few hundred.... same question. Where is this money supposed to come from?

Paddy Cow wrote: »

BTEA is the same as the dole and SUSI cover fees. The difference between being on the dole and BTEA is that as a student, you will be vastly increasing your chances of getting a decent job once you get your diploma/degree. Being long term unemployed is not good for your cv or your sanity. At least as a student, while you might be poor, you're still in a routine and meeting people. It's very easy to become isolated when you're long term unemployed as you don't have any disposable income for socialising. This can lead to depression and demotivation.

That is correct - being unemployed does tend to be bad for mental health and, yes, being more qualified will, in theory, increase your chances of finding work.

However, your post doesn't address my point.

Your post was like a politician's response to my point, actually.

To reiterate, my question was about being able to finance the expenses of a college education on top of the existing basic expenses, when your only income is the dole. It does not sound at all possible. Can anyone actually explain / give a true-to-life example of how it is possible to fund it while on the dole?

The One Doctor · 22-06-2014 10:33PM

jonnny68 wrote: »

You've been unemployed a whole week.

Grand come back in a fee months and let's see if you still enjoy being unemployed that is if isn't a lifestyle choice, which I'm sure it's not.

I was unemployed for a year 4-5 years ago. Still enjoyed it. I just don't see why some people feel so guilty about it. It's just a different lifestyle. Yes, some people find it soul destroying, but I like it. I still need a job though.

Trebor176 · 22-06-2014 10:41PM

When I graduated from college with a degree in accounting & finance, I struggled to find work, and sent out many CVs. I even applied for graduate training courses in participating companies, but to no avail.

I went on the dole, and of course kept applying for the work. It was suggested that I do a FAS course in order to develop skills further, and to add to the CV. I did a course in Sage, followed a few months later by a course in Excel. I got my certificates for both, and it helped me get a 9 month internship as an accounts assistant. These were a great 9 months, let me tell you.

Having done the internship, I still couldn't get the work. Finally in January of this year, having applied to a number of job agencies, I got a full-time accounts assistant job through one of these.

There are so many possibilities: Do a course through FAS that will add to your skills, or even go back and do a degree. Or, you could take on an apprenticeship as a carpenter, an electrician, a plumber, etc. I'm sure there is the work in those areas still. Maybe the odd nixer could be done as well, if possible. Keep looking, even if it's not in an area you have worked in before. Even if it's just for a while just to earn the few bob. Courses and that could be taken during employment.

tomaussie · 22-06-2014 10:47PM

newme2006 wrote: »

My OH worked in construction as a qualified blocklayer and was working in construction for about 10 years. He had no idea what to do when all the construction jobs dried up but his focus wasn't about moaning how there is no construction jobs out there or about how he was unable to use his qualification. His focus was on getting a job to support his family.

He wasn't afraid to throw caution to the wind and try things that he'd never so much as considered before. He even worked 8 months in a role an inch over minimum wage where he worked 5-6 days a week from 12am to 8am each day.

Since then, by chance, a friend of his who was working for a company and asked him if he would be interested in selling door to door. Most people would look down their nose at it, but he, just wanting to look after his family gave it a go, it turns out he's a natural sales man and has gone from a complete inexperienced, wet behind the ears door sales man to an confident experienced team leader.

A lot of his friends who were also in the Construction trade, sit at home and b**ch about how their are no jobs out there for them, rather than looking at the roles that are on offer with fresh eyes and at least considering it.

On internships.. they might seem like you are being exploited but at least it's 9 months you can talk about on your CV. Also, some companies do offer interns opportunities to train in new skills. It's a great chance to get into an industry that you are interested in but unable to get into without the experience required. Also, check out start up's looking for interns, if you catch one early enough you will get a great chance to see a company from concept, you get to see a lot of aspects of the company that perhaps you won't ever get the chance to see in a larger more established organisation. You will also get to be in the face of the people who make the decisions on new hires.. make a job for yourself and then see what happens...

On college, if you've been unemployed for long enough (a whole other rant) you can apply for BTEA so why not go and do something and at least have an explanation for a block of no work.

Your OH sounds very motivated.

What is your job ?

tomwaterford · 22-06-2014 10:49PM

The One Doctor wrote: »

I was unemployed for a year 4-5 years ago. Still enjoyed it. I just don't see why some people feel so guilty about it. It's just a different lifestyle. Yes, some people find it soul destroying, but I like it. I still need a job though.

it is what you make of it...if you haven't any loans/big outgoings....youd just about survive...but realistically long term it will just wear you down

hawkwind23 · 22-06-2014 10:53PM

some of the replies here are ridiculous

the BETA is defo worth looking into , can do the nixers on the side to top the cash up.
wouldnt be expecting a job though after qualifying but you get a few years over and the hope that things pick up.
not as much stigma using your contributions with BETA over SW

Digital Society · 22-06-2014 10:53PM

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

Yeah, Fas will help you with that. I hear they're marvelous.

Why cant you help yourself?

Whats stopping you from applying for a course?

Digital Society · 22-06-2014 10:57PM

whirlpool wrote: »

TCan anyone actually explain / give a true-to-life example of how it is possible to fund it while on the dole?

BTEA is designed for that reason. What takes up all your expenses? SUSI pays the college fees and you get BTEA.

Unless you have a huge mortgage or something but youll have that anyway if your on the dole.

You explain a bit more on why BTEA is not enough?

Paddy Cow · 22-06-2014 11:07PM

whirlpool wrote: »

That is correct - being unemployed does tend to be bad for mental health and, yes, being more qualified will, in theory, increase your chances of finding work.

However, your post doesn't address my point.

Your post was like a politician's response to my point, actually.

To reiterate, my question was about being able to finance the expenses of a college education on top of the existing basic expenses, when your only income is the dole. It does not sound at all possible. Can anyone actually explain / give a true-to-life example of how it is possible to fund it while on the dole?

What expenses are you talking about? Books? You don't have to buy them. You can get them from the library or use online resources. Unless you are doing a fine arts course where you have to buy loads of expensive art materials, I don't see what the issue is. I'm a mature student btw in receipt of BTEA (I don't get rent allowance) and while I'm not living the high life, I get by.

Rubberchikken · 22-06-2014 11:16PM

My brother became unemployed after years of work. Dudnt want to go down the long term sugning on route. He did a plc course and got accepted into an IT and has just finished a very successful 4 years.
He never got the chance to go to college before but he had a ball, and this is a 51 yo married guy:)

What im saying is you're never to old to learn and if doing mothing and signing on is not for you then consider further education.
Good luck.
And a good thread btw.

Ineedaname · 22-06-2014 11:26PM

I was unemployed for over a year. I sent in loads of CVs but I hardly ever got a reply let alone an interview. After a while you ask yourself "What's the point? They won't reply anyway?" In time it really chips away at your sense of self worth.

In the end I decided to go to college. It was great and BTEA was a great help.

In the long run losing my job was a blessing in disguise. It really gave me an opportunity to try something new and it was well worth it.

KP81 · 22-06-2014 11:34PM

HandoLogan wrote: »

I was on a Diploma course last year (Business studies UCC) it took me ages to actually get on a course, since there are a lot of people applying these days. When I secured a position on the course well I was friggen delighted. Both myself and my partner are unemployed at the mo so we were on the couples rate 156.00 jobseekers allowance, and like everyone else in this boat we are claiming rent allowance or mortgage allowance where you have to personally contribute some of your income from jobseekers allowance to this.

When I started the coursei automatically got an increase in allowance, this was 188.00 so I was going to use the extra money to pay for the travel expenses to the college, because with out the extra money I just could not afford to attend the course.

It wasn't long before the Southern Health Board discovered I was getting this extra money, so, since my rent allowance was based on me getting 156.00 per week, it was reviewed because of my now extra income of 188.00. After the review it was decided that my rent allowance was to be reduced and my personal contribution was to increase, effectively wiping out the extra money I was getting, making it financially impossible for me to travel and participate in this course i was so keen to do well on.

I had to give up the course, six months in. I was a bit crushed about that I a can tell you. When I rang the local community officer to discuss the decision, that destroyed any chance to complete the course, i was told by the welfare officer that, "It wasn't her problem" and she was only doing her job.

What chance do any of us have if this is an example of the barriers that are put in front of us.

Plenty of students get by on far less than you get and yet finish their course. Sorry to say but you sound like a quitter. Why didn't you get a bike? Cork is a small city, pretty much everywhere can be done on a bike (particularly with all the new cycle lanes). I cycled from glanmire to ballincollig for a job every day when younger. Nothing worth doing gets handed to you on a plate.

Long term Unemployed? : What to do next

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