A Focus on Irish Games Developers - bitSmith Games

bitSmith Games: Owen · 17-06-2014 02:59PM

Botulism wrote: »

How did you guys get noticed in the first place? I remember seeing you at the Windows gaming conference in the Aviva back in 2013, but how did you make it into the mainstream?

We really would not consider ourselves in the mainstream yet. Everything we do is an uphill struggle to get attention. Coming from a community without a lineage of IndieDevelopment makes it even harder.

The key is carful and consistent effort from the whole team. We enter every competition and event. We show our games where ever we can. We live stream development every Friday. Perhaps most importantly, over the last 3 years we have slowly built friendships with Indies from other communities. They are really helpful, offering us advice and support and every turn.

witnessmenow · 18-06-2014 01:19AM

Hey guys,

Really interesting thread!

I'll probably have a couple of questions but here are the first couple

Did you consider the Ouya Free the Games Fund? - If you are not familiar with it, basically it is that Ouya would match dollar for dollar anything raised on Kickstarter between $10k - $250k. In exchange for this you need to make the game the an Ouya exclusive for a set amount of time, but its pretty clear in the T&S that a PC version may be released during this time (just not before the Ouya version). Would seem like it would have been a relatively easy way of doubling the money seeing as there is a direct route from Unity to Ouya/Android. (Now saying that I have never used Unity or exported it to Ouya so I have no idea what is involved!)

Any Tips on marketing games? - other than doing a deal with boards.ie!

Dav · 18-06-2014 02:59PM

Just for the record, there's no real deal per sé - there's no money or advertising or whatever involved in this - it's just something we're doing cause we think it's a nice thing to do (and I'm a gamer, it's in my blood so I wanna see more games)

So if there are any others looking to be involved in this process and are worried about what it might cost, please don't, the only cost will be the time you can spend on it. I've already had 3 other Boardsies get in touch with me about showing off their work so we should have a nice collection of interesting stories, experiences and advice to come out of this.

witnessmenow · 18-06-2014 03:10PM

Dav wrote: »

Just for the record, there's no real deal per sé - there's no money or advertising or whatever involved in this - it's just something we're doing cause we think it's a nice thing to do (and I'm a gamer, it's in my blood so I wanna see more games) So if there are any others looking to be involved in this process and are worried about what it might cost, please don't, the only cost will be the time you can spend on it. I've already had 3 other Boardsies get in touch with me about showing off their work so we should have a nice collection of interesting stories, experiences and advice to come out of this.

I kind of figured as much, but it is still some form of deal

I think its great though, as I said in my other post its really interesting and also even just to bring some more traffic to this forum.

Call Me Jimmy · 18-06-2014 03:37PM

Best of luck with the game lads, I saw the video for the kickstarter a week or two ago and was impressed by the game mechanics (and visuals). As you's have said here, FUN, the essence of it comes across in the short clip.

I'm wondering what advice you'd give to a lone developer. When the prototype is complete and I'm confident I have something what would be the next steps besides the art (mainly 2d, I can't compete in 3d yet with even teams the size of yourselves).

My plan is to use the 'Flappy Bird' ad model, where there is maybe an pop up ad on loading and/or between 'lives'. Because my idea is sports related I may be able to incorporate in-game advertising in a way that is non-pervasive. I'm wondering, do you think a free game with ads, if it is fundamentally sound and relatively addictive/enjoyable, will make anything more than crumbs?

Also, would someone have to register a business in order to make money through games?

bitSmith Games: Owen · 18-06-2014 03:44PM

witnessmenow wrote: »

Hey guys,

Really interesting thread!

I'll probably have a couple of questions but here are the first couple

Did you consider the Ouya Free the Games Fund? - If you are not familiar with it, basically it is that Ouya would match dollar for dollar anything raised on Kickstarter between $10k - $250k. In exchange for this you need to make the game the an Ouya exclusive for a set amount of time, but its pretty clear in the T&S that a PC version may be released during this time (just not before the Ouya version). Would seem like it would have been a relatively easy way of doubling the money seeing as there is a direct route from Unity to Ouya/Android. (Now saying that I have never used Unity or exported it to Ouya so I have no idea what is involved!)

Thanks

Most deals like this require a period of exclusivity and that is just too risky for us right now. Right now, we are full indie, no investors, no publishers, just us. That means that anything that limits our impact is very dangerous, even if it nets us an extra few bucks.

If the community asks for it, we will do an Ouya version. But that would be after the Steam and GOG versions.

witnessmenow wrote: »

Any Tips on marketing games? - other than doing a deal with boards.ie!

We are terrible at marketing our games but I will give this a shot.
Firstly, make a good game. You do this not by being hyper talented, but by carefully testing your game with strangers, listening to what they say and making small adjustments.
Secondly, travel to other game development communities and make friends with the developers and press there. They will help you get the message out when the time comes.
Finally, be yourself. No one wants to listen to you pretend to be a AAA studio. They want to here all the weirdest things about you and your process.

bitSmith Games: Owen · 18-06-2014 03:58PM

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

Best of luck with the game lads, I saw the video for the kickstarter a week or two ago and was impressed by the game mechanics (and visuals). As you's have said here, FUN, the essence of it comes across in the short clip.

I'm wondering what advice you'd give to a lone developer. When the prototype is complete and I'm confident I have something what would be the next steps besides the art (mainly 2d, I can't compete in 3d yet with even teams the size of yourselves).

My plan is to use the 'Flappy Bird' ad model, where there is maybe an pop up ad on loading and/or between 'lives'. Because my idea is sports related I may be able to incorporate in-game advertising in a way that is non-pervasive. I'm wondering, do you think a free game with ads, if it is fundamentally sound and relatively addictive/enjoyable, will make anything more than crumbs?

Also, would someone have to register a business in order to make money through games?

Ok,woah. There is a lot going on here. Sit down and sit further down and lets get into this.

First of all, this is all just some guys opinion. Some guys who is still a beginner at all this.

Do not try to make money with your first game. Your first game should be about learning your craft. Making something fun and polished, teaching the player, finding an audience, handling feedback. There is enough here to keep you very busy without adding money. The vast majority of games make little to no money, and many games that we think of as successful don't make much money either. The day we broke the Top 100 in the US App store we sold about 200 copies.

200 copies to break the top 100 in the US. Woah.

Making money is not a good motivation to make games. If you know how to make games you can make tens of thousands of euro doing other much easier work.

My suggestion would be to try and make the best game you can, release it for free, and judge your success by how many players you get. Then, when you get to game 2 or 3 or even 4, start thinking about making money.

I think a free game with add can be perfectly good, but it does spoil the moment sometimes. But crumbs is exactly what the vast majority of them earn.

Making games with out art is my preferred method too. It's great to hear that your prototype is coming together, just remember to test is as much as you can with new players. A game without a player is just a piece of software.

I run an event called dubLUDO.
Have you heard of it? You should bring you game.

Call Me Jimmy · 18-06-2014 04:19PM

Very much appreciate that!

I hadn't heard of dubLUDO but I will definitely keep it in mind. Making money isn't THE motivation but I'm wondering will it be possible to support myself while I make games. I amn't a fan of programming for programming sake, what makes it worthwhile is making something people can enjoy.

I have been putting pressure on myself with my first effort but you are right, I need the reality check of going through the ENTIRE process of releasing a game. I have limited the scope to as small as possible, but naively was thinking it could make money. I will remove this focus for the first effort (I'm not short on ideas).

Do you think a game of relatively small scope, designed for small smartphones, would be given a chance by developers at say something like this dubLUDO,would be taken seriously? What do yous think of the state of mobile gaming personally (not tablets)?

witnessmenow · 18-06-2014 04:48PM

Thanks for the reply Owen.

Re Ouya: Yeah completely understand, I was just wondering was it something you considered as it doesn't seem to clash with your current deployment strategy of PC only (according to the KS). I will post up the game on Ouyaforum.com, its the most populated group of Ouya fans. Be expecting tweets and emails off them soon, they are a dedicated bunch!

Re Marketing: Is there any where/way you recommend getting the word out there for user feedback? I have a game i put out for initial release and I'm struggling to get feedback on it. It is completely free so there is no barrier to entry. My friends will always oblige me a play test or two, but they probably have grown to close to it and are not seeing with new eyes and some UX gaps get missed.

I'm a little bit the wrong side of the country for the community stuff (i.e. I don't live in Dublin

), but I have tried to go to a few and would always be interested in more. Which/What do you recommend? I've been to 3 Global Gamecrafts (Dublin 13, Derry 13 and Galway 14) and have really enjoyed them. Met some cool people at them.

Ha, I dont think anyone would ever confuse me for a real studio, never mind a AAA one!

Another couple for you,
Whats your proudest moment in Game Dev so far?

What gets you through the low points of Game dev?

Thanks!

MagicIRL · 19-06-2014 11:03AM

Wavioli wrote: »

I'm from a web development background myself, and I found Unity incredibly easy to get up and running with. Unity being free is a big plus, also there are a ton of great tutorials out there, my advice would be download the free version and just get stuck in, you can always get an artist later!

Bump on this question!

Any particular tutorials you would recommend? I'm aiming to go in to Game Design & Development myself (specialising in it come September in NCI) and absolutely love the old school side-scroller genre (think Streets of Rage, Metal Slug, heck even Crash Bandicoot!) and having never used United before, I'm looking for all the advice I can get!

Maximus Alexander · 19-06-2014 11:07AM

MagicIRL wrote: »

Bump on this question!

Any particular tutorials you would recommend? I'm aiming to go in to Game Design & Development myself (specialising in it come September in NCI) and absolutely love the old school side-scroller genre (think Streets of Rage, Metal Slug, heck even Crash Bandicoot!) and having never used United before, I'm looking for all the advice I can get!

Unity is extremely popular and, as a result, there are tons of resources to help you learn on the web. The documentation provided by Unity themselves is excellent, then there's the wonderful Cooking With Unity series on YouTube, along with much, much more.

Get stuck in!

MagicIRL · 19-06-2014 11:12AM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Unity is extremely popular and, as a result, there are tons of resources to help you learn on the web. The documentation provided by Unity themselves is excellent, then there's the wonderful Cooking With Unity series on YouTube, along with much, much more.

Get stuck in!

Well, Space Invaders is getting made this weekend. Cheers! (Assuming I don't crash the car during my first lesson on Friday:eek:)

witnessmenow · 19-06-2014 11:19AM

Don't mean to hijack, but I would also recommend people check out LibGDX for developing games too. I'm a software engineer in my day job with pretty much no prior game experience and I really like it. Completely free and deploys to Android and desktop very easily. It also has a route to IOS (never tried) and HTML (never worked right for me, I think my game is too complex for it)

EDIT: Magic - you should start a thread about it and post up any links you find useful or any questions you have. It will also give you some motivation to not put it on the long finger :P

SuperChar · 19-06-2014 11:30AM

Hi guys, my name's Jan and I'm 13
Ever since I was small I've wanted to make games, particularly programming or level design since I'm not good at art or music, but can never really get my head around all the code
I'm learning C++ at the moment, but all the free engines run C# or Javascript or something so I just want to know should I continue with C++, (My book is a "Learn C++ in 3 weeks", and I'm only about 5 days in) or learn something to correspond to the big engines
Thanks, Jan

Daeltaja · 19-06-2014 02:52PM

SuperChar wrote: »

Hi guys, my name's Jan and I'm 13
Ever since I was small I've wanted to make games, particularly programming or level design since I'm not good at art or music, but can never really get my head around all the code
I'm learning C++ at the moment, but all the free engines run C# or Javascript or something so I just want to know should I continue with C++, (My book is a "Learn C++ in 3 weeks", and I'm only about 5 days in) or learn something to correspond to the big engines
Thanks, Jan

Hi Jan!

I guess it differs for everyone. From my experience, learning C++ (or any language) from a book is a pretty tricky affair. I would say that you'd have an easier time learning C#/Java with Unity and the vast range of free learning resources you can find on the net. Make some small games and build your way up. If you really like it and get into it, maybe you should think about applying for a Computer Science degree in college where you will be given all the foundations you need for C++ and other languages.

Wavioli · 19-06-2014 04:18PM

witnessmenow wrote: »

Thanks for the reply Owen.

Re Ouya: Yeah completely understand, I was just wondering was it something you considered as it doesn't seem to clash with your current deployment strategy of PC only (according to the KS). I will post up the game on Ouyaforum.com, its the most populated group of Ouya fans. Be expecting tweets and emails off them soon, they are a dedicated bunch!

Re Marketing: Is there any where/way you recommend getting the word out there for user feedback? I have a game i put out for initial release and I'm struggling to get feedback on it. It is completely free so there is no barrier to entry. My friends will always oblige me a play test or two, but they probably have grown to close to it and are not seeing with new eyes and some UX gaps get missed.

I'm a little bit the wrong side of the country for the community stuff (i.e. I don't live in Dublin ), but I have tried to go to a few and would always be interested in more. Which/What do you recommend? I've been to 3 Global Gamecrafts (Dublin 13, Derry 13 and Galway 14) and have really enjoyed them. Met some cool people at them.

Ha, I dont think anyone would ever confuse me for a real studio, never mind a AAA one!

Another couple for you,
Whats your proudest moment in Game Dev so far?

What gets you through the low points of Game dev?

Thanks!

RE getting your game out there, try some of the gamedev boards like tigsource, makega.me, there are a few subreddits out there too - indiegamedev runs something called screenshot saturday where you can post and get feedback from other devs, also theres a hashtag on twitter on wednesday evenings its most active but you can post any time - the hashtag escapes me right now (sorry!)

RE: proudest moment - hmmmm... winning some awards at the game fleadh was nice, but I think getting on RPS/Eurogamer for the first time was pretty awesome!

RE: low points - booze. :P

Wavioli · 19-06-2014 04:22PM

MagicIRL wrote: »

Bump on this question!

Any particular tutorials you would recommend? I'm aiming to go in to Game Design & Development myself (specialising in it come September in NCI) and absolutely love the old school side-scroller genre (think Streets of Rage, Metal Slug, heck even Crash Bandicoot!) and having never used United before, I'm looking for all the advice I can get!

Owen mentioned a site in a comment above, it's very good - I cant post links yet! (only a couple of posts off that ;-) )

Star Lord · 19-06-2014 08:33PM

Loving the look of the game guys, joined in with the kickstarter yesterday, really hope it works out! Great seeing Irish developers getting noticed, and making stuff that genuinely looks interesting and fun!

witnessmenow · 20-06-2014 08:38AM

SuperChar wrote: »

Hi guys, my name's Jan and I'm 13
Ever since I was small I've wanted to make games, particularly programming or level design since I'm not good at art or music, but can never really get my head around all the code
I'm learning C++ at the moment, but all the free engines run C# or Javascript or something so I just want to know should I continue with C++, (My book is a "Learn C++ in 3 weeks", and I'm only about 5 days in) or learn something to correspond to the big engines
Thanks, Jan

Again I don't mean to hijack the thread but I thought I would just give my opinion on this.

Don't worry too much about languages when you are learning to program. The basic logic behind programming is the same regardless of what language you use. There will be differences between them for sure, but once you understand the concepts of programming in one language, picking up a new one will be no problem at all.

Although C++ probably isn't the most common choice for starting out on if you learning with your self I would recommend seeing it out, it will do you no harm what so ever. The book you have seems pretty well reviewed. You only have 16 days left of it anyways :pac:

Personally I think it is important to get a decent understanding of Object Oriented programming (languages such as C++, C# and Java all fall under this category) before starting "proper" game development. It's much easier to pick up the concepts tutorials teach you if you already understand the structure of the code etc.

Even when you are just learning the language you can start making simple games though, after you have learnt reading input from a user and printing out to the screen you could make something simple like a rock, paper, scissors game. It might not be the most interesting thing in the world but it is important to start small and get used to finishing projects out. The majority of games that get started, don't get finished. But I promise you, you will learn from every project you do!

There will be times when you need to cut projects short and don't be afraid to call time on a project if it has ran its course. E.G. I had an idea for an top down ice hockey game with really simple movements, left stick to move players, right stick to rotate the stick. I developed a prototype of it over a couple of weeks. I played against my brother and it just was not fun, and I didnt see how i could change it to make it fun. So despite it running well and looking pretty well I just open sourced it and cut my ties with it.

If you have any questions or issues with particular parts of programming don't be afraid to ask for help. Software development is full of really helpful people. Put up a thread on this forum documenting your progress and put up links you found useful, you might even find it useful later on if you want a refresher on something.

Last point I would make, if you want to make games now, there is absolutely no shame in making games with tools that don't require programming such as Game Maker Studio or Consturct 2. Trust me, any body who says other wise (and there will be people) is wrong! You might not have the same flexibility as development (to be honest I'm not sure, I've never used them) but if you can create a game that is fun to play it really does't matter how you got there. Players dont care how it was written, they only care about an enjoyable experience. I do still recommend learning to program, its hard to see it now but it will be a huge advantage to you in later life if you can already program.

Best of luck!

Wavioli · 20-06-2014 12:41PM

spot on!

Wavioli · 20-06-2014 12:42PM

DamoElDiablo wrote: »

Loving the look of the game guys, joined in with the kickstarter yesterday, really hope it works out! Great seeing Irish developers getting noticed, and making stuff that genuinely looks interesting and fun!

Thanks Damo, its a tough ride, we're really going to have to double down on our efforts in the next two weeks to get there, thanks for your support and spread the word!

Kilgore__Trout · 20-06-2014 11:36PM

Hi guys,

Thanks for dropping in to talk about your experiences of game development. FranknJohn looks like it’s shaping up nicely. Really like the head switching mechanic, reminds me a little of Kid Chameeon on the Mega Drive.

I’m hoping to release my first game (PC) in a few weeks, and was hoping you might be able to give me some advice on getting the word out. I spent around 2 weeks contacting reviewers (both traditional and youtube based), and got a reasonable amount of interest in the release version.

What I’m most curious about is whether it’s worth spending a few more days attempting to get in touch with a few people who didn’t get back to me again, and if so, what approach to take. I fully understand games journalists get a lot of contact from devs, way more than they can cover. The first email I sent announced the game, gave a link to a preview copy, essential information about the game, and offered a review copy when it is available. Any suggestions?

HellSpark · 23-06-2014 12:56AM

Hi everyone my name is Michael fitzpatrick, I am 31 and have been programming in various languages since I was about 21 so about ten years, I have been experimenting with different games engines since then too mainly blitz basic and later unreal engine 3 also recently unreal engine 4, I love games it's always been extremely interesting to me to see how they have evolved and also where the technology might go in the future. I really enjoy learning all paths of game development and that's how I spend a lot of my free time, which being unemployed I have plenty of. I am also fairly good at 3d modelling both characters and props/environments. I have been offered jobs but they never really panned out, you can see a sample of my work on YouTube search for "mike fitzpatrick unreal engine", I am actually looking for people to help me make a game, however I can't pay you but can offer you a fair cut of the profits( royalties) I have a rough idea of what I would like to do but am also open to suggestions as far as story and game play go, my ultimate goal is to set up a proper studio so if the game did well enough I'd be looking into doing that. If that ever happened there would be paid positions available(salary). Am mainly looking for people in Dublin area. I think it's important to meet face to face when working on a project, email and Skype just isn't good enough. I'm also willing to help teach people how to do the things necessary in order to make a game but it will require an investment of time on your side, I can teach you how to use zbrush, 3d studio max, photo shop (all totally necessary for modern games) and I can teach you how to program and use games engines such as unreal engine four. If you already have some expertise then the roles i would be looking to fill would be, programmer, modeller, concept artist, sound technician, engine specialist( unreal engine 4) maybe a story writer not sure, however if you have an interest in games and would like to be part of a project that depending on how much effort you put in has the potential of launching your career in the games industry, please send me a message and we can organise having a chat I'm not gonna take on the role of being your boss I'm looking for a friend who has as much interest as I do in making some cash doing something they enjoy, check out my YouTube videos to see the level of quality I can bring to a project everything in those videos was made and coded by me the only thing I didn't make was the music

Wavioli · 23-06-2014 01:47AM

Kilgore__Trout wrote: »

Hi guys,

Thanks for dropping in to talk about your experiences of game development. FranknJohn looks like it’s shaping up nicely. Really like the head switching mechanic, reminds me a little of Kid Chameeon on the Mega Drive.

I’m hoping to release my first game (PC) in a few weeks, and was hoping you might be able to give me some advice on getting the word out. I spent around 2 weeks contacting reviewers (both traditional and youtube based), and got a reasonable amount of interest in the release version.

What I’m most curious about is whether it’s worth spending a few more days attempting to get in touch with a few people who didn’t get back to me again, and if so, what approach to take. I fully understand games journalists get a lot of contact from devs, way more than they can cover. The first email I sent announced the game, gave a link to a preview copy, essential information about the game, and offered a review copy when it is available. Any suggestions?

Yeah its absolutely worth giving them another go. Just be nice :P

This is worth a read also http://gillen.cream.org/wordpress_html/assorted-essays/how-to-use-and-abuse-the-games-press-and-how-the-games-press-wants-to-use-and-abuse-you/

Dav · 23-06-2014 12:46PM

I just want to say a big thank you to all of the bitSmith Team who were active here and sharing their experiences and expertise.

Please, if you haven't already, consider throwing a few quid at their FrankNJohn Kickstarter, I can't wait to see what comes of the entire game (and I need to talk to you about making a head that maps to the mouse controls so you can really swing it around rather than just attacking in the direction on a thumb stick!).

Tomorrow we'll have some of the team from Gone Gaming (and yes, that's our own DeVore/Tom Murphy's company). Thank you everyone for joining in.

Lone Stone · 28-06-2014 10:46AM

Looks cool good luck with it !

Manutd_4life · 20-08-2014 04:47PM

Can someone give me the address and email for bitSmith studios in Dublin. Can't seem to find it online

Wambo · 25-08-2014 08:33AM

To anybody who is wondering about marketing. My best advice would be to go on social media. Youtube, twitter, facebook etc. This is how all the big internet business get more sales on their products. I'll use a few examples. Elagto (a company who sell capture cards for recording gameplay) Scuff controllers (a company who make customized controllers for pro gaming)

What these companies do is actually a pretty smart tactic. They sponsor and have big these youtubers advertise their products for them through their videos etc. Think of it, if you have say, 20 youtubers (All of them having over 100k subscribers) advertise your product for you. You can only imagine the attention that your product will get if their viewers find it convincing enough.

Anyways, good luck getting the game out there lads! Be great to see the gaming scene in ireland grow

A Focus on Irish Games Developers - bitSmith Games

Comments