A Slow Journey to Faster Times

yaboya1 · 01-06-2014 02:03PM

ger664 wrote: »

yaboya1

I would do the Hadd stuff until 7-8 weeks out from Berlin. Take a recovery week and jump in at week 6 (race prep) of P&D whatever mileage plan you get to in Hadd, most likely be 55-70 for you. That is pretty much what I did last year for Seville. Loads of slow easy running form June to Christmas and the race prep. The race prep plan is where I really got the gains from all the slow miles done during the year.

A couple of points I find with the HR stuff. Heat will have a bearing on it so you need to adjust if training during the day as apposed to early morning late summer. I find once I hit the two hour mark at the slow run my HR will start to rise but the effort still seems the same.

Ger

Thanks Ger. I'm happy to be patient and run at the lower HR, but I just don't want to be running 'garbage miles' for the sake of it. The Frank Duffy 10 Miler is exactly 5 weeks from Berlin, so I might run that rather than the recommended race six four weeks out. Maybe swap those two weeks around?
I think I will try and get most of my runs in the early morning if possible, as I've already seen lately how much the heat can affect the HR. It's much less of an issue before 12pm. I've been doing my best just to build a solid base with plenty of miles, but running relatively slow all the time makes you start to doubt you can go faster. That's probably why i raced so much recently :P.
The upcoming 2400m test and Portumna HM will really give me the confidence to continue this way if I achieve the results I'm hoping for there.

yaboya1 · 01-06-2014 11:58PM

Sunday 1st June - 120 minutes Easy
14m @ 8:34/m average (125bpm avg)

Simple plan tonight. Two hours of easy running keeping the HR below 130bpm. All targets achieved. Delighted with that and the fact that I managed to fit it in at all today after a far from ideal few hours earlier on. Beautiful night out there. Absolutely perfect for running.

Splits:

Mile 1 - 8:24 (116bpm)
Mile 2 - 8:32 (123bpm)
Mile 3 - 8:42 (126bpm)
Mile 4 - 8:50 (127bpm)
Mile 5 - 8:42 (125bpm)
Mile 6 - 8:15 (124bpm)
Mile 7 - 8:15 (125bpm)
Mile 8 - 8:30 (126bpm)
Mile 9 - 8:30 (126bpm)
Mile 10 - 8:25 (126bpm)
Mile 11 - 8:41 (127bpm)
Mile 12 - 8:31 (128bpm)
Mile 13 - 8:44 (127bpm)
Mile 14 - 8:56 (127bpm)

yaboya1 · 02-06-2014 06:19PM

Monday 2nd June - 60 minutes Easy
6.72m @ 8:58/m average (121bpm avg)

An hour of recovery running after last night's longish run. I'm due to run another Steady session tomorrow, but I've a long day in work ahead of me so may push that back to Wednesday in favour of a few more easy miles. It all depends on how I feel in the morning.

Splits:

Mile 1 - 8:53 (119bpm)
Mile 2 - 8:54 (122bpm)
Mile 3 - 9:08 (121bpm)
Mile 4 - 9:08 (122bpm)
Mile 5 - 8:52 (124bpm)
Mile 6 - 8:57 (122bpm)
0.72 -6:26 (123bpm)

yaboya1 · 03-06-2014 12:23PM

Tuesday 3rd June - 60 minutes Easy
6.65m @ 9:01/m average (122bpm avg)

Another beautiful morning would seem to signal that the summer is finally here to stay. A pretty similar workout to yesterday. The HRM went a bit crazy in the first mile for some reason, showing readings of up to 168bpm despite the fact that I was never moving faster than 9min/mile pace! :eek:. It settled down after that. I'll more than likely wait until the evening time for tomorrow's Steady session to avoid the heart rate being too heavily influenced by the outside temperature.

Splits:

Mile 1 - 9:12 (130bpm??)
Mile 2 - 8:56 (115bpm)
Mile 3 - 9:10 (117bpm)
Mile 4 - 9:02 (121bpm)
Mile 5 - 9:04 (123bpm)
Mile 6 - 8:58 (125bpm)
0.65 - 5:40 (124bpm)

yaboya1 · 04-06-2014 07:20PM

Wednesday 4th June - 75 minutes Steady (preceded by 10 x 100m Strides)
10.5m @ 7:20p/m average (145bpm avg)
Strides: (18:06, 18:30, 18:70, 19:52, 17:65, 19:04, 18:83, 18:33, 17:23, 18:57)

Decided to finally change the log title to something that won't be out of date after my next marathon :pac:

I left this run until the evening time, rather than going out in the midday sun with the mad dogs & Englishmen. The route I took meant the wind was with me, against me and across me at different stages. The splits are inconsistent again because of this, and appear to be rising towards the end which I think is a little misleading. If I'd finished the 11th mile, I'm sure it would have been as quick as one of the early miles and definitely below the average for the whole run. Maybe I should just do the whole session on a track next time? Then the entire workout would be evenly balanced against the elements. Anyway although it's slower than I would like/expect overall, one thing I noticed is that it felt incredibly easy to run at this pace and I certainly wouldn't have had any problem going around again at the same speed. If we look at the facts rather than my opinion, the average pace of the last two of these Steady sessions are within a second of each other over more than ten miles. Maybe it's time to move up to 150bpm? Thoughts anyone?

Splits:

Mile 1 - 6:59 (144bpm)
Mile 2 - 7:12 (146bpm)
Mile 3 - 7:12 (145bpm)
Mile 4 - 7:23 (146bpm)
Mile 5 - 7:22 (146bpm)
Mile 6 - 7:29 (146bpm)
Mile 7 - 7:20 (146bpm)
Mile 8 - 7:14 (146bpm)
Mile 9 - 7:30 (146bpm)
Mile 10 - 7:34 (146bpm)
0.5 - 3:44 (146bpm)

Calvin Johnson · 04-06-2014 08:14PM

Why do you pretend to do things slowly?

Your progress during Seville training was rapid and if anything it's got even quicker since!

FBOT01 · 04-06-2014 08:25PM

yaboya1 wrote: »

Decided to finally change the log title to something that won't be out of date after my next marathon :pac:

I am hoping my log title will be out of date after my next marathon;)

Another good solid session. I wouldn't be losing any sleep over the wind or you may never sleep in this country.

yaboya1 · 04-06-2014 08:44PM

Calvin Johnson wrote: »

Why do you pretend to do things slowly?

Your progress during Seville training was rapid and if anything it's got even quicker since!

If I knock another 26 minutes off my PB in Berlin, I'll change the wording in the title to 'fast' rather than 'slow'

Ferris B · 04-06-2014 10:11PM

yaboya1 wrote: »

Wednesday 4th June - 75 minutes Steady (preceded by 10 x 100m Strides)
10.5m @ 7:20p/m average (145bpm avg)
Strides: (18:06, 18:30, 18:70, 19:52, 17:65, 19:04, 18:83, 18:33, 17:23, 18:57)

Decided to finally change the log title to something that won't be out of date after my next marathon :pac:

I left this run until the evening time, rather than going out in the midday sun with the mad dogs & Englishmen. The route I took meant the wind was with me, against me and across me at different stages. The splits are inconsistent again because of this, and appear to be rising towards the end which I think is a little misleading. If I'd finished the 11th mile, I'm sure it would have been as quick as one of the early miles and definitely below the average for the whole run. Maybe I should just do the whole session on a track next time? Then the entire workout would be evenly balanced against the elements. Anyway although it's slower than I would like/expect overall, one thing I noticed is that it felt incredibly easy to run at this pace and I certainly wouldn't have had any problem going around again at the same speed. If we look at the facts rather than my opinion, the average pace of the last two of these Steady sessions are within a second of each other over more than ten miles. Maybe it's time to move up to 150bpm? Thoughts anyone?

Splits:

Mile 1 - 6:59 (144bpm)
Mile 2 - 7:12 (146bpm)
Mile 3 - 7:12 (145bpm)
Mile 4 - 7:23 (146bpm)
Mile 5 - 7:22 (146bpm)
Mile 6 - 7:29 (146bpm)
Mile 7 - 7:20 (146bpm)
Mile 8 - 7:14 (146bpm)
Mile 9 - 7:30 (146bpm)
Mile 10 - 7:34 (146bpm)
0.5 - 3:44 (146bpm)

Great running but if you're looking for thoughts, and I guess I'm more asking rather than telling, but is it a bit fast for a mid week 10 mile? I'm not familiar with the hadd program but the warm up was 10 strides

followed by 10 miles at mp+30 (ish). In my mind that's a tough workout 17wks from your goal.

yaboya1 · 05-06-2014 12:03AM

Ferris B wrote: »

Great running but if you're looking for thoughts, and I guess I'm more asking rather than telling, but is it a bit fast for a mid week 10 mile? I'm not familiar with the hadd program but the warm up was 10 strides followed by 10 miles at mp+30 (ish). In my mind that's a tough workout 17wks from your goal.

The HADD programme involves two Steady sessions (normally Tuesday & Friday) and one long run at the weekend, with the remainder of the week filled with easy miles. I think I read on a post here that the strides should be thrown in before the Steady sessions to retain speed? I pushed today's workout back a day as I was busy most of yesterday. I know it might seem a lot/difficult, but these are the most stressful sessions I do. All my other running is at 125-130bpm and I don't have any LT or VO2 Max days. These sessions can be hard to begin with when you originally move up to the required HR, but after a while they seem to take less and less effort. I'm going to do my long run on Friday this week and replace that Steady session with the 2400m test on Sunday. The whole idea is that eventually I will get to a stage where running at my marathon pace for 26.2 miles actually feels 'easy'. There is no timeframe though. Apparently it takes as long as it takes. I'm just hoping that in my case it now takes less than 17 weeks :pac:

yaboya1 · 05-06-2014 09:23AM

Thursday 5th June - 60 minutes Easy
7.17m @ 8:22/m average (124bpm avg)

Got out nice and early for this one. Beautiful conditions along the coast. Really enjoyed it.

Splits:

Mile 1 - 8:21 (120bpm)
Mile 2 - 8:05 (123bpm)
Mile 3 - 8:12 (124bpm)
Mile 4 - 8:26 (124bpm)
Mile 5 - 8:33 (127bpm)
Mile 6 - 8:33 (127bpm)
Mile 7 - 8:21 (125bpm)
0.17 -1:32 (126bpm)

Ferris B · 05-06-2014 11:50AM

yaboya1 wrote: »

The HADD programme involves two Steady sessions (normally Tuesday & Friday) and one long run at the weekend, with the remainder of the week filled with easy miles. I think I read on a post here that the strides should be thrown in before the Steady sessions to retain speed? I pushed today's workout back a day as I was busy most of yesterday. I know it might seem a lot/difficult, but these are the most stressful sessions I do. All my other running is at 125-130bpm and I don't have any LT or VO2 Max days. These sessions can be hard to begin with when you originally move up to the required HR, but after a while they seem to take less and less effort. I'm going to do my long run on Friday this week and replace that Steady session with the 2400m test on Sunday. The whole idea is that eventually I will get to a stage where running at my marathon pace for 26.2 miles actually feels 'easy'. There is no timeframe though. Apparently it takes as long as it takes. I'm just hoping that in my case it now takes less than 17 weeks :pac:

Thanks Yaboya.

yaboya1 · 06-06-2014 08:56AM

Friday 6th June - 105 minutes Easy
12.19m @ 8:37/m average (125bpm avg)

An early morning start for this one. Happy enough with how it went. I've run the last six days in a row and on eleven of the last thirteen, so I'm going to give myself a rest day tomorrow to leave me as fresh as possible for my 2400m test on Sunday. The results of that should be interesting.

On another note, I've now moved onto 966 miles since January 1st, meaning I should hit 1000 before I run in Portumna next week. I'm pretty sure I've never run anywhere near that in a year before, never mind less than six months!
Now, off to find a few winners at Epsom over the next couple of days....:pac:

Splits:

Mile 1 - 8:28 (120bpm)
Mile 2 - 8:01 (125bpm)
Mile 3 - 8:15 (124bpm)
Mile 4 - 8:46 (125bpm)
Mile 5 - 8:54 (126bpm)
Mile 6 - 8:49 (126bpm)
Mile 7 - 8:57 (125bpm)
Mile 8 - 8:32 (124bpm)
Mile 9 - 8:32 (126bpm)
Mile 10 - 8:35 (126bpm)
Mile 11 - 8:41 (127bpm)
Mile 12 - 8:50 (126bpm)
0.19 - 1:41 (127bpm)

Beef · 06-06-2014 02:35PM

Enjoy the well earned break yaboya. You're having some year for sure.

yaboya1 · 09-06-2014 12:21AM

Sunday 8th June - HADD 2400m Test

Not really sure what to make of this. Some of the times are faster, some are slower. Positives and negatives to be taken from it I suppose. It's recommended that this is done when you're fresh and rested as if for a race, but alas that was not the case here. I was out drinking until 3am (sitting on a backless stool which has my back in ribbons), barely slept and played golf this afternoon, so fresh I most certainly was not. I almost put it off until tomorrow, but I really don't want to be stressing myself next week ahead of my race on Saturday. In the end I thought it better to get it out of the way tonight even if it was less than ideal.

Results are below:

2400m @ 120 bpm (Actual 120 bpm) - 9:17 min/mile average (previous: 8:57 @120)
2400m @ 130 bpm (Actual 130 bpm) - 8:22 min/mile average (previous: 8:27 @129)
2400m @ 140 bpm (Actual 139 bpm) - 7:31 min/mile average (previous: 7:37 @ 138)
2400m @ 150 bpm (Actual 150 bpm) - 6:47 min/mile average (previous: 6:48 @ 149)
2400m @ 160 bpm (Actual 160 bpm) - 6:20 min/mile average (previous: 6:08 @158)

The pace of the middle three intervals were a little bit quicker, while the other two were noticeably slower. I'm not sure why this is. You would expect them all to follow the same trend or even tail off at the higher end. Not very conclusive. Anyway, it's not something I'm going to worry about and one positive I will take from the session is the fact that I had no issue maintaining the HR/pace in any of them. This augurs particularly well for the 160bpm interval (despite the fact that it was slower than last time) as 6:20min/mile is my target pace next Saturday and I felt like I could continue moving at that speed for much longer (another 11.6 miles :pac:) if I needed to (even though I was tired/sore/hungover

).
Going to give myself a nice easy week before Portumna on Saturday. I'll probably follow a similar schedule to the week before I ran in Larne, as I felt that worked quite well.

Duanington · 09-06-2014 10:32AM

You're going well Yaboya1 - I wouldn't read a whole lot into that test to be honest, sounds like you were far from rested when doing it !

jebuz · 09-06-2014 10:39AM

What's this HADD test about yaboya, what's the purpose? Fair play you got the heart rates almost spot on, can't be easy

yaboya1 · 09-06-2014 12:22PM

jebuz wrote: »

What's this HADD test about yaboya, what's the purpose?

It's basically a test you're supposed to perform every six weeks or so to see how you're progressing, as if you're following the training properly you won't be running any faster than the Steady rate during that time.
However, I've been running races which is probably giving me a better guide tbh.
I must say that I didn't really prepare for yesterday in the right way though, so I probably shouldn't take a huge amount of notice of the results this time around.

jebuz wrote: »

Fair play you got the heart rates almost spot on, can't be easy

Can be a nightmare at times, especially for the lower ones but you get used to it.

ecoli · 09-06-2014 01:52PM

I wouldn't worry at the about the HR's being skewed. The dehydration from the alcohol was gonna elevate your HR even before you started the session and as such your were going to hit your low HR's quicker as well as topping out at alot slower paces.

These test's are a decent guide but the fact that you are racing takes alot of focus from them so I wouldn't worry as much as you say.

I would stress though that if you are to do these tests better to do them 100% fresh or not at all. These tests are to indicate when you are able to progress to Phase 2 of the training so as the plan progresses they become more important

yaboya1 · 09-06-2014 01:56PM

ecoli wrote: »

I wouldn't worry at the about the HR's being skewed. The dehydration from the alcohol was gonna elevate your HR even before you started the session and as such your were going to hit your low HR's quicker as well as topping out at alot slower paces.

These test's are a decent guide but the fact that you are racing takes alot of focus from them so I wouldn't worry as much as you say

Funny you should say that as I regularly hover around the 120bpm mark in some of my easy/recovery runs at sub 9 min/mile pace, yet after a mile of a warm up and a few strides I had to slow to 6min/km at one stage to keep it at that level. I knew at that early stage that it wasn't something I should worry about but thought it best to complete the whole session anyway. A good blowout if nothing else

.

yaboya1 · 09-06-2014 02:03PM

ecoli wrote: »

I would stress though that if you are to do these tests better to do them 100% fresh or not at all. These tests are to indicate when you are able to progress to Phase 2 of the training so as the plan progresses they become more important

I thought that myself after last night. I won't be doing it again off the back of a rough night.

yaboya1 · 09-06-2014 08:04PM

Monday 9th June - 45 minutes Recovery
5.12m @ 8:48/m average (116bpm avg)

Just a very easy recovery effort. I didn't feel like going out at all tonight, but thought this would serve me better than lying on the sofa. A good night's sleep now should hopefully set me up nicely for the little session I have planned for the morning.

Splits:

Mile 1 - 8:36 (112bpm)
Mile 2 - 8:49 (118bpm)
Mile 3 - 8:55 (118bpm)
Mile 4 - 8:46 (116bpm)
Mile 5 - 8:51 (118bpm)
0.12 - 1:03 (115bpm)

I think the splits and average pace prove how unreliable last night's results were:

Last night: 1.5m @ 120bpm - 9:17min/mile average
Tonight: 5m @ 116bpm - 8:48min/mile average

Moral of the story: DON'T DRINK AND RUN!

yaboya1 · 10-06-2014 09:48AM

Tuesday 10th June

I went with the same workout I did on the Tuesday before the Larne HM today. I really would have preferred to leave this until tomorrow, but that would have meant a day less to recover before Saturday, so I told myself to HTFU and get it done before work. Session was as follows:

1-mile warmup, 2-3 miles @ goal half marathon race pace, 1 mile easy, 5 x 1:00 “on”/1:00 “off” @ 10K race pace, 1-mile cooldown

Since I'm hoping to go sub 1:23 on Saturday, that meant the HMP miles would be around 6:20, while my target of sub 37 in my next 10k leaves me needing to hit 5:57min/mile pace there. Results are as follows:

1m wu - 7:42
HMP 1 - 6:16
HMP 2 - 6:15
HMP 3 - 6:15
1m cd- 8:46

5 x 1min @ 10k pace

1 - 5:19
2 - 5:46
3 - 5:54
4 - 5:54
5 - 5:54

I found the HMP miles difficult, but I think this is more down to fatigue than holding the required pace. I expect to be feeling much better after a rest and a couple of easy days before the race. I know I ran the 10k minutes segments too quick, but the Garmin was jumping all over the place for the first two due to tree cover. That made them hard to judge, while I got the last three pretty close. The whole session has left me with a lot of confidence. I got through it on target even though I was a bit tired beforehand and I actually felt good between the 10k segments, compared to V02 Max sessions at similar pace before Seville when I could barely walk in between reps!

Ferris B · 10-06-2014 09:52AM

yaboya1 wrote: »

Tuesday 10th June

I went with the same workout I did on the Tuesday before the Larne HM today. I really would have preferred to leave this until tomorrow, but that would have meant a day less to recover before Saturday, so I told myself to HTFU and get it done before work. Session was as follows:

1-mile warmup, 2-3 miles @ goal half marathon race pace, 1 mile easy, 5 x 1:00 “on”/1:00 “off” @ 10K race pace, 1-mile cooldown

Since I'm hoping to go sub 1:23 on Saturday, that meant the HMP miles would be around 6:20, while my target of sub 37 in my next 10k leaves me needing to hit 5:57min/mile pace there. Results are as follows:

1m wu - 7:42
HMP 1 - 6:16
HMP 2 - 6:15
HMP 3 - 6:15
1m cd- 8:46

5 x 1min @ 10k pace

1 - 5:19
2 - 5:46
3 - 5:54
4 - 5:54
5 - 5:54

I found the HMP miles difficult, but I think this is more down to fatigue than holding the required pace. I expect to be feeling much better after a rest and a couple of easy days before the race. I know I ran the 10k minutes segments too quick, but the Garmin was jumping all over the place for the first two due to tree cover. That made them hard to judge, while I got the last three pretty close. The whole session has left me with a lot of confidence. I got through it on target even though I was a bit tired beforehand and I actually felt good between the 10k segments, compared to V02 Max sessions at similar pace before Seville when I could barely walk in between reps!

super session. well done. planets are coming into alignment for the weekend.

Murph_D · 10-06-2014 11:52AM

That's quite a session alright (looks more like two sessions rolled into one to me).

yaboya1 · 11-06-2014 07:49PM

Wednesday 11th June - 45 minutes Recovery
5.09m @ 8:51/m average (119bpm avg)

I was hoping this would shake out any niggles in the legs as they were pretty sore last night after a long day. Took it nice and east along the coast. Feel pretty good now and hoping to get a decent night's sleep ahead of the same again tomorrow. That should take me past 1000 miles for the year, so I'll probably throw in a few strides at the end to celebrate :pac:. Rest day Friday ahead of Saturday's race.

Splits:

Mile 1 - 8:44 (116bpm)
Mile 2 - 8:48 (121bpm)
Mile 3 - 8:56 (119bpm)
Mile 4 - 8:52 (120bpm)
Mile 5 - 8:52 (121bpm)
0.09 - 0:49 (118bpm)

yaboya1 · 12-06-2014 12:30PM

Thursday 12th June - 45 minutes Recovery (with 6 x 100m Strides)
5.16m @ 8:44/m average (124bpm avg)

Strides: 19:19, 18:95, 19:18, 16:48, 16:98, 18:39

Another easy recovery run to take me past the 1000 mile mark for the year

. Threw in a few strides at the end just to make sure the legs were still working ahead of the weekend. Very humid out there yesterday & today. Sweat dripping off me doing nine minute miles!

Splits:

Mile 1 - 8:27 (120bpm)
Mile 2 - 8:56 (125bpm)
Mile 3 - 8:40 (126bpm)
Mile 4 - 8:51 (126bpm)
Mile 5 - 8:49 (126bpm)
0.16 - 1:20 (130bpm)

tang1 · 13-06-2014 10:00AM

Best of luck in the West tomorrow.

FBOT01 · 13-06-2014 10:25AM

tang1 wrote: »

Best of luck in the West tomorrow.

+1. Time to stop all your sandbagging and get out and give this one a good lash:P

ecoli · 13-06-2014 11:09AM

Best of luck man. Training has been well disciplined and this will be a good chance for you to be rewarded for that discipline.

A Slow Journey to Faster Times

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