World Cup 2014 Super Thread copyright warning #1645

K4t · 08-06-2014 12:18AM

x43r0 wrote: »

Welbeck works hard but talent wise he has no business in that team ahead of sterling

Welbeck is easily as good a footballer as Sterling. People have let the past season cloud their judgement a lot regarding both team and individual performances.

Ross Barkley is a phenomenal talent and almost reminds me of a younger Rooney, moreso in his attitude than style of play. Every time Barkley gets the ball you don't know what he'll do and it is this unpredictability to his game which Rooney (spray it out wide) has lacked for a quite a while now. Barkley is really knocking on the door to getting a place in the team.

Hank Scorpio · 08-06-2014 12:35AM

K4t wrote: »

Welbeck is easily as good a footballer as Sterling. People have let the past season cloud their judgement a lot regarding both team and individual performances.

He's not

If he was he'd have more than 30 goals in 140 appearances or whatever it is

Ferguson rly let the rot set in, in the united setup the last 3 or 4 years and that's why Wellbeck is even considered as a top striker, anyone who watches him knows the deal

Sturridge is the opposite had to work hard at clubs he was on loan and eventually he found his level, and kudos to him for not reacting tonight when the guy kicked the ball in his chest

Corholio · 08-06-2014 01:36AM

K4t wrote: »

Welbeck is easily as good a footballer as Sterling. People have let the past season cloud their judgement a lot regarding both team and individual performances.

Ross Barkley is a phenomenal talent and almost reminds me of a younger Rooney, moreso in his attitude than style of play. Every time Barkley gets the ball you don't know what he'll do and it is this unpredictability to his game which Rooney (spray it out wide) has lacked for a quite a while now. Barkley is really knocking on the door to getting a place in the team.

Barkley is talented but he's also unpredictable in the opposite way too, he gives away the ball fairly often or loses concentration when in possession, that will be punished lot more severely in a tournament like this. Lallana was the only one who stood out a little tonight, and that was really only for a small few pieces of skill.

K4t · 08-06-2014 02:04AM

nuxxx wrote: »

He's not

If he was he'd have more than 30 goals in 140 appearances or whatever it is

Still not a bad return for a player who plays most of his games on the left wing.

nuxxx wrote: »

Ferguson rly let the rot set in, in the united setup the last 3 or 4 years and that's why Wellbeck is even considered as a top striker, anyone who watches him knows the deal

United have won the league twice in the last four years, losing out on goal difference once too and Welbeck played a big role so not sure what point you're trying to make.

Anyone who watches him knows he is an immensely talented young footballer who the media and opposition fans have unfairly criticised for a few poor misses on goal which has been blown completely out of proportion with accusations of him being like Emile bloody Heskey. His overall play is as good as any of the top players in the premier league and his finishing is improving all the time. You have to wonder what the guy has done wrong to warrant this attack on his game. Suppose it comes with the territory of playing for a certain team.

K4t · 08-06-2014 02:14AM

mike65 wrote: »

Welbeck - seriously. Pass it.

Posts like these make me sigh. I presume it was in relation to the bursting run he made which ended in a goal kick? Because Welbeck is generally the most economical player on the team and gives possession away far less than Rooney, Sturridge or Lallana. But I suppose it's easier to see mistakes in those you are looking for them in. :rolleyes:

I don't see you mentioning the excellent through ball he made to Sturridge or his involvement which lead to Sturridge's chance which he should have scored? Or the three runs through on goal Welbeck made tonight for which the wrong option was made every time by the player in possession (Barkley/Wilshire/Baines)? No, that would be too logical and objective for a football fan.

Hank Scorpio · 08-06-2014 02:45AM

United winning the league had nothing to do with Wellbeck, he had 2 goals in 40 appearances the last time season they did

"anyone who watches him" I've watched every United game for I don't know how many seasons

Good athlete, horrible footballer. To even compare him or say hes a better player than Sturridge is baffling

K4t · 08-06-2014 02:51AM

nuxxx wrote: »

Good athlete, horrible footballer. To even compare him or say hes a better player than Sturridge is baffling

Welbeck is a more talented footballer than Sturridge. Sturridge has had a great season at Liverpool in fairness but I don't feel like he has much more to him and I think he will struggle to replicate his form next season. He is a better finisher than Welbeck right now but Welbeck's overall play is superior.

Hank Scorpio · 08-06-2014 02:56AM

K4t wrote: »

Welbeck is a more talented footballer than Sturridge. Sturridge has had a great season at Liverpool in fairness but I don't feel like he has much more to him and I think he will struggle to replicate his form next season. He is a better finisher than Welbeck right now but Welbeck's overall play is superior.

And what would that "overall play" consist of

K4t · 08-06-2014 03:02AM

nuxxx wrote: »

And what would that "overall play" consist of

Link up play, movement on and off the ball, ball retention and making the right passes under pressure. Granted he's not as good a dribbler as Sterling but that is the only area in which Sterling has the edge imo and Welbeck is not a bad dribbler either. I'm not tying to knock Sterling here or anything like a lot of people are doing with Welbeck. I simply believe Welbeck to be the better player and feel he has shown that time and again for club and country.

Neeson · 08-06-2014 03:03AM

Welbeck is OK. He can run.

Sturridge is a great talent. He can also run, but not as fast as Welbeck. I'd say Welbeck would beat him.

Welbeck is OK with a ball at his feet. Sturridge is better with a ball. If you have both men a ball I think Sturridge would use it better. Welbeck would lose it first.

Welbeck is fit. Sturridge is fit also. Welbeck is leaner though. Sturridge has a bit of bulk. Sturridge is a harder man. But Welbeck has a bit of a Peter Crouch effect but with less technical ability.

Hank Scorpio · 08-06-2014 03:09AM

K4t wrote: »

Link up play, movement on and off the ball, ball retention and making the right passes under pressure. Granted he's not as good a dribbler as Sterling but that is the only area in which Sterling has the edge imo and Welbeck is not a bad dribbler either. I'm not tying to knock Sterling here or anything like a lot of people are doing with Welbeck. I simply believe Welbeck to be the better player and feel he has shown that time and again for club and country.

You believe Welbeck to be better and has shown to be a better player than Sterling, have you missed the last 10 months?

What Link up play has Welbeck shown as a United striker/wide player and with what players? He had a single assist in the league last season.

He doesn't make the right passes under pressure, for United he often overruns the ball when the correct passes are on, whether that's a lack of vision or being greedy I don't know. Every United fan knows this.

His off the ball running is good, but I don't think its any better than Sterling or Sturridge or whoever.

Bedtime now have a good one...

duffman13 · 08-06-2014 03:22AM

K4t wrote: »

Link up play, movement on and off the ball, ball retention and making the right passes under pressure. Granted he's not as good a dribbler as Sterling but that is the only area in which Sterling has the edge imo and Welbeck is not a bad dribbler either. I'm not tying to knock Sterling here or anything like a lot of people are doing with Welbeck. I simply believe Welbeck to be the better player and feel he has shown that time and again for club and country.

I think your mixing up versatility with being a more complete footballer. Sterling is a better winger full stop. Welbeck may be more disciplined but sterling is a natural wide player. Close control would be Danny Welbecks biggest failing and you need that as a winger more than most things. I'm a fan of Welbeck but this argument is nonsense. Sterling is in form and playing well. Welbeck has experience which seems to be the only reason you think he should be starting

Iused2likebusts · 08-06-2014 08:17AM

Pro. F wrote: »

It's nothing to do with the stereotypical British centre-back. That line which is so often used to defend centre-backs from criticism is purely an attempt to discredit the critics. As if all we can understand of the CB's art is the winning of headers and making tackles. Pure bullshít.

Luiz being a shít CB has nothing to do with British CBs. He would be laughed out of the Italian squad as well. He is simply a dodgy CB playing on a strong team.

lol at the idea of Luiz being first choice on every PL team other than Arsenal and Chelsea too.

IMO He would play alongside kompany at city, Verthongen at Spurs and would be an upgrade at whats at liverpool and utd. He is hardly a **** CB 2 massive transfer fees paid for his services by people whose footballing opinion holds far more clout than mine or yours. As I said I think his mistakes get highlighted more than others this tends to happen in the PL a lot, DDG was getting fierce criticism for a few mistakes at the same time joe Hart was making as many mistakes and nothing was being said. Gerrard and Rooney get away with murder on the pitch and nothing is ever said. You think his criticism is justified thats fair enough I dont.

kfallon · 08-06-2014 08:25AM

Luiz was fantastic throughout the Confederations Cup last year!
Imo Brazil have the best defence in the tournament

greendom · 08-06-2014 08:33AM

kfallon wrote: »

Luiz was fantastic throughout the Confederations Cup last year!
Imo Brazil have the best defence in the tournament

Yes he's a different player when paired up with Thiago Silva. Not sure how much of that is down to playing alongside the best defender in the World.

tomaussie · 08-06-2014 08:37AM

Does anybody know what is wrong with Higuain or if he will be fit for the first game ?

wadacrack · 08-06-2014 08:51AM

Will rooney start for england? His form has bern very poor

greendom · 08-06-2014 09:11AM

wadacrack wrote: »

Will rooney start for england? His form has bern very poor

Nailed on to start.

wadacrack · 08-06-2014 09:21AM

greendom wrote: »

Nailed on to start.

That should have been.. Should rooney start based on his form. England have a few options who could play in the 10 behind Sturridge

greendom · 08-06-2014 10:56AM

wadacrack wrote: »

That should have been.. Should rooney start based on his form. England have a few options who could play in the 10 behind Sturridge

Fair point maybe not. I think his experience means he has to be in the starting line up against Italy though.

In other news if the injury to Lukaku proves to be serious Belgium go from dark horses to a bunch of old nags. Who'll play up front for them - Mirallas ?

Agueroooo · 08-06-2014 11:04AM

Johnson.
Rooney.
Welbeck ..

Need to to dropped if England have any chance. They are passengers out there and a big liability imo.

The hope in Rooney pulling off a moment of magic is the only thing keeping him in the side, and probably rightly so.
But if he doesn't pull anything out of the hat in the first couple of games in the group stages, and himself and the others just not putting it in are left in the team then it's home early for England for me.

Paully D · 08-06-2014 12:24PM

My England team would be (I'm baring in mind that Hodgson has and probably always will play 4-2-3-1 with England):

Hart

Johnson Cahill Jagielka Baines

Henderson Gerrard

Lallana

Sterling

Rooney

Sturridge

The full-backs are a weakness (yes, Baines included at this level) IMO but there's not really anything that can be done now.

Rooney would be one that questions have been asked of and I've questioned him myself (in terms of form and fitness) over the last couple of weeks, but at the end of the day I just can't find someone who should be in ahead of him in that position. Barkley would be a nice impact player off the bench but he's too raw at the minute, gives the ball away far too often and shoots when he should pass far too often to be a starter IMO. His time will come.

Hodgson himself will most likely field Welbeck, largely because he can trust him a bit more to help out defensively than either Sterling or Lallana, simply because he's seen him and been around him for England more. I would start the aforementioned duo, but I do understand why it can be difficult for managers to deviate from what they know at crucial times.

eagle eye · 08-06-2014 12:25PM

Rooney is well worth his place on that team. He is still a class act and can turn a game on its head on his own. I don't think there is another England player who can do that.

I don't like the idea of Sturridge as the main striker. He will score goals but I feel he offers a lot more as a wide forward.

Pro. F · 08-06-2014 12:36PM

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

He is hardly a **** CB 2 massive transfer fees paid for his services by people whose footballing opinion holds far more clout than mine or yours.

The fees spent by sugar daddy clubs carry zero weight. The fact that you let the fee spent by a sugar daddy club influence your opinion of a player explains how you've ended up with being so wrong on Luiz though.

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

As I said I think his mistakes get highlighted more than others this tends to happen in the PL a lot, DDG was getting fierce criticism for a few mistakes at the same time joe Hart was making as many mistakes and nothing was being said. Gerrard and Rooney get away with murder on the pitch and nothing is ever said. You think his criticism is justified thats fair enough I dont.

It sounds like you worry too much about what some faceless majority says rather than just watching players and forming your opinion.

kfallon wrote: »

Luiz was fantastic throughout the Confederations Cup last year!
Imo Brazil have the best defence in the tournament

I take it you missed the Uruguay game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bUXod2mYlE

Pro. F · 08-06-2014 12:59PM

Agueroooo wrote: »

Johnson.
Rooney.
Welbeck ..

Need to to dropped if England have any chance. They are passengers out there and a big liability imo.

The hope in Rooney pulling off a moment of magic is the only thing keeping him in the side, and probably rightly so.
But if he doesn't pull anything out of the hat in the first couple of games in the group stages, and himself and the others just not putting it in are left in the team then it's home early for England for me.

The problem for England, as always, is that their central midfield are not skilful enough to dominate possession. Gerrard and Henderson could do a job for Liverpool working from behind (in the case of Gerrard) or in (in the case of Henderson) the all-or-nothing attack. But that won't work in the heat or against the quality that you come against at the business end of a WC. And that's before you get to the fact that Liverpool had the perfect attacking player for that style of play and England don't.

I agree that Johnson and Welbeck shouldn't be starting. It's clear that Sterling and Clyne should be playing instead of them imo. Rooney is not so straightforward. I might have Barkley or Lallana at 10 instead of him, but I still think they would struggle and Sturridge and Rooney are even for me at centre-forward.

But if you made all those changes England would still struggle badly. Henderson and Gerrard is nowhere near a good enough combination in the engine room and that's the biggest problem.

Iused2likebusts · 08-06-2014 01:06PM

Pro. F wrote: »

The fees spent by sugar daddy clubs carry zero weight. The fact that you let the fee spent by a sugar daddy club influence your opinion of a player explains how you've ended up with being so wrong on Luiz though.

It sounds like you worry too much about what some faceless majority says rather than just watching players and forming your opinion.

Where do u get this stuff from. Obviously I form my own opinion as a lot of pundits ridicule Luiz.I don't feel I'm wrong we obviously look for different attributes in cbs. You prefer Dawson I prefer Luiz. Did you ever consider that maybe you could be wrong

Pro. F · 08-06-2014 01:12PM

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Where do u get this stuff from. Obviously I form my own opinion as a lot of pundits ridicule Luiz.I don't feel I'm wrong we obviously look for different attributes in cbs. You prefer Dawson I prefer Luiz. Did you ever consider that maybe you could be wrong

Ah yeah, of course. Sure I can see that the likes of Dawson has flaws too and the two of them come from different ends of the spectrum in terms of style. It just seemed that a lot of your post was about other people's opinions and reacting to those rather than the ability of the player.

K4t · 08-06-2014 01:25PM

Agueroooo wrote: »

Johnson.
Rooney.
Welbeck ..

Need to to dropped if England have any chance. They are passengers out there and a big liability imo.
.

Strange when he is one of the most players involved in play, whether through his link up play or winning of possession in all areas of the pitch. He's easily been more impressive than both Lallana and Rooney in the friendlies and on a par with Sturridge.

Paully D wrote: »

Hodgson himself will most likely field Welbeck, largely because he can trust him a bit more to help out defensively than either Sterling or Lallana, simply because he's seen him and been around him for England more. I would start the aforementioned duo, but I do understand why it can be difficult for managers to deviate from what they know at crucial times.

He picks Welbeck because he's an excellent footballer.

wadacrack · 08-06-2014 01:50PM

Yes true about Clyne. He has been very good for Southampton but it is just Shaw who recieves the plaudits. Clyne should have been picked ahead of Smalling

Agueroooo · 08-06-2014 01:50PM

Pro. F wrote: »

The problem for England, as always, is that their central midfield are not skilful enough to dominate possession. Gerrard and Henderson could do a job for Liverpool working from behind (in the case of Gerrard) or in (in the case of Henderson) the all-or-nothing attack. But that won't work in the heat or against the quality that you come against at the business end of a WC. And that's before you get to the fact that Liverpool had the perfect attacking player for that style of play and England don't.

I agree that Johnson and Welbeck shouldn't be starting. It's clear that Sterling and Clyne should be playing instead of them imo. Rooney is not so straightforward. I might have Barkley or Lallana at 10 instead of him, but I still think they would struggle and Sturridge and Rooney are even for me at centre-forward.

But if you made all those changes England would still struggle badly. Henderson and Gerrard is nowhere near a good enough combination in the engine room and that's the biggest problem.

I agree on the problems both Gerrard and Henderson playing bring, but I don't think it's chronic and a change of tact by the manager could resolve a lot of it.

Watching England reminds me of watching Liverpool say in '10/11.

Everything needs (and looks to be coached) to go through Gerrard.

He seems to be told that he must have 9 outfield players in front of him and his relationship is with those in front
Henderson seems to be told to push on a bit, but his main job is with his team mates behind, and get back if/when possession is lost. The guy looks terrified to get caught out.

Everyone else doesn't look to be playing with their own initiative and expressing themselves, but since whenever did a Roy Hodgson team ever promote style and flair?

If the shackles are not taken off and some players don't cop on then England could be a hiding away by a team that show any form and togetherness.

World Cup 2014 Super Thread copyright warning #1645

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