World Cup 2014 Super Thread copyright warning #1645

Vinz Mesrine wrote: »

Godin, Cavani, Caceres, Gaston, Rodriguez

Putting Gaston Ramirez in there isn't doing them any favours, I'm of the opinion that Uruguay will be the one to finish 3rd in that group.

I've a feeling it will be 1. Uruguay 2. England 3. Italy.

WRT Italy we can ignore friendlies and their traditionally bad buildups all we want, but I think there's got to be something genuinely wrong with at them moment? A team that can't win in 7 games, can't put away Luxembourg isn't going to make an impact at the WC.

Neeson wrote: »

Belgium and Tunisia on Setanta.

And it's live.

is it FTV?

Belgium Tunisia taking a break due to hailstones!

Pro. F wrote: »

Of course I'm serious about de Jong. He's a horrifically overrated player. He was not impressive with Milan this year, who were extremely poor overall. It might be a bit harsh to say that Carrick was better than him, considering this season's form, but Barry is definitely better than him and Cork and Britton are twice the player he is.

Cole is excellent defensively and good going forward. Marcelo is okay defensively (nothing more) and good going forward.

:eek:

De Jong had a great season for Milan despite not having much quality around him and was, imo, Milan's best, most consistent player this year.

Can't remember the last time I read something so wrong as the bit in bold. De Jong is infinitely better than Barry (who I think is good enough) and I wouldn't even be comparing the other two to him.

You either haven't seen much of NDJ or you have something against him because I can't understand how you could rate him so lowly.

Does anybody know if Spain vs El Salvador is on any UK tv station tonight?

Injuries and poor performances tonight aside I think we're seeing England's team vs Italy tonight vs Honduras. I thought Milner might play next week but I think he'd be playing tonight if so.

Hart

Johnson
Baines
Jagielka
Cahill

Henderson
Gerrard

Lallana
Rooney
Welbeck

Sturridge

Pro. F wrote: »

It's obvious Terry would come out of retirement if Roy had managed the situation well enough.

Cole was still excellent when he played. He is still a top class left-back. Cole is light years ahead of Evra who will be starting for France. And are you telling me that he is no better than any of the left-backs in the Argentina squad? Are you going to deny that Cole is better than these players?

Well if he's not available, he's not available?

I agree that Ashley Cole is better than the LB or other countries, however, that one fact is not near sufficient to prove your overall point.

Pro. F wrote: »

I'm not going to bother arguing about Luiz and Shawcross and Dawson with you.

That's fair, but I'd imagine most would agree that David Luiz at CB for Brazil is a far better option than Michael Dawson or Ryan Shawcross.

Pro. F wrote: »

I'd probably agree with all of that. What's the point of it?

The point of it is that we are talking about the available talent pool of England in comparison to other counties and this debate started off by me saying "To be fair, there are plenty of players not in other squads that are better than players in the English squad"

To which you said that the same could be said about players not in the English squad better than players in other squads.

Then the two main examples you gave to back up this point were Terry and Cole. Now i have stated that you could also say that Terry and Cole are also better than Shaw and Smalling/Jones. Do you follow me here?

You can't say England better players not in the squad like Terry and Cole who are better than the players other teams brought when they're also better than the players England brought?

Pro. F wrote: »

I didn't see a lot of Milan and de Jong, but any time I did he was at the same standard as I have come to expect. Poor first touch and weak passing are his biggest flaws. He can hit some nice long passes which can be impressive, but that doesn't come close to making up for his poor touch and how he occasionally misplaces easy short passes. He was also poor positionally when defending, but I'd put that more down to the bad management situation at the club.

The fact that you think Britton and Cork are so poor just shows that we are never going to agree on central midfielders. You either don't rate touch and control as an important skill for the position or you aren't able to judge it. Either way I suspect that we would disagree on the abilities of most central midfielders.

I agree about De Jong, his shocking pass completion rate of 91.4% this season has let him down. You're talking absolute rubbish. In 2010-11, De Jong also had the highest pass completion rate out of any player in the Premiership. He is an accomplished passer of the ball and his positioning is also very good.

Milan's lack of cohesion should have hindered him a lot more than it did this season because of the type of player that he is but yet he still managed to be their best player. He will be integral to Holland's chances in Brazil.

And I never once said that I thought Britton or Cork were poor players, they just aren't near the same quality of De Jong imo.

Penalty! La Roja start quick, Costa shows exactly what he offers to this side, his run in behind El Salvador is the directness needed at times.

Fabregas misses the penalty by a long way though.

batistuta9 wrote: »

it's FTV on setanta sports 1 at 4am

Ye I saw that, can't believe they aren't showing it live.

Pro. F wrote: »

I agree that Luiz is better served playing in a possession dominating team as his footballing skills are useful. But he is a liability defensively, there's no two ways about it. He has made a lot more than a few errors. He'll be covered by playing alongside Thiago Silva, with Brazil dominating possession and pressing high. But he will still be a weak link in their team.

.

I think his defensive weaknesses and the mistakes he makes are massively overstated as he doesnt suit the image of a stereotypical British CB. I think luiz would be one of the two first choice CBs at every club in the PL bar Chelsea and Arsenal. Then outside of england I could see him comfortably playing CB at nearly all of the european superpowers.

A note for those without ITV/BBC who want to view it or who don't want to use lower quality streams - if you use Chrome, download an extension called ZenMate. It's an excellent extension which allows you to change your IP address and will give you BBC iPlayer and ITV Player, which shows the games they are carrying live, online and in excellent quality. It's only going to be free for a certain period of time, but we may get the World Cup out of it.

Vinz Mesrine wrote: »

You don't seem to be missing too much judging by the current scoreline.

I'm watching it through other means. On the contrary, there has been a lot to see and a lot to learn.

Smithwicks Man wrote: »

Well if he's not available, he's not available?

Except that it's obvious Terry would come out of retirement if Roy had managed the situation well enough. Go on sticking your fingers in your ears there and just pretending that he couldn't have been called up if asked and managed properly. It's a piss poor argument.

Smithwicks Man wrote: »

That's fair, but I'd imagine most would agree that David Luiz at CB for Brazil is a far better option than Michael Dawson or Ryan Shawcross.

I'm not interested in what most people's opinions are on any particular football matter. The fans, journalists and pundits who don't have a clue are in the overwhelming majority. I'm happy to form my opinions without regard to what most people think.

Smithwicks Man wrote: »

The point of it is that we are talking about the available talent pool of England in comparison to other counties and this debate started off by me saying "To be fair, there are plenty of players not in other squads that are better than players in the English squad"

To which you said that the same could be said about players not in the English squad better than players in other squads.

Then the two main examples you gave to back up this point were Terry and Cole. Now i have stated that you could also say that Terry and Cole are also better than Shaw and Smalling/Jones. Do you follow me here?

You can't say England better players not in the squad like Terry and Cole who are better than the players other teams brought when they're also better than the players England brought?

If you repeat the process that we just went through using Shaw, Smalling and Jones instead of Cole and Terry you will still find players that they are better than, going to the tournament with some of the big nations.

As I've said since, your "To be fair, there are plenty of players not in other squads that are better than players in the English squad" could be said about a good few of the big international squads. If you compare the weaknesses of one international squad, to all the other international squads then you will find those match ups. It is a convoluted and ineffective way of assessing the depth of talent available.

Smithwicks Man wrote: »

I agree about De Jong, his shocking pass completion rate of 91.4% this season has let him down. You're talking absolute rubbish. In 2010-11, De Jong also had the highest pass completion rate out of any player in the Premiership. He is an accomplished passer of the ball and his positioning is also very good.

Milan's lack of cohesion should have hindered him a lot more than it did this season because of the type of player that he is but yet he still managed to be their best player. He will be integral to Holland's chances in Brazil.

And I never once said that I thought Britton or Cork were poor players, they just aren't near the same quality of De Jong imo.

Pass completion stats without context are a rubbish way of judging central midfielders. They end up making people think that Carrick is better than Xabi Alonso.

A pass that puts a centre-back in trouble or slows a building attack is still counted as a completed pass. A pass where the CM drops between the CBs to do their job for them (playing easy passes under no pressure from deep) and achieves fúck all is still counted as a completed pass. A CM who doesn't have the skill to demand the ball when closely marked, turn on it and pass to the free team-mate, so taking his markers out of the game, can still rack up good pass completion numbers.

You think that Britton and Cork are poor enough as to not even be worth comparing to de Jong. That's what I meant by "so poor".